Irina being bad sport abt grand prix

[iceman]

Can u believe Irina is being a bad sport abt losing to Asada--going so far as to say sarcastically that she didn't lose.http://www.topix.net/skating/us

[BumbledBee]

iceman, I can't believe she actually said that! It just amazes me when athletes say things of that nature to the media. Being sarcastic around friends and family is one thing, but playing the poor sport in a media circus is quite another. I hope the international skating community sees Irina for who she really is now. If they do, maybe we'll be lucky enough to never see her show us how to successfully do a beilmann (sp?) during the commercial breaks! :)

[adri]

Before assuming anything, do you know what question Irina was reacting to?

[lavender]

Before assuming anything, do you know what question Irina was reacting to?

Do you know?

[BumbledBee]

Slutskaya hit six high and strong triples to flamenco music. But she complained about her program component scores.

"In other meets I had 64, 63," she said. "Here I got 60. Same program, same dress."

Slutskaya wasn't that disappointed.

"For me this competition is not really important," she said. "It is just another step in going to Turin."

I found this in the article at usfsa.org. Maybe the judges finally decided that they just couldn't ethically inflate Irina's scores anymore. At least Irina is no longer "unbeatable," which I think is a wonderful sign going into the Olympics!

[adri]

The journalist quoted 3 sentences out of context and what question Irina was reacting to we don't know, so don't assume anything.

[beegirllw]

Uh hello, this belongs in spoilers there are people who want to wait till it airs

[TopModelAthletePolling]

Mao's win is good to know. Now, fans have something interesting to watch for GP. After all of GP events, I'm finally interested to watch this one. She must be really happy that Mao can't go to Torino. That is just sick!

[tammym59]

I am another person that dosen't get spoiled, and you just ruined the women's final for me. Thanks a lot, I don't go to the spoilers for this very reason. If I had wanted to know who won early, I would have gone to the right place, s-p-o-i-l-e-r-s is where this belonged.

[millenniummagicz]

of course Irina didnt lose. She won the Silver medal!!! That is fantastic!! Remember when MK said she "won" her silver?

p.s. i am being sarcastic if anyone is confused...

[wildfire1922]

The journalist quoted 3 sentences out of context and what question Irina was reacting to we don't know, so don't assume anything.

Sorry, adri, but this statement:


For me this competition is not really important. It is just another step in going to Turin."

is in every article. I don't know about the "I didn't lose" statement, but the above quote really denounces all the skaters who took this competition as serious and important. Irina would have thought the competition was important had she won the gold medal at the GPF, but she didn't and so it isn't important. That's just disrespectful of all the skaters who DID think it was important, especially to the other Japanese ladies.

[adri]

She said, "for me", so she's talking about herself.

[millenniummagicz]

of course its not important to Irina. Maybe ISU secretly gave the Gold medal to Irina already as a safety deposit, so she wouldnt quit and keep competing for ISU.

[YankeesSuck01]

Didn't you hear? Everytime Irina says something obnoxious it is misquoted:lol

[Kabooke]

The journalist quoted 3 sentences out of context and what question Irina was reacting to we don't know, so don't assume anything.
:lol

That's right, you only assume when
it's Michelle. :P

Troll on! :silly

[Disciple of KWAN]

adri, i love you...i don't think any forum can be complete without a poster like you, lol...

keep it up

Oh and irina is an awful sport, i mean her face while shaking mao's hand was disgusting!!!

it was like..."OH, you won...**** you!"

[iceman]

When I went back to the site where I had read the article, it had been replaced by 4 other articles. In the article I read, which I will try to find again, it was reported that Irina said sarcastically that she had not lost; she questioned her presentation remarks in light of what she has been receiving and made the statement that the competition was not important for her. Since the article was viewed 3 or 4 hours ago, I thought everyone interested would know; however, I should have put it in spoilers. Don't get me wrong, there is much I admire abt Irina, but I was taken aback by her saying the things she did. I would think the question asked would be something to the effect as to what her reaction to the outcome was.

[xAranjuez]

Irina has never handled defeat well . . . ever. Her being a sore loser doesn't suprise me in the least. I don't mean to sound as antagonistic as I do, but it is what it is. I don't think she's a bad person, but she's very boastful about her victories (and has been in all the interviews I've seen) and has a tendency to pout when she loses.

[Krista]

Not sure if this was in the same article, but I found this in an article on that page from that link.


"Regardless of the fact that Mao Asada can perform the highest level of element, the decision of the congress was made on medical reasons and not technical ones," said ISU president Ottavio Cinquanta, who was attending the event.

glad to hear that.

As far as Irina, she's never been a gracious loser.

[3Flutz3Lip]

Oh, I’m not surprised by IS comment.
I, like Maria, knew she was a stinker and accepted that along time ago, unlike some fans that are in denial.
IS makes Sasha looks like a sweetest angel ever there is.

[BumbledBee]

IS makes Sasha looks like a sweetest angel ever there is.:lol

Very funny!

[bekalc]

Oh, I’m not surprised by IS comment.
I, like Maria, knew she was a stinker and accepted that along time ago, unlike some fans that are in denial.
IS makes Sasha looks like a sweetest angel ever there is.

