How did Italy turn out a skater of Kostners quality?

[Nathan]

Italy has never really had a champion skater in any discipline with the exception of one ice dance team.

FS in Italy just isn't a big sport, which accounts for why a skater can win their senior Nationals without landing one clean triple (2004 Italian Nationals)

Where did Carolina come from? How did an Italian skater get such great jumping talent? I know she was trained outside of Italy...but it seems she really became a diamond in the rough.

[attyfan]

There is always a first for everything.

[mr pru]

Kimmie already has more talent than Miss Kostner will ever have.

IMO, Miss Kostner is a puppet of the system.

Okay-she can jump. Big Whoop.

She flails about, doesn't hold her positions, has NO line, has absolutely no stamina-the list could go on.

At the end of every LP I've seen her skate, she is so out of breath, she can't even stand up straight. The last minute or so of her LPs are downright pitiful.

I'd put Kimmie, Emily, BeBe, Katy, and Jenny far above her on the list of overall talent and skating ability.

*edited*

I have no doubt that despite all her faults, that she'll be very successful in Torino.

The judges will be made an offer they can't refuse.

[gratefulmkfan]

Genetic predisposition? IIRC, she comes from an athletic family, and yes, she left Italy at 10 years old to train.

[Nathan]

I disagree entirely. I think Carolina has a rare quality about her skating which is very enticing.

She skates with incredible speed (even for a man) and still manages to keep a lightness about herself on the ice. She has good basics, and even though she's a little awkward her style improves mre and more each season.

And not to mention her jumps are incredible. The woman can do a 3/3/3 combination! And she's one of about 3 ladies brave enough to perform 3/3/3 combo's in the SP. There's been less than 10 ladies in history who have attempted and landed 3/3 combo's in SP:Surya, Debi?, Carolina, Miki, Shizuka, Amber (good for her for making this list)

So carolina is a rare talent.

[Anahi]

I don't want to sound rude or something, but the question was only about Kostner's quality as a skater, not "in your opinion how is kostner compared to other skaters", I think she has great quality, and well maybe she lacks some elements and posture, but hey she has talent and no doubt about it.

Added: Nate I agree with you, she's a great jumper and as the title of this thread says, she has "quality".

[mr pru]

I'm not the least surprised Nathan.

[gratefulmkfan]

Add Jenny Kirk to the list of women who did a 3/3 in the SP. She did a 10 pointer in the 03-04 season, with CoP being tested. Then at Nationals '04, she did the 3t/3t in the SP again, under the "old system". Amber has always done the 3t/3t because she can't do a lutz combo. Jenny found her lutz combo last year, but sadly she also lost some other things.

BTW, re: Kostners' quality. Each person has the right to their own opinion. She isn't my cup of tea, and I don't see her talents as obvious yet. Maybe by next season. For now, I see speed, and some big jumps, but I also see loss of control, no connection with her music, and absence of a whole package. Then again, under CoP, that whole package doesn't seem to matter much anymore. It's not the same sport I fell in love with years ago, so I expect that some people who would still be considered "juniorish or coltish" under the old system, might win lots of medals under this one! The positive side of this is that after Worlds next year, I can cancel some of my cable channels and save a buck or two. Then I can cancel my ISP and save even more.

ETC: Another typo (sigh)

Fly high Mchelle :FL !

[belladella]

The simplest response to the title of this thread might be that Carolina wasn't trained in Italy at all. Isn't she the product of a German ice skating training association where she lives and trains? Doesn't she also use Kurt Browing for choreography and also do some of her training in Canada?

[taf]

"And she's one of about 3 ladies brave enough to perform 3/3/3 combo's in the SP."

A 3/3/3 combo isn't allowed in the SP. Since no one has ever done one, we don't know how brave she is.

Re Kostner, she has a lot of excellent elements but to me it's not really appealing. There's an unfinished coltish quality about everything she does, plus her posture is almost as bad as SH's. But she one of the fastest skaters I've ever seen.

[millenniummagicz]

well, the list of names u gave on SP triple triple, there was only a few of them who would get ratified under CoP.

I agree with that Kostner being the puppet who benefited from the system. I dont find any of her skating quality appleaing, but then again, that's just my opinion.

Sure she's doin great triple triples, but her overall consistency in competition is still lacking. thru 03 to 05, she never skated a clean LP at Worlds.

