JGPF Results

[bardtoob]

[URL="http://www.isufs

[iceman]

Somehow I forgot how good Rachel is. I guess the others get talked about so much that others get lost. She certainly will be a stong contender at Nationals. Maybe this time she won't get screwed on her 3/3.

[Dragonlady]

I highly doubt that anyone who isn't age eligible for Worlds will get a fair shake at Nationals. The USFSA has a long history of making the results "come out right". It would be better if they would just let whoever deserves the medals get them and then name whoever they want to the Worlds team, but basically it's what they do anyway.

[iceman]

Gee, Dragonlady, I guess I should have known it was that way, but I didn't. Don't you think that will be more difficult to pull off this year without causing an uproar? I actually expect one of the underage ones to win the gold from what I have seen this season. The age restriction needs to be dropped imo. If a skater can compete as a senior at Nationals and in the GPS, i see no worthy reason to eliminate them from Worlds or the Olympics.

[berthesghost]

Originally Posted by Dragonlady

I highly doubt that anyone who isn't age eligible for Worlds will get a fair shake at Nationals. The USFSA has a long history of making the results "come out right". It would be better if they would just let whoever deserves the medals get them and then name whoever they want to the Worlds team, but basically it's what they do anyway.

Then why did they go thru the charade of giving NNN and Sasha silver medals in '99 and '00. Didn't those judges read the unofficial rule book?

Giving the youngins the medals while letting the older skaters go serves two purposes, IMO. 1. it establishes the kids as up-and-comers in the viewers eyes, as well as the judges who hear of the results, so that next year they can hit the ground running and go to worlds as established "stars-in-training" not newbies. and 2. it sends the older gals a message: " you best get your act together if you ever want to make a team again. This year's a free pass, next year you're on your own"

[aaronts]

BG, ITA.

there are some who seriously felt Michelle should have been marked down more after her SP at '00 Nationals. maybe she should have. still, she won the LP fair enough & ended up 3 more World Titles & 5 medals total after that Nationals. but that was Michelle...

i've always enjoyed Rachel's skating. i expected her to beat out Alissa & Bebe easily this season. i do wonder what will happen with her if she skates better than Kimmie & Emily though~

[PurDiver]

What? She'll never skate better than the USFSA's darling. In their Eyes, Emily could be a world medalist.

[berthesghost]

Originally Posted by PurDiver

What? She'll never skate better than the USFSA's darling. In their Eyes, Emily could be a world medalist.

I don't think so. A media darling who will potentially put butts in seats? yes. But I think they're counting on Kimmie bringing home the medals. Emily's just to pull in the punters. JMHO.

[amielou]

Originally Posted by iceman

Gee, Dragonlady, I guess I should have known it was that way, but I didn't. Don't you think that will be more difficult to pull off this year without causing an uproar? I actually expect one of the underage ones to win the gold from what I have seen this season. The age restriction needs to be dropped imo. If a skater can compete as a senior at Nationals and in the GPS, i see no worthy reason to eliminate them from Worlds or the Olympics.

I don't see a problem with the idea of age restrictions, the problem is not being consistent. If they are eligible for the GPS, they should be eligible for Worlds and the Olympics. It serves no purpose to keep them out of just those two competitions. The limit either needs to be 14 for everything or 15 for everything--either way, it should be consistent for all competitions.

I won't be surprised if one of the young ones outskates Emily and Kimmie and gets held down anyway. They'll use the PCS marks to make sure those two stay in the medals. The next two years, with all those girls fully eligible will be a different story, especially for Emily.

[berthesghost]

The age restriction rule isn't working.

The first quad was done on the junior level and never again.

Jr world champ YuNa made her senior debut with a major injury.

If the idea is to keep the growing bodies from damage due to overtraining, it's a dismal all out failure from the get go.

[amielou]

Originally Posted by berthesghost

The age restriction rule isn't working.

The first quad was done on the junior level and never again.

Jr world champ YuNa made her senior debut with a major injury.