Sasha honestly isn't a poor sport when she loses. I don't know if I have ever heard Cohen complain about judging. I remember in Olympic 2002 when someone questioned one of her marks and Cohen's response I don't know I wasn't perfect, and Cohen shrugged it off Cohen was even nice about losing Marshalls, when she should have won. In her journal she thanked her fans that voted for her, and said she liked the format of the competition etc. Cohen's use to coming in second! But honestly one of the things I appreciate about Cohen is I don't hear her blaming judges I could be wrong, but I don't think she has, and honestly, I respect that in a skater.

This being said Irina is being quoted in her second language, and Shes' from a different culture then ours...

[moskva]

granted, that's sour grapes what irina said. when one's scores r shamelessly propped up meet after meet, it's no wonder she didn't like it one bit when reality hit back.

but to call her stinky, wishing she droppd dead with a heart attack? u r not so graceful either.

[taf]

No one said she wished Irina would drop dead from a heart attack. She said she would believe in Irina's illness when that happened.

I don't doubt Irina was seriously ill but no one could skate the way she has this season if things were all that dire now. She has obviously recovered, in fact, she has more stamina than I have ever seen her.

But that really shouldn't matter, no one deserves top scores or gold medals because they have been sick, or their mother needs a kidney, or they are a poor orphan. But hey, if it works, maybe Michelle will get the OGM just 'cause she has had a serious injury this year.....wait, no, it didn't work in 98.

[3Flutz3Lip]

Moskva, I didn’t call her stinky, Maria B did and I’m just agreeing w/ Maria.

And about Sasha, yes, I know Sasha has never made a stink when she loses. (And she has only skatedly cleanly a couple of times so she can't really say I waz robbed sort a thing anyway).
But she has made a few snide remarks though. Granted not as many as IS has.

In the FSU post, someone mentions that IS made an off comment about Sokolova (even though they are supposed to be friends or that they were just roomates and not really friends?).
What did IS say about Sokolova?

[marie23]

The girl just said what she believes, what's so wrong with that?
She complained about her marks, witch is pretty normal since she had higher scores all season, so she's asking for consistence from the judges.
And even if you don't agree with her scores, those are the scores she received, so why can't she state her mind off?
Plus I really think Mao's pcs should have been lower, or at least not that close to Irina's score.
I wonder if it was J. Weir that had said such a "big" thing if he wouldn't be admired for being "honnest". (I saiid Weir because he is known and some how respected for the fact that he says what he believes)
I for one prefer a skater that says what he/she feels, and she was not out of line.

[BumbledBee]

I think there is a language barrier due to the connotative meaning of "stinker" moskva. The term "stinker" in this reference does not imply that Irina has a bad smell (a.k.a stinky). Rather, it just means that somebody is known for being "difficult." Much like one would call a misbehaving child a "stinker." Also, as has been noted, Maria B used the term "stinker," or rather, she might have used a Russian word that implies the same thing.

[mzheng]

Sasha honestly isn't a poor sport when she loses. I don't know if I have ever heard Cohen complain about judging.
.......
This being said Irina is being quoted in her second language, and Shes' from a different culture then ours...
For the record I never heard Sasha complaining about judge's scores.....she always looking for other reasons on herself not on judges.

But I did heard Irina complaining in front of TV in English about her 2nd mark at SLC.....may be it's cutual thing that in Russia it's not considering bad sportsmanship when talking about judge's score. But, imo, it dose somehow reflect ones personality when you lose you always looking for the reason at judges instead of how you skated.

[gldnkwan]

"is in every article. I don't know about the "I didn't lose" statement, but the above quote really denounces all the skaters who took this competition as serious and important. Irina would have thought the competition was important had she won the gold medal at the GPF, but she didn't and so it isn't important. That's just disrespectful of all the skaters who DID think it was important, especially to the other Japanese ladies"

Yes, it is a very disrespectful remark, as if she is so high above needing a silly GPF gold. I am sure the ISU isn't thrilled with the remark either.

[3Flutz3Lip]

That’s precisely what I have been saying. The very fact that IS doesn’t even realize that her comments are really disrespectful to other competitors says alot about her.
And I also want to add, I dislike IS for her skating and also for the comments that she makes, not because she’s Russian.
I have to say that my favorite pairs are Anton/Elena and Dimitri/Mishtunok (i can't spell or remember her exact name but she was very flexible, and of course Yagudin.

[KaykoBakura]

Sasha honestly isn't a poor sport when she loses. I don't know if I have ever heard Cohen complain about judging. Cohen was even nice about losing Marshalls, when she should have won.

i agree about the judging thing but in the case of marshalls, if she had dissed the judging, she would have been dissing all of us and millions of other skating fans who didnt vote for her... but i agree with your point

[shellyfan]

Let Irina hang by her own words --- it does us no credit to gloat or add injury to her own self-inflicted wounds. If she was quoted correctly and in context it is just plain sad what came out of her mouth. Irina is super competitive and until this week pretty much alone at the top of the heap as far as international female skaters go. We'll never be clean by washing our hands in someone else's dirt.

[Anahi]

"Here I got 60. Same program, same dress."


Yep, same program same dress, but not same judges:P

[EigthAv]

Gosh......I have cried so much for Irina! My eyes ache from wiping tears.

Mao won,fair and square.Won by a margin......both programmes.Oh poor Irina won a GPF silver medal.Is the odds on fave for 2006 OGM.The only lady in the event I have sympathy for is Alissa Czisny.All she did was step up to the plate and handle the ladies' GP load for the USFSA.She is now rewarded with a royal snubbing at the Popularity event and stepped on by the judges at GPF.So pardon me if I have waaaay more sympathy for "poor Alissa" than for "poor Irina".I've already wriiten her a thank you note and sent it to Detroit SC.