[kwanluv]

There's an unfinished coltish quality about everything she does, plus her posture is almost as bad as SH's.So true taf, I completely agree.

Sure she's doin great triple triples, but her overall consistency in competition is still lacking. thru 03 to 05, she never skated a clean LP at Worlds. True again. But sadly, CoP doesn't reward consistency. :\

[TarotX]

WOW-the CK love used to be here. What changed?

:TOS

[berthesghost]

"Italy has never really had a champion skater in any discipline with the exception of one ice dance team.'

Carlo Fassi was a 2 time euro champ and world bronze in the 50s before becoming one of the most succesful coaches ever (probably only TT has more champs under her belt)

Susanna Driano won the world bronze in 78. There are probably others I've forgotten about.

"FS in Italy just isn't a big sport, which accounts for why a skater can win their senior Nationals without landing one clean triple (2004 Italian Nationals)"

Let's not be rude, I'm sure the Italian skaters would all be very surprised to hear how lazy and awful they all are. Sure, they're not all Alberto Tomba, but they do show up to Euros with entries in all 4 disciplines, which is a lot more than a lot of other European countries can muster these days.

"Where did Carolina come from? "

Her cousin is a famous champion skier, so obviously the family is talented. Her mother figure skated and her dad and brothers all played hockey.

She's from a small town in the Italina Alps, near Austria and German borders. Her rink was ruined in some kind of avalanch, but I think she was going to go away to boarding school anyway, so they chose one in Germany where she could train as well. She trains on the same ice as alot of other champs.

[Krista]

I like her from what Ive seen of her, but I don't think she deserved the placement she got at Worlds. She needs to work on her posture and control. She can do good 3/3's, but she doesn't have very many other elements that really shine. I think she has alot of potential, I just hope COP doesn't mess that up. Im really starting to dislike COP. Quality and presentation have really lacked under COP IMO. I mean yeah, you can present any program, but if you're doing things sloppily just because you get points for them, then it affects the overall presentation.

Bottom line, I like Carolina. She may not have the line and posture of others, but she still has alot of potential. I hope she does well, but of course I hope Michelle does better ;)

[EigthAv]

Kostner is a fine ladies' figure skater and not a "puppet of the system". If you honestly think the ISU is that shallow and bogus,why bother being any sort fan of any of it's players???

[StephT]

Though I'll agree that she has some fine tuning to do as far as posture, style and musical interpretation goes - I cannot understand how somebody could overlook or even doubt her talent as a figure skater. This girl has most incredible speed over the ice, as I could see when I watched her train in Oberstdorf last year.

She has an incredible talent for jumping. Her 3/3/3's are huge, and effortless. She has lovely spins. I do feel that her team perhaps over-challenges her with choreography. The steps are inticrate and quick, but she can't quite keep up at times.

Overall, I think Caro has great potential for the future. I doubt that the talent of a skater can be reasoned or explained by their country. She is Italian, but trained in Germany for the longest time. People shouldn't forget that there are many great talents out there, but it is the luck, money, dedication, training oppertunities, mental disposition, ice time availability etc. etc. that in the end triggers success IMO.

[lavender]

Ok Mike I'm not really that much of a fan of skating anymore. I was a fan way before Michelle but now I'm just sticking around because Michelle is still skating.

I agree with mr pru, Grateful and taf2002.

[GardenKitty]

To me, Italy's most "accomplished" skater is Sylvia Fontana - never mind World medals, she got John Zimmerman! :lol

[kwanluv]

Indeed Garden Kitty...indeed :D

[missmarysgarden]

I think Carolina is a little old to be awarded on potential. She is definitely not a complete skater. With the build-up she was given, I found her more disappointing than Cynthia Phaneuf. Her style is immature and her positions below World class expectation.

[belladella]

WOW-the CK love used to be here. What changed?
Carolina like most skaters has always had admirers and truly devoted fans with perhaps a few here on MKF. But I don't recall that love of Carolina was ever the predominant response here. Instead, from what I recall, beginning with Worlds 2003 the comments tended to be more about her gawkiness, and her inconsistency. After Worlds 2004 skatefans were surprised that the judges scored her so well in spite of the inconsistencies and flaws in her performances at Dortmund.

Having said that, I'll add that she showed a lot of improvement last season and she should only be better in 2005-2006.

