Will She or Won't She? Will Sasha be at SA Next Week?

[Katty52]

[quote=iceman;362998]

Originally Posted by AMAubert

But I went to the Stars On Ice that billed Sasha as their transcendent star. Not only was the place more than half empty you could have heard a pin drop when she skated.

I don't think you can blame the half empty seats solely on Sasha. If you remember, the last year Michelle skated with COI, there were lots of vacant seats at the shows and scheduled cities were dropped from the schedule due to lack of interest .In fact, COI went out of business in 2007. Figure skating just doesn't have a large fan base the way many other sports do. At the recent NHK trophy, some of the events had many vacant seats and that is in a country that is suppose to be very interested in the sport.

I know that SOI and COI aren't comps but don't you think that CoP has killed interest in Figure Skating? It is way to hard to understand this point system. If only Speedy would listen to Sonia B. and make some major changes before FS becomes a lost sport.

[AMAubert]

Originally Posted by Katty52

I know that SOI and COI aren't comps but don't you think that CoP has killed interest in Figure Skating? It is way to hard to understand this point system. If only Speedy would listen to Sonia B. and make some major changes before FS becomes a lost sport.

Yes definitely COP is killing the sport. But not so much because of the complication of the scoring as what it is doing to the actual skating. Most are skating cookie cutter programs, ignoring the music to focus on jamming in the points. Most footwork sequences crawl across the ice as skaters replace flow with complicated steps they can't do very well. And then there are the BILLION bad Bielmans. Really if I wanted to fix this sport the first thing I would do is ban blade grabbing.

Focusing on raking up points instead of skating clean, coherent musical programs is why COP is killing the sport.

[Deetlebug]

Originally Posted by AMAubert

... ignoring the music to focus on jamming in the points.

That hits the nail on the head!!!

There is no 'performance' in any program any more. Its just like watching someone run through their program in practice.

Last night I rewatched Michelle's 1996 Worlds sp and lp - what I consider to be her breakthrough season - not so much because of her wins, but instead because of the performance level that kicked in. Lori N. really chose beautiful music and choreographed Michelle's programs perfectly down to every single note and the upbeats in between. She of course needed a phenomenal skater to be able to 'pull it off', but Michelle was exactly that skater. She gave incredible life to Lori's excellent work. I think too many of what we view as Lori's less than stellar programs now have more to do the the skaters' inabilities than with Lori's choreography sliding into the not-so-good range.

Either way, skating is just kind of blah now.

[skatesindreams]

I think that you are correct.
Programs look - and are - better when you have a skater who has mastered whatever elements might be required.

[kwanatic712]

That's one of the reasons I really like Yu-Na. She has found a way to blend the Golden Era of skating with this COP Era in a way that no one else has.

I respect her ability to balance all aspects of the program: the jumps, the musicality, the choreography, the elements...but most importantly, the performance. She's in character when she skates and usually looks like she's enjoying herself, which was one of the first things that made me take notice of her when she skated her SP in 2007 at worlds. I was like, "who is this girl with all of this expression?" I had never seen her before and I was just blown away; I hadn't seen anyone connect to and feel the music like that since Michelle (I don't count Sasha's theatrics...it never seemed genuine; it always felt staged). Yu-Na's not as good at it as Michelle (no one ever will be...) but she feels the music when she skates and you can always see it in her face. That's why I never understood the criticisms of Yu-Na when people said she looked dead when she skated. Go look at any picture of her during a performance; in every picture you'll see her face in character.

That's something that a lot of skaters have trouble doing. Caroline is horrible at feeling the music until the end of her program. If she's done well, she comes alive a bit at the end of her program but she's usually kinda glossed over when she skates. Rachael tries but her expression can't get beyond the boards which is one of the reasons I find her so boring...her SP at GW earlier this year was the only time I was actually into her performance. One of the only improvements I've seen in Mao this year is her expression is better during certain parts of her LP. But connecting all of the elements is a problem for most of the skaters which is why everything comes out so uninspiring and essentially the same. There's no performance anymore. It's skate, jump, skate, spin, skate, jump, skate, COP spiral, skate...it get's very boring very fast. Yu-Na, IMO, is the only exception to that right now...and maybe Akiko Suzuki. I say that because going back and watching her programs, she's never lacked for expression. Sometimes her jumps have been off and her other elements aren't as polished but she is always in character and always into the music; I both admire and enjoy that...

I think COP has stripped a lot from the sport but I think it's added some good things as well. I'm getting used to it anyway...I still think if they made the scoring a bit more viewer-friendly people would be a lot more understanding when they see a skater land every jump and then end up in 6th place. We never know that the jump is UR or has received a "e" or "!" until we go online and check the protocols for ourselves. They should come up with a way to clue the viewer in on how the scores were configured...

[Dragonlady]

Originally Posted by kwanatic712

They should come up with a way to clue the viewer in on how the scores were configured...

The commentators on the CBC tell us when a jump is under-rotated or there's an edge issue, but then our commentator is a certified ISU Technical Specialist and can spot these things. When the scores come up, they seem to have instant access to the protocols and they'll confirm that the jump has been downgraded, etc. I notice when I watch YouTube clips, that Nicky and Chis from Eurosport do the same thing.

Anyone at the network can scan a protocol for the < downgrade symbol or the ! or e edge calls and feed the information to the commentators, but the US networks just cannot be bothered to do that. I don't know why.

[berthesghost]

Originally Posted by kwanatic712

We never know that the jump is UR or has received a "e" or "!" until we go online and check the protocols for ourselves.