Asada's score is on up there and I'll bet any one of you she earned evey last penny.I don't go along with the attitude that rookies shoudn't be allowed to receive the points they earn.Irina is routinely propped up with "brilliant artist points". Butyrskaya knows all about it,because she has been on the short end of the Slutskaya hold em up stick more than once.Maria beat the do do out of Irina at 2000 NHK and the bloody judges gave it to Irina.Biggest theft in a fs competition I've ever witnessed.

Yes,I'm a bit bummed over Czisny's butt last finish. I am also happy over Asada'a butt 1st finish and I'm glad she won.

Where is good ole Nate???? Nate had a thread all about hoping Mao could trip Irina up a bit before the Olympics.Well,it happened.I look froward to seeing it next week on ESPN.The ESPN turkeys could run the darn event tonight and tomorrow......but noooooooooo...... let's put shorts on Christmas day and frees on next Monday night.Wouldn't want to do anything to maybe improve the RATINGS.

[GoldenMichelle]

Maybe Nate is staying unspoiled?

anyway Mike i agree with you about the GPF is being broadcast. Last year I set my VCR to record it while I was gone for Christmas, but of course ABC changed thier schedule for the LP and I ended up with a whole tape of Golf...they even had to go and fool me by having Terry Gannon commentate for the golf tournament. Ugh

[KwansPrayerWarrior]

Edited...sigh

[taf]

The girl just said what she believes, what's so wrong with that?
She complained about her marks, witch is pretty normal since she had higher scores all season, so she's asking for consistence from the judges.

Here's what wrong with that: to imply that you should always get the same high mark is to imply that you skate exactly the same way every time. No skater does that.

And I don't think it has anything to do with who the panel of judges were either. That's to imply that poor Irina was marked down by judges who either don't like her or who have a national bias. Why can't it just be that she didn't skate as well as she has been doing so far this season? Those people who have seen the programs have posted pretty unanimously that she looked tired & was slower than usual and had several wonky landings. If that is true (we'll see next week) then just maybe the scoring was fair. Either way, it would have been nice if Irina had been a little gracious.

[bekalc]

I think the problem is that it also suggests that the person is not open to criticism either. And I think at this point Irina should be looking for all the feedback she can possibly get. So the judges are giving me low scores on PCS well why, did I do something differently this time. At the very least don't the protocolls have a whole lot of detail in them???? At least skaters can see how different elements are judged...

This being said I think every skater has had their moments, because they are human. I remember even Kwan having a moment and normally she's the epitome of class. The one moment I saw was in the Olympic short program at Salt Lake. Where Kwan was getting her marks, and she played with the crowd, giving the thumbs down for some of the lower marks. I'm sure Kwan was in jest, but I felt like you know what your getting first place marks here, and she was. It was just given the pairs controversy, I didn't think it was the smartest move, even if it was a joke. But Michelle's human. So I think if you want to look and nitpick you can find something wrong with just about everyone.

Still I like skaters like Sasha (and I think Michelle is like this too) who don't complain about the judges that much. Because you know what, the only person you can control on that sheet of ice is yourself. I remember being very impressed when the 17 year old Sasha refused to take the bait of the reporter who wanted to criticize one of Sasha's marks in the short program, which probably was really low, and Sasha was clean in the Olympic short. I thought well I wasn't perfect I can improve was a great response.. And I wish more skaters would try to look at it that way, even if they think they should have scored better. Because the best way to win, is to say well what can I do better so they give it to me next time.

[wildfire1922]

Let Irina hang by her own words --- it does us no credit to gloat or add injury to her own self-inflicted wounds. If she was quoted correctly and in context it is just plain sad what came out of her mouth. Irina is super competitive and until this week pretty much alone at the top of the heap as far as international female skaters go. We'll never be clean by washing our hands in someone else's dirt.

Exactly how do any of us "add injury to her own self-inflicted wounds." That makes absolutely no sense and really, I don't need anyone chastising me about what I say/post/feel/think. Honestly, I seriously doubt I'm washing my hands in anyone else's dirt because I have plenty of dirt in my own front yard to use.

What IS said, and adri whether she prefaced it by saying "for me" or not, was disrespectful to those who looked forward to competing against her. To learn that she didn't think it was important "for me" would mean competing against the others wasn't important either. It's pretty pathetic and downright insulting. But hey, she can certainly say what she wants. Culture differences aside, you can't lose THAT much in translation. And having been lucky enought to talk to Irina for a few minutes, her English ain't all that bad either.

[EigthAv]

Didn't Slutskaya recently say she wished Mao was age eligible for the Olympics so she would have more competition? If so,be careful what you wish for.:eek

[iloveskating]

There's nothing wrong with her saying it was stepping stone towards Torino...I think most skaters would say that, including MK. I think the part that rubs people the wrong way is that the GPF was "not important" to her.

[kuchana]

Given Irina's past behavior, the remark about "I didn't lose" doesn't surprise me. Over at FSW, people are saying the Western media misintrepreted "I didn't lose" to "I skated like a lady." Huh?????

[kwanette]

The girl just said what she believes, what's so wrong with that?
She complained about her marks, witch is pretty normal since she had higher scores all season, so she's asking for consistence from the judges.