If the idea is to keep the growing bodies from damage due to overtraining, it's a dismal all out failure from the get go.

That's true. Limiting the jumps they can compete with isn't going to work either, because they will still train them. Unfortunately, the task of keeping growing bodies from overtraining has to be left to parents and coaches--who don't always exercise common sense about it.

If it's to keep the pressures of celebrity (which are clearly an issue for skaters like Yu-Na and Mao) from overwhelming them, it might be working a bit, but not enough as juniors gets more and more attention from fans. (Although, maybe the state of our senior ladies is what has led American fans to begin looking at juniors with so much interest?)

[lillyfly]

Originally Posted by amielou

I don't see a problem with the idea of age restrictions, the problem is not being consistent. If they are eligible for the GPS, they should be eligible for Worlds and the Olympics. It serves no purpose to keep them out of just those two competitions. The limit either needs to be 14 for everything or 15 for everything--either way, it should be consistent for all competitions.

I agree that it should be consistent.

[WorldsGreatestMK]

With the JGPF done, I am scared to see who they will send to the jr world team. No matter if Angela wins the Junior Nationals, I know that, it is going to result in them sending, Mirui, Caroline and Rachelle. ~KJ

[gypsyteller]

Caroline is not going to junior world team by the way.

[ceap]

Originally Posted by gypsyteller

Caroline is not going to junior world team by the way.

You mean Senior Worlds. She isn't old enough for Senior Worlds, but I'm sure she is going to Jr. Worlds

[Dragonlady]

Originally Posted by amielou

That's true. Limiting the jumps they can compete with isn't going to work either, because they will still train them. Unfortunately, the task of keeping growing bodies from overtraining has to be left to parents and coaches--who don't always exercise common sense about it.

If it's to keep the pressures of celebrity (which are clearly an issue for skaters like Yu-Na and Mao) from overwhelming them, it might be working a bit, but not enough as juniors gets more and more attention from fans. (Although, maybe the state of our senior ladies is what has led American fans to begin looking at juniors with so much interest?)

When you watch young skaters, the kids who get the most ice time and the most coaching progress the fastest. Parents don't want their child to fall behind their peers so the temptation to over-train is hard to resist. Coaches income is tied to training time so they're hardly a disinterested party.

The internet fan contingent may be well aware of the rising young juniors but if you asked your family, (non-skating obsessed) friends and co-workers, I'm sure not one of them has any idea who Caroline Zhang or Mirai Nagasu might be. We also haven't had the past few Olympic Champions retiring due to injury or imploding with alcohol problems. Both were public relations nightmares for the sport because it presented an image that skating eats its young. In the late 90's, I had many parents say they would never let their daughter become a figure skater because it's too much pressure on young girls.

[bekalc]

Originally Posted by Dragonlady

When you watch young skaters, the kids who get the most ice time and the most coaching progress the fastest. Parents don't want their child to fall behind their peers so the temptation to over-train is hard to resist. Coaches income is tied to training time so they're hardly a disinterested party.

The internet fan contingent may be well aware of the rising young juniors but if you asked your family, (non-skating obsessed) friends and co-workers, I'm sure not one of them has any idea who Caroline Zhang or Mirai Nagasu might be. We also haven't had the past few Olympic Champions retiring due to injury or imploding with alcohol problems. Both were public relations nightmares for the sport because it presented an image that skating eats its young. In the late 90's, I had many parents say they would never let their daughter become a figure skater because it's too much pressure on young girls.

Well, I'd rather have my kid be a figure skater than a gymnast. From what I read though Mirai Nagasu, trains a lot, but not a whole lot, she has pretty limited hours.. Someone said that when Mirai trains she trains. She doesn't spend tons of time crying, or saying I don't want to practice today. Apparently a lot of kids who "overtrain" do this.