What have you been watching? On UniversalSport, Paul wouldn't friggin shut up about it. And the edge call was particularly annoying for anyone who follows the sport, since skaters generally either do it or they don't. Thanks for pointing out Ashley's flutz Paul, she's only flutzed every single Lutz she ever friggin did.

[prudence]

Originally Posted by amaubert

...ban blade grabbing....

Focusing on raking up points instead of skating clean, coherent musical programs is why cop is killing the sport.

Well said!

[Matiara]

Originally Posted by Dragonlady

The commentators on the CBC tell us when a jump is under-rotated or there's an edge issue, but then our commentator is a certified ISU Technical Specialist and can spot these things. When the scores come up, they seem to have instant access to the protocols and they'll confirm that the jump has been downgraded, etc. I notice when I watch YouTube clips, that Nicky and Chis from Eurosport do the same thing.

Anyone at the network can scan a protocol for the < downgrade symbol or the ! or e edge calls and feed the information to the commentators, but the US networks just cannot be bothered to do that. I don't know why.

Universal Sports does. They even put up a chart showing the points that Mirai lost due to underrotated jumps vs. what they were worth in base value after her long program at COC. As berthesghost said, Paul Wylie does talk about levels, edge calls, GOE, etc. incessantly. Peter Carruthers does as well. With that being said, not everyone gets Universal Sports here.

[kwanatic712]

Originally Posted by berthesghost

What have you been watching? On UniversalSport, Paul wouldn't friggin shut up about it. And the edge call was particularly annoying for anyone who follows the sport, since skaters generally either do it or they don't. Thanks for pointing out Ashley's flutz Paul, she's only flutzed every single Lutz she ever friggin did.

Originally Posted by Matiara

Universal Sports does. They even put up a chart showing the points that Mirai lost due to underrotated jumps vs. what they were worth in base value after her long program at COC. As berthesghost said, Paul Wylie does talk about levels, edge calls, GOE, etc. incessantly. Peter Carruthers does as well. With that being said, not everyone gets Universal Sports here.

I watch IN coverage and most of the time there is no commentary at all. I guess I need to start watching Universal Sports. The NBC coverage of the TEB and whichever others they showed, Scott and whoever else that was would comment something like "Oh, that may have been UR" or something like that and sometimes they would say that something was UR or "e" before the next skater goes. I really think they should flash a copy of the protocols on the screen when they put up the scores. Most of us know how to read them by now and that would help...

I'll just start watching Universal Sports I guess...

[Dragonlady]

We don't have Universal Sports in Canada. Only NBC. We have CBC and CBC Bold, CBC.ca and SkateBuzz. The CBC (Main Network) is most like NBC with Tracy Wilson doing PBP and Kurt Browning doing analysis.

CBC Bold (digital cable channel), has full coverage of Worlds and Major Events including every single skater. PBP is by PJ Kwong. The mind boggles at the endless hours that woman puts in at Worlds, without blathering, stumbling, or missing stuff.

CBC.ca has the CBC Bold coverage in live streaming.

SkateBuzz is live streaming the GP events with no commentary. I'm in heaven or rather I would be if they had better picture quality so that I could run it through my TV.

[Sparks]

Paul does a pretty good job of explaining COP, imo.

[Matiara]

Originally Posted by Dragonlady

We don't have Universal Sports in Canada. Only NBC. We have CBC and CBC Bold, CBC.ca and SkateBuzz. The CBC (Main Network) is most like NBC with Tracy Wilson doing PBP and Kurt Browning doing analysis.

CBC Bold (digital cable channel), has full coverage of Worlds and Major Events including every single skater. PBP is by PJ Kwong. The mind boggles at the endless hours that woman puts in at Worlds, without blathering, stumbling, or missing stuff.

CBC.ca has the CBC Bold coverage in live streaming.

SkateBuzz is live streaming the GP events with no commentary. I'm in heaven or rather I would be if they had better picture quality so that I could run it through my TV.

I get the CBC main network since it's part of standard cable in the Seattle area. I watch the coverage on both networks just for the different perspectives.

[gratefulmkfan]

Originally Posted by Matiara

I get the CBC main network since it's part of standard cable in the Seattle area. I watch the coverage on both networks just for the different perspectives.

So now I'm thinking of moving both north and cross-country.

You're a very lucky lady, enjoy it!

[Dragonlady]

Originally Posted by Matiara

I get the CBC main network since it's part of standard cable in the Seattle area. I watch the coverage on both networks just for the different perspectives.

I do that too. Also, the US coverage has skaters they didn't show in Canada if I'm not able to get the full event live streaming and even if I am, so I get to see more of the programs. I'm saving all of the programs to my PVR. NBC gave me the great gift of Virtue & Moir's FD with no commentary.

We bought a new Sony Bravia top-of-the-line 46" HD with a German home theatre system, in September. It's like sitting on the ice to watch the skating. I'm supposed to be able to hook my computer up to the TV but I haven't got it figured out yet.

With all of the stuff they can do with the new TV's, I wish they'd make commentary an option.

[Shiprock]

Wish I had Universal Sports but its not available in my area. So, I only have the limited NBC 2 hour for TV coverage. I would rather have more of the TV coverage than internet so I can see the better picture quality and without the computer glitches. The plus side of icenetwork is the live coverage, seeing all the skaters, no commentary or commercials (until Skate America, that is (but I kind of expected that they would jump all over it to promote it for Olympics). Comcast has been installing cables thru the spring/summer for hi definition tv and internet so I might finally start looking for a hi def. receiver with a flat screen tv for the upcoming V. Olympics.