Here's what wrong with that: to imply that you should always get the same high mark is to imply that you skate exactly the same way every time. No skater does that.

And I don't think it has anything to do with who the panel of judges were either. That's to imply that poor Irina was marked down by judges who either don't like her or who have a national bias. Why can't it just be that she didn't skate as well as she has been doing so far this season? Those people who have seen the programs have posted pretty unanimously that she looked tired & was slower than usual and had several wonky landings. If that is true (we'll see next week) then just maybe the scoring was fair. Either way, it would have been nice if Irina had been a little gracious.




Bingo!! Well said, taf.

[aaronts]

this is nothing new. same ole stinkin Slutskaya. in fact, i'll only refer to her as Stinker. she always thinks she should have won. she only likes Michelle when Michelle is coming in behind her. the minute she loses, it's boo hoo until the cows come home.

she needs a reality check. instead of this giving her one, she pushes herself further into her own world by denying she got beat. she stinks & i for one can't stand her or her skating~

[Eldredgefan2001]

Whoa, bash thread. Guess that I'll stay out of this one. :boggled

[kwanette]

Whoa, bash thread. Guess that I'll stay out of this one. :boggled


BUTT, you didn't.;)

[moskva]

i, for ur information, happen to find slutskaya's comments rude and delusional. by denegrating the one competition she didn't win to date this season, which happens to be grand prix finals, she not only devalued by extension her wins at cups of china and russia, but insulted her competion and - ultimately herslef. but that does not take anything away from her amazing skating and her competitive drive. it was hard for is accepting she'd lost, but as she said in another interview, times change, and technical difficulty evolves, while her skills have stayed pretty much were they were in 2000. but i'm not going to jump her while she's down, let along use third-grade literations such as "stinker." words like that reveal more about the callow mentality of those who throw them at irina, than about irina herself. i'm sorry i've been forced to post these words, but it needed to be done.

[kwanette]

moskva, I don't know why you feel bad about your post..I think that it is great...I am not comfortable with some of the nouns and adjectives used to describe Irina..That said, a discussion of WHAT she said..is totally fine...IMO..

[shell4mk]

Moskva,
I think you did a great job of putting things into perspective. You can disagree with what someone says without resulting in name-calling. :clap

[toutestgrace]

I'm chuckling to myself over the 'stinker' issue. My sweet sweet mom was eastern European and used the word often to refer to what we might call a brat (in English, so it must be a common expression). One skater she did not like was IS, due mostly to her personality. I bet if Mom and Maria got together for a cup of coffee, they'd both call her a stinker.;)

[Disciple of KWAN]

lol, i cannot believe she said mao gives her more competition?!? how rude to all the other women...

thats like saying..."well, no one else is good, so give the kid a shot...she won't beat me!"

anyways, i can s...y...m...pathize with irina [hard saying that]

if no one else in competition can hold it together, lol, then why complain when she wins all the time...

the only problem i have is that she's always getting inflated marks! She's not dumb, she knows it! She just got spoiled, and like a fat kid on halloween...she wants her candy...EXTRA CANDY!!!

Anywho, i'm glad they gave her appropriate marks!

[mkfanfl]

You know that is why I love and admire Michelle. She is so graceful and a great sport whether she wins or loses. Did anyone notice when Sasha finished her 2nd program at Marshalls, the camera went to Michelle and before she went to center ice she was clapping for Sasha. I dont see that too often. Irina is a great skater no doubt about it, but she is not a good sportsmanship as Michelle. I guess this is why Michelle has a huge fan base.

Katia

[Crizzy]

What cracks me up about Irina's comments is that if it wasn't such an important competition for her then why bother showing up.:lol

She really need to look at her protocols. Mao beat her mostly in the tech dept. because of her 1) triple axel 2) because of the 3 axel she was able to omit either a 3toe or 3 salchow with a harder jump that garners more points. Even though some might think her jumps are not as varied but if you have a 3 axel in your arsenal, hey why do a 3toe or 3 salchow. 3) Mao added a loop combo in every jump upgrading her points. Perhaps not alot but those loop really add up. I for one hate all the loop combos, I lurve seeing a variety of loop and toe combos but hey if Irina is able to pimp the Biellmanns then I say Pimp The Loop.


Irina was still getting inflated marks on her PCS although not as high as her "usuals". If Irina has anything to be pissy about I'll demand the judges dock Mao for her flutzing and up IS's SS.

[taf]

i, for ur information, happen to find slutskaya's comments rude and delusional. by denegrating the one competition she didn't win to date this season, which happens to be grand prix finals, she not only devalued by extension her wins at cups of china and russia, but insulted her competion and - ultimately herslef. but that does not take anything away from her amazing skating and her competitive drive. it was hard for is accepting she'd lost, but as she said in another interview, times change, and technical difficulty evolves, while her skills have stayed pretty much were they were in 2000. but i'm not going to jump her while she's down, let along use third-grade literations such as "stinker." words like that reveal more about the callow mentality of those who throw them at irina, than about irina herself. i'm sorry i've been forced to post these words, but it needed to be done.