I've had a chance to chat with Carolina and she is as delightful as teenager can be

I have to agree with Garden Kitty re Silvia Fontana's amazing accomplishment.

[patsue]

Unfortunately the era of CoP is here. Falls, sloppiness, no flow over the ice, no connection with the music, no "little touches" to a finished program, etc. Carolina is just another skater to me--no magic. Speed is okay I guess--but for me there needs to be a blend of speed and flowing and skating with the music. I just don't get the hype some give to this young lady.

[Tejada1981]

Am I the first person on this thread to be offended by someone suggesting that Carolina owes her success to criminal connections? What a sick comment. I can't believe this thread is still here.:o

[Krista]

I think Carolina is a little old to be awarded on potential. She is definitely not a complete skater. With the build-up she was given, I found her more disappointing than Cynthia Phaneuf. Her style is immature and her positions below World class expectation.

It takes the right people to bring out the potential in some people. Maybe Carolina hasn't worked with the right people yet. And she isn't *that* old. People were saying that Michelle hadn't reached her peak yet(including Michelle), just a year or so ago, and I would say that meant that she still had potential to get better.

[kwanluv]

Wow...I didn't see that comment...just edited it out.

Thanks Tejada1981

[kwanette]

belladella and patsue, ITA.

[lavender]

Ditto to what Kwanette said.

[candygirl559]

I think she's a very talented skater or else she wouldn't be able to compete against any of the other skaters. She has very strong triples and good 3/3 or 3/3/3 combinations, good speed in her skating, good ice coverage, and good spins.

But I do agree she has to work on a few things such as posture, expression of the music, choreography, and some positions in her skating.

[MKGrace]

Though I'll agree that she has some fine tuning to do as far as posture, style and musical interpretation goes - I cannot understand how somebody could overlook or even doubt her talent as a figure skater. This girl has most incredible speed over the ice, as I could see when I watched her train in Oberstdorf last year.
StephT - ITA. Carolina has a natural athletic ability that I would think is in her genes considering her family history. She has so much speed and it doesn't look like she's trying for it, and her jumps have great, natural height. I think she's a great talent - a diamond in the rough. The rough part is her choreography, music and costumes, none of which I like. Her hair needs a do-over too.

[Shiprock]

It was worth opening this thread when I read Garden Kitty's comment, LOL!

[mr pru]

My sincere apologies for my out of line remark.

It honestly was meant to be sarcasm, but I can see how one could have been offended.

Again-my apologies.

:\

[MKGrace]

I have no doubt that despite all her faults, that she'll be very successful in Torino.The judges will be made an offer they can't refuse.
mrpru - That's ok but maybe you should lay off the Sopranos reruns for awhile. :lol :b

[mr pru]

Actually-it was Marlon Brando in the Godfather.

I'm sure you knew that already.

IMO-the greatest movie ever. I hated the fact that it had to end.

Your advice will be heeded, though.

Thanks!!

[gratefulmkfan]

Mr. Pru, I think most of us knew you were kidding. At least I hope so. No apology required :) .

[mr pru]

Thanks!!

It truly means alot that you took the time to reassure me.

I'll try to "toe" the company line from here on. I'll try to keep an eye on my "forward edge" and be an :angel .

:lol :lol :p ;) :lol

[Tejada1981]

Thank you, Mr. Pru. Apology accepted. :) Could you imagine how angry we would become if someone suggested the Chinese mafia was responsible for Michelle's placements? :rollin

[gratefulmkfan]

You're quite welcome :) . We all have a problem with our edges from time to time, but it seems some people have an "edgy" problem from time to time, and they can't wait to complain about our edges. For whatever reason, they don't seem to appreciate a good forward edge kind of humor. In any case, I thought it was funny, and I'm glad I read it before the editing happened.

Stay happy, but don't be too :angel , or I won't recognize you :) . :p

[Tejada1981]

I don't think I was being edgy. I think a double standard is at hand here. If someone posted allegations about Michelle and the Chinese mafia I'd doubt we, her fans, would find it funny. Nor would we appreciate being told we're "edgy" and don't appreciate humor if we objected to someone tying her to criminal activities. After SLC it's harder to laugh off skating results/mafia connection. Carolina has worked hard in her skating and doesn't deserve someone accrediting her success to criminal activities. Had mr. pru attached an winking icon to his post then it would have been clear he was joking but he didn't. He listed the mafia connection along with other legitimate explanations for Carolina's success. That was out of line, imo.