[aaronts]

kids in lots of sports train hard. there are pressures for all young athletes who take a serious stance on competing. that's how we get the Kwans, Williamses & Woods. there's a reason why they're called "elite". most don't have the goods to reach that level. that's a fact.

still, i say that figure skating & gymnastics are far less forgiving than tennis for instance. you can take a head-case tennis player who may pull off a few good wins when they have some playing time. you have 2 or 3 sets as a junior player at most. within those sets, there's plenty of time to correct wrongs. FS is pretty much all training. if you're not strong mentally or physically, you get nothing. it's tough. i wouldn't say i wouldn't let a child of mine become a FS especially if they wanted to, but aside from the EXPENSE, it's not your everyday sport (physically, mentally or financially)~

[Dragonlady]

Originally Posted by bekalc

Someone said that when Mirai trains she trains. She doesn't spend tons of time crying, or saying I don't want to practice today. Apparently a lot of kids who "overtrain" do this.

We had a very talented kid at our club who would hide out in the dressing room. I used to feel sorry for the kid.

[missmarysgarden]

Mental toughness, burning desire, and great talent make a great competitive athlete. It takes it all, but an athlete who has mental toughness and burning desire can often pass the more talented. Talent alone - not so much. Shrinking violets should hang em up...its hard to imagine that a skater who hides in the locker room belongs in the sport at all. its not a winner's posture, and you sure can't claim he does it for the fun of it....

[gypsyteller]

Originally Posted by ceap

You mean Senior Worlds. She isn't old enough for Senior Worlds, but I'm sure she is going to Jr. Worlds

If I am right, to send Jr worlds, they have to competiting in USA national Jr. Caroline just competiting senior rank now so I don't think that she will be going to Jr world. Even not senior world because of her age. We will see her next year then.

[Dragonlady]

I agree MMG. In spite of the talent and the long hours her mother had her practice, the girl never made it out of Sectionals. Top 4 moved on. She regularly finished 5th, even though she won every event leading up to Sectionals. One of the most brilliant cases of self-sabotage I've ever seen.

We were all waiting to see what would happen when she hit puberty. Sure enough, she quit skating.

[Mokesh]

If I am right, to send Jr worlds, they have to competiting in USA national Jr. Caroline just competiting senior rank now so I don't think that she will be going to Jr world.

Most years at least some (and often all) of the skaters who go to Jr. Worlds competed at Sr. Nats. Last year's Ladies were the exception, rather than the rule.

[berthesghost]

Originally Posted by amielou

That's true. Limiting the jumps they can compete with isn't going to work either, because they will still train them. Unfortunately, the task of keeping growing bodies from overtraining has to be left to parents and coaches--who don't always exercise common sense about it.

If it's to keep the pressures of celebrity (which are clearly an issue for skaters like Yu-Na and Mao) from overwhelming them, it might be working a bit, but not enough as juniors gets more and more attention from fans. (Although, maybe the state of our senior ladies is what has led American fans to begin looking at juniors with so much interest?)

I find it hard to look at Mao and YuNa's senior careers thus far and not feel that the hype and pressure they got as juniors is a source of their current "troubles".

Originally Posted by dragonlady

I agree MMG

*smack* OUCH! My chin just hit the desktop when my mouth dropped open!

Originally Posted by bekalc

She doesn't spend tons of time crying, or saying I don't want to practice today.

Oh give it a rest.

[bekalc]

Originally Posted by berthesghost

I find it hard to look at Mao and YuNa's senior careers thus far and not feel that the hype and pressure they got as juniors is a source of their current "troubles".*smack* OUCH! My chin just hit the desktop when my mouth dropped open! Oh give it a rest.

Huh? I wasn't specifically referring to anyone when I made that comment. I was just stating that I heard in general that sometimes what happens when a kid is pushed to much, that a lot of practice time is spent lollygagging around...I really wasn't trying to slam anyone. It's not like I said well skater B works really hard but skater N she cries all the time.

And what current troubles does Yu-na Kim have, exactly. Sure she's dealing with injuries who isn't. But she just set a world record, and nobody has been skating better then her. Mao's having some issues sure, but I think there is probably more to those issues than just the pressure as a Junior.