"rude & delusional" is a little stronger than anything I (or many others) said. I said she was less than gracious and many on here said nothing that could be construed as bashing. So I have to take issue with your accusation that we are "jumping her while she's down". First of all, how is she down? The girl has lost one competition since 2004 Worlds. Is she supposed to be handed EVERY competition, no matter how she skates? Coming in 2nd in one event, with her win/lose record is hardly being down. And even if this was a borderline decision which could have gone either way, well you have to admit she's gotten the benefit of the doubt in her favor many times.

I actually think "I didn't lose" and "it wasn't important to me" can be contrued in more than one way and that her actual meaning might not have come across. But I don't see how anyone could misunderstand her complaints about the judging. I see this as similar to Surya's behavior at 94 Worlds. Her antics there took away from Yuka's win, just as Irina's complaining took away from Mao's.

[aaronts]

if my calling Irina a stinker says that i'm immature, then i'm fine being immature ;-) her & i are on the same plain then w our behaviors.

i think we all know why some here have a problem w her attitude when she loses at times & if that attitude doesn't stink, i don't know what does. when she has a questionable win(Euros '05 or Worlds '05 SP) she just chalks it up to "oh, i guess the judges or GOD thought i was better". her supporters almost always chalk it up to "translation" - i refuse to any longer as it would take the worlds largest, longest running conspiracy to keep this up.

& i don't know who posted that we shouldn't kick the stinker when she's down. rarely has a skater been more up, as the previous poster commented. one tiny loss & she can't even ackowledge the competition. pls, she stinks IMO & if that's a bash, what do you call her dismissing her competition?~

[Nitts]

Yes, it is a common expression in English as well.
I'm not surprised by Irina's comments. It seems she has made too many to insists it's always a translation error though. I'm more shocked that she said the competition wasn't important to her. I wonder how her fans reacted to that comment? Michelle made a similar one about a cheesefest a few years back and "some fans" ripped her apart for it.
Anyhow, congrats to Mao.

[skateworlds1]

If Irena is an inferier person, why bother talking about her? She shouldn't matter.

[TwinnerA]

I skated like a true lady because I love my program this year," Slutskaya said. "I just didn't understand why my component score was so low. It was higher in my other competitions."

But she added, "For me, this competition is not really important. It is just another step in going to Turin.

What the heck does loving her program have to do with skating like a true lady? I wonder what she means by skating like a true lady. A true lady in my book wouldn't have spoken so childishly after coming in second in a competition and dismissing her competition. :boggled MK is a true lady! :TJL

[kwanluv]

Well, as far as I'm concerned, Irina's PCS marks were spot on....mid 7's. The only three ladies competing today that should score higher PCS than that are Michelle, Sasha and Shizuka.

That said, I can understand her confusion because the judges inflated her COC and COR PCS scores, the ISU judges never should have propped her up so high in the first place, it appears they've finally realized.

To me it just seems every time she loses a major competition, she whines or complains.....2000 worlds, 2001 worlds, 2002 Olympics, 2005 GPF. Oh well, that's her way I guess.

[Louise1991]

"rude & delusional" is a little stronger than anything I (or many others) said. I said she was less than gracious and many on here said nothing that could be construed as bashing. So I have to take issue with your accusation that we are "jumping her while she's down". First of all, how is she down? The girl has lost one competition since 2004 Worlds. Is she supposed to be handed EVERY competition, no matter how she skates? Coming in 2nd in one event, with her win/lose record is hardly being down. And even if this was a borderline decision which could have gone either way, well you have to admit she's gotten the benefit of the doubt in her favor many times.

I actually think "I didn't lose" and "it wasn't important to me" can be contrued in more than one way and that her actual meaning might not have come across. But I don't see how anyone could misunderstand her complaints about the judging. I see this as similar to Surya's behavior at 94 Worlds. Her antics there took away from Yuka's win, just as Irina's complaining took away from Mao's.I agree with taf. When one has won every competition all season, why complain when another skater tops you with superior performances? Why take away the glory from the winner?

Perhaps the days of Irina getting inflated PCS marks just because she is Irina have come to the end. One can only hope.

[kwanette]

What the heck does loving her program have to do with skating like a true lady? I wonder what she means by skating like a true lady. A true lady in my book wouldn't have spoken so childishly after coming in second in a competition and dismissing her competition. :boggled MK is a true lady! :TJL


Twinner, I love you!

[skateworlds1]

I think you actually honor Irena by talking so much about her.

[TwinnerA]

Make no mistake, we are not honoring her. Far from it. :lol

[skateworlds1]

It looks that way to me.:lol

[3Flutz3Lip]

I actually think "I didn't lose" and "it wasn't important to me" can be contrued in more than one way and that her actual meaning might not have come across. But I don't see how anyone could misunderstand her complaints about the judging. I see this as similar to Surya's behavior at 94 Worlds. Her antics there took away from Yuka's win, just as Irina's complaining took away from Mao's.

Yes, by questioning the results, she’s not giving Mao the credit of having skated really well (Surya was a disgrace what she did to Yuka. It was a like a spoiled brat throwing a tantrum at the supermarket aisle or something). Mao did do the 3axel and and she her program is set up to maximize the TES part. If IS is worried, she should be worried about her TES mark, it was pretty low for her.

[3Flutz3Lip]

if my calling Irina a stinker says that i'm immature, then i'm fine being immature ;-) her & i are on the same plain then w our behaviors.

i think we all know why some here have a problem w her attitude when she loses at times & if that attitude doesn't stink, i don't know what does. when she has a questionable win(Euros '05 or Worlds '05 SP) she just chalks it up to "oh, i guess the judges or GOD thought i was better". her supporters almost always chalk it up to "translation" - i refuse to any longer as it would take the worlds largest, longest running conspiracy to keep this up.

& i don't know who posted that we shouldn't kick the stinker when she's down. rarely has a skater been more up, as the previous poster commented. one tiny loss & she can't even ackowledge the competition. pls, she stinks IMO & if that's a bash, what do you call her dismissing her competition?~

Thank you Arronts for having the guts to say it.
Yeah, my thought is exactly, IS has been saying stuff about other competitors for years that some of the very people on here would consider as bashing if it was from some regular blow joe on street. Yet when IS says it, she is either misquoted, taken out of context, or the language barrier/translation.
Yes, some comments on here can be strong, but then they are considered as bashing, while IS is digging herself a deeper hole everytimes she loses, people still want to give her the benefit of the doubt.

[Crizzy]

If Irena is an inferier person, why bother talking about her? She shouldn't matter.

Because this is a skating board and everyone should have the right to talk about it as long as they keep within the limits of the board rules. I really didn't like the whole "I'll believe it when IS have a heart attack" talk but I also didn't like that Irina just had to belittle this competition when to someone like Mao it was truly an important and memorable event to her and many of her fans esp. this fan of Mao. :D

I might have harped on Mao's presentation skill and her obvious flutzing but I have also praised this young girl for having a good head on her shoulders.
I hope Irina will look at her protocols and find out what her weak areas were before assuming that every and each performance should have an equal value no matter how it was performed.

Now that the judges have seen that someone can be placed above Irina, the Olympic gold might not be a lock anymore. Remember Sarah, she was placed above Michelle and Irina in the GP, due to this the judges are able to place Sarah as a contender more than we knew she were, maybe even more than Sarah knew herself. This does give a person reason to hope that the playing field will be leveled as it should have been this past 2 seasons if the judges were properly grading each skaters.

[3Flutz3Lip]

OMG, Crizzy, are you saying what I’m thinking.
Do you think that the ISU will probably making an exception for Mao to go to Turino?
That would be just too deja vu woulnd’t it?
And it would be the biggest upset of all time.

Of course I’m just jumping ahead.
Winning one competition doesn’t mean that she’ll a sure thing for the OGM even if she can go. But she is the person so far who has beaten IS since 2004.

[Crizzy]

Nope 3flutz, ISU will definitely not make an exception for Mao. Speedy is not crazy enough to jeopardize one podium spot that Carolina could have. But Mao being placed above Irina means that other skaters definitely has a chance of beating Irina even without a 3 axel. I think the judges are learning to use the PCS marks (slowly but surely) even though I still thought Irina's scores were inflated at GPF. I only have Speedy to blame for this with his talk of judges being too insecure of using the 8s, 9s and 10s numbers and then next thing we know judges are throwing in the high 8s when they themselves don't know what performance constitute as a high 8 or low 7. This is one of the many problems with CoP- what is a perfect score, how do judges mark the PCS.

[GoldenMichelle]

I wonder what she means by skating like a true lady.
I think maybe she meant that she skate's like a woman rather than a girl. Basically the same comparison we make between skaters that skate like Juniors and those who skate like seniors. Of course I could be wrong, but that was the impression I got.
I don't know what that would have to do with liking her program though.

[mzheng]

I actually think "I didn't lose" and "it wasn't important to me" can be contrued in more than one way and that her actual meaning might not have come across. But I don't see how anyone could misunderstand her complaints about the judging. I see this as similar to Surya's behavior at 94 Worlds. Her antics there took away from Yuka's win, just as Irina's complaining took away from Mao's.
I'm with you taf here.....the other two things you can give benefit of doubt that the words may take out the context, or the question asked was very rude (it was true one question asked by Jounalist was very rude, so she gave a rude answer "I don't lost" )...but the comment about judges can't be misinterpreted.

[sk8tingfan]

I found this in the article at usfsa.org. Maybe the judges finally decided that they just couldn't ethically inflate Irina's scores anymore. At least Irina is no longer "unbeatable," which I think is a wonderful sign going into the Olympics!

Bingo! Ten points for you for nailing it!:clap

[mzheng]

Never mind

[robinjoy]

I am so proud that Michelle is a true champion and doesnt belittle her competition when she doesn't win. She is a true Champion with or without a OGM.

[Supersal77]

I think if Irina really did say something like "I didn't lose, I skated like a lady", she probably meant that as an insult to Mao, in other words, Mao does not skate like a lady on the ice becasue she is too young and her presentation skills are still developing. Why else would Irina say, "I skated like a Lady"? She was asked about what she thought of the result and why she lost, so if she said that, it had to be an insult to Mao I think. I mean it is redundant and self-explanantory that Irina skates like a lady and has been doing so for some time I think! LOL! No need to state the obvious. It was a sarcastic did at Mao if that is what she said.

[moskva]

this aggressive, pull-no-punches tone of discussion makes posting in this thread a little uncomfortable for those board members who happen not to subscribe to ur shared belief that being a michelle fan equals hating her competition. some posters here have no qualms about admitting that they cannot stand irina and her skating. which is fine, everybody's is entitled to their likes and dislikes. i, for one, m not very fond of sasha, but i will never stoop to personal insults against her, no matter what i think about her comportment on and off the ice. but that's just me.

as for stinker being a common word of the english language, i'll concede u that much, but add that so is f**ker. just because it's common does not mean it should be used liberally with no reservations. stinker may not be an all-out insult, but it is derogatory. widespread usage does not confer acceptability on profanity, don't kid urselves.

to reiterate, i share many of u's frustration with the way judging is always skewed in irina's favor, with how she has actually skated having no repercussions on the marks the judges "give away" to her. i also feel that the comments she was quoted as saying were inappropriate, and that the way she handles defeat is puerile. all i m asking is that we keep the discourse civil. she is a human being and as such deserves - if not our adulation as a skater, at least a little respect. even if she does not accord the same level of respect to her competitiors herself at times.

[skateworlds1]

Bravo moskva :clap

[BumbledBee]

Yeah, my thought is exactly, IS has been saying stuff about other competitors for years that some of the very people on here would consider as bashing if it was from some regular blow joe on street. Yet when IS says it, she is either misquoted, taken out of context, or the language barrier/translation.
Yes, some comments on here can be strong, but then they are considered as bashing, while IS is digging herself a deeper hole everytimes she loses, people still want to give her the benefit of the doubt. :clap

I was thinking about something that I remembered learning in an English class. Considering the fact that language is so full of slippery slopes (connotations vs. denotations) and the fact that language is simply a bunch of symbols for the real thing, it would be completely impossible for somebody to write anything and not have it come across as offensive if the person reading it wanted it to be offensive. Therefore, any forum post or comment made by a skater could eventually be read into as being derogatory in some form or another. In lieu of this, I suspect that it would be best if we all just said nothing and reverted back to the days of the cave man when only our actions could get us into trouble. :X

[aaronts]

as far as i'm concerned, Stinker's attitude has nothing to do w Michelle. Michelle hasn't competed against the stinker in almost a year - why does my or anyone else's dislike of stink have to be related to Michelle?

Moskva, you could go back for years & read my posts about Stinker & never read "i like Irina's skating". because i don't now & never have. i, like many others, gave her props for the improvement from '98 - '99 & '00 but i still never liked her skating. as of late, her attitude has annoyed me & countless others & the only way to avoid open criticism of what comes out of her mouth is for her to be ever gracious. she's not, & here we are.

for me, the only way not to write anything showing my disgust for her sportsmanship is to write nothing at all. but if we're going to go by the old adage "if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all", half of this forum would be gone in a poof~

[aaronts]

just wanted to add:

sorry if my posts ever come off as rude, obnoxious, belittling, etc.. sometimes i mean things a totally different way but, "my english.....is not so good"~

[skateworlds1]

Bravo moskva :clap

[moskva]

aaronts,

far it be for me to want to muzzle the discussion. those who ascribe me the intention do not know me at all (probably were not here around february-march 2002). if anything, i strive off controversy. i like a good fight, so long as at least a modicum of decorum is observed.

u wrote in ur post:
Moskva, you could go back for years & read my posts about Stinker & never read "i like Irina's skating". because i don't now & never have. i, like many others, gave her props for the improvement from '98 - '99 & '00 but i still never liked her skating. as of late, her attitude has annoyed me & countless others & the only way to avoid open criticism of what comes out of her mouth is for her to be ever gracious. she's not, & here we are.

whereas i respect ur right to have any feelings toward anybody, that's ur unalienbalbe right as a person, i have to ask, don't u think that the gammut of ur emtions is a little too strong as directed toward someone u don't really know, probably have never met in person, and the only glimpses into whose character u've had have come through media-perpetuated soundbites? granted, what comes out of irina's mouth does her no credit, but to write her off completely as underserving any consideration and respect on the basis of a few interviews? i'm sure we all have moments where we said, did, or thought about doing some things that don't do us proud, this does not mean we r inherently and irrevocably evil and unsalvagable for any good cause. and eventhough irina, by virtue of appearing on tv is a bone fide public persona, don't u think it's a little unfair to use a wholly different yardstick to judge her character, than the rest of ours? just some questions i would like u to ponder once the newness of this irina's gaffe's worn off.

respectfully,
moskva

[Arch]

...But that really shouldn't matter, no one deserves top scores or gold medals because they have been sick, or their mother needs a kidney, or they are a poor orphan...

No one deserves top scores when their skate is sloppy and ugly and devoid of any real presentation skills...


... Irina is a great skater no doubt about it, but...

I wouldn't call her that, either. A 'great jumper,' maybe, but then, that's just me...

[toutestgrace]

stinker may not be an all-out insult, but it is derogatory. widespread usage does not confer acceptability on profanity, don't kid urselves.

Yes, 'stinker' is derogatory, but not as a put-down, and certainly not profanity. Anytime I heard it used (many MANY years, since my childhood), it had more the connotation of a scolding for misbehaving...with a shake of the head and roll of the eyes.

From what everyone is describing here, that's about all Irina deserves. Nothing more.

[Krista]

parents call their kids "little stinkers" sometimes when they're up to no good, but its never meant in a hateful or harmful way. I don't think it was meant in a hateful way here either.

[moskva]

well, before someone posts a statement here to the effect that stinker is really a term of endearment in america, i thought i'd google the word and see what definitions come up. i'll copy-paste it below for ur perusal

S: (n) rotter, dirty dog, rat, skunk, stinker, stinkpot, bum, puke, crumb, lowlife, scum bag, so-and-so, git (a person who is deemed to be despicable or contemptible) "only a rotter would do that"; "kill the rat"; "throw the bum out"; "you cowardly little pukes!"; "the British call a contemptible person a `git'"
S: (n) stinker (anything that gives off an offensive odor (especially a cheap cigar))
S: (n) lemon, stinker (an artifact (especially an automobile) that is defective or unsatisfactory)

a person who is deemed to be despicable or contemptible, interesting. the definition is provided courtesy of the princeton online dictionary(http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=stinker)
unless u want to allege that the compilers of the princeton dictionary don't know the first thing about their own language, ur argument is moot.

as for those of u who advocate the benign nature of the word, u don't mind being called stinker urselves then, do u? so, next time i see a post by one of u i disagree with, that's what i'll call u. no hard feelings, ok?

[Krista]

wouldn't bother me. its all in context and who is saying it.

I feel as if we're getting into the territory of defining what "is" is. :lol

BTW, here's the definition I found on dictionary.com

stink·er ( P ) Pronunciation Key (stngkr)
n.
One that stinks.
Slang.
An irritating, disgusting, or contemptible person.
Something very difficult: The interview was a real stinker.
One that is of poor quality or is shoddy: a new sitcom that was quite a stinker.

[amielou]

mosvka, you're getting to the line in language between denotation and connotation. It's something we even teach our students about in English language and literature classes in America. You have given us the denotation, or literal, meaning of "stinker". The literal meaning is the one typically found in the dictionary. The connotative meaning, the meaning people have when they use the word, is often slightly different. The classic example of the difference between denotation and connotation that is often used in American texts is the phrase "Mom, baseball and apple pie." In terms of denotative meaning, "Mom" is someone's maternal parent, "baseball" is a game played with a bat and ball, and "apple pie" is a type of baked pastry. Taken together, the connotative meaning here is a reference to all good things that are purely American. (And, yes, it is odd that we have a phrase that implies we are the only country with mothers, but that is beside the point).

You have stated the denotation of "stinker" and stated it correctly. The connotation for many Americans is a bratty or ill-behaved child. My grandmother often chastised us when we were little and did something bad as being "little stinkers." I have also heard the word used to imply a mischievous child who is prone to getting in trouble. My friend has four very young children and has said before that one "can be a stinker", what she means is that he is more likely to do something he is not supposed to or not immediately obey her. Most Americans do not interpret the word as an insult. I respect your grasp of English, but as many language teachers will tell you it is difficult to learn the connotations, cliches, and idiomatic expressions of another language.

[aaronts]

thanks Amielou. there is a difference & although i could think of a few choice words to call Irina that wouldn't be allowed here, any one stemming from the root "stink" best describes her IMO & as you mentioned, is not an insult in the way that "scumbag" would be. for me, it describes her attitude & no amount of misguided semantics will change that.

& Moskva, i'm not going to tell you how to post but please don't dramatize my posts to the point of slipping in the word "evil". i certainly don't believe Stinker is evil in the grand scheme of life or even on the ice for that matter. lowlife or rat is also not what i had in mind but thanks for reducing my honesty & explanation to back up my opinion to the likes of what flew out of Hitler's mouth.

i don't want to know Irina based on what i've seen & heard of her. there are plenty other skaters who appeal more to me in skating & in word~

[missmarysgarden]

Amielou, you beat me to the post, and you are absolutely right.

Moskva, I am one who is always interested and appreciative of your well thought out and informative posts. I also consider you to be very fair and considerate, and I usually agree with what you have to say. However, amielou is right on this one. "Stinker" as used in American English is not a loaded word. It is often used in mild jest among friends - as in playing cards, someone takes the card you want, a response of "You stinker!" is a mild jest. And I'll affirm that parents often hug their children and say "You little stinker" as a mild chiding. Its also used to describe someone who is manipulative... as in "Don't believe everything she says - she's a stinker."

What I find most interesting is that the first time I ever heard the word applied to Irina was in the translation of an interview with Maria Butyrskaya - so if someone could find that very old interview, it would be interesting to see what Russian word was translated as "stinker." But then you would have to explain how the Russian word is used colloquially.

That being said, with all due respect, I think that "stinker" is a mildly appropriate smack at Irina for her behaviour. It also has the connotation of being "two-faced", a very evident characteristic in Irina's behaviour - when she has things going for her, she talks about what great friends she is with Michelle; when she is caught off guard, she disses Michelle. In English, I would say "What a stinker!"

"A rose by any other name would smell as sweet!"

[TwinnerA]

I am pretty sure I was called a stinker as a child and probably deservedly so, considering all the mischief my twin and I got into when we were little. My mother's way of kidproofing our room was to remove the dressers, leaving only cribs and toys. She also had to put a "Dutch" door (where the bottom part locks and she could leave the top part open and the bottom part locked from the hallway) in order to monitor our activities and keep us safe in addition to putting locks at up at the top of the folding closet doors. If not, we would drag all of our clothes out of the dressers and closet repeatedly. Eventually, we discovered we could stand on a chair and reach over and unlock the door and escape. My mother never had harnesses for us in public, but she has told me she was tempted to because the moment she would let go of our hands in the store we would head for the hills. Yes, we were stinkers!!!!!

[kwanluv]

Since this has gone way off-topic and has turned into a "stinker" debate (lol) I'm closing it down.