[MKGrace]

ITA Tejada on the "edgy" part. It was entirely appropriate and reasonable to object to the mafia connection comment, not a matter of being on edge.

[gratefulmkfan]

As I said somewhere else here today, in all things, one must consider the source, and I could see that he was kidding. Maybe it's my age, or yours, that makes us see it differently. There are always people ready to assume the worst about another person. I'd rather assume the best of the people here, but that's just me. It's worth thinking about though.

Hugs and good night to all :) .

[Tejada1981]

I'm not ready to assume the worst about people either so we agree on something. ;-) It's just hard to read intent on a computer screen and there was nothing in mr pru's post to indicate he was kidding. I also don't think someone should be ridiculed for expressing their feelings on a matter. Something to think about!

I think it's great that if you saw someone tying Michelle to criminal activities (or making other unfair accusations about her) you could laugh it off and assume it was all a big joke. I'm not sure most people could do the same but it's nice to know that you can. I hope you'll be the voice of reason when that happens!

Sweet Dreams!

[berthesghost]

"s I said somewhere else here today, in all things, one must consider the source, and I could see that he was kidding. Maybe it's my age, or yours, that makes us see it differently. There are always people ready to assume the worst about another person. I'd rather assume the best of the people here, but that's just me. It's worth thinking about though."

Get a clue, or at least sign up for some sensitivity training.

As an Italian-American, I could go on and on for 10 pages about all of the prejudice I encounter in mainstream culture. If someone made a gay joke about Rudy, or a Chinese or female one about MK, or a racist one against Debi or Derick, you'd all be all over them like a bad rash. What next, "Dumb Polish pairs skaters are so dumb that...." jokes?

Let me help you out: MAFIA JOKES AGAISNT INNOCENT LAW ABIDING ITALIANS ARE NEVER, EVER FUNNY!

At least Mr Pru had the sense to appologize.

[Nathan]

I think there's a slight double standard here. I make comments all the time about legitimate skating issues, and I get railed over the rafters. Basically anything I post comes with a guarantee that I'll be met with a flood of disagreeing responses. EX. I've seen wonderful comments about Carolina's skating on this board, but because this one is comming from Natephame I have to post about what an awful skater she is to counter his praise. I bet I could post "I love MK to death" and still get a flood of posters angry at my comments. I never come CLOSE to making racially offensive remarks and someone does and the board responds with loving comfort?

Why can't someone assume the best in me for a change?

[EigthAv]

All the original poster wanted to know was some background on Kostner. Prutesy Wootsie sticks his head in door to call Carolina a puppet.We have to wade through the usual " she's no Michelle" posts.I agree.Kwan is no Kostner and vice versa. Kostner is giving the Italian Federation reason to at least believe one of it's ladies could medal at the Olympics. <!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--> Berthe,just for you..........<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->Carolina Kostner is a marvelous figure skater and a proper young lady.She has Godfather's respect! Salut! :hat I'm gonna make doze judges an offer they can't refuse. Kwan-gold,Liashenko-silver and Kostner-bronze.

[mr pru]

Geesh...

[Krista]

indeed lol

[Dragonlady]

WOW-the CK love used to be here. What changed?

She beat Michelle at Worlds, that's what changed. Lots of up-and-coming young skaters get favourable comments here but the moment they beat Michelle, watch out!

Speaking for myself, I was never that taken with Kostner in the first place. Yes, she was very, very fast and could do 3/3's but she never seemed really over her blades or in control. She seemed to be careening around the ice at top speed. I placed her in the group of "very talented kids with potential" and I thought she was very over-marked, probably based on speed.

Little has changed in my initial assessment because little has changed in Carolina's skating. I do think that the Italian media are going to really put a lot of pressure on Caro in an Olympic year, especially with her bronze going into Torino. She's sitting in exactly the same position as Sarah was going into SLC - Worlds bronze medalist with the Olympics in her home country. The difference is that Sarah was considered the #3 skater in her home country. All of the nation's expectations rested on the shoulders of others. For Carolina, all the expectations are on her. Let's see how she handles the pressure.

[berthesghost]

I think that both belldella and dragonlady are right.

There never was a big love for Caro here.

Once she finished above MK this past worlds, the negativity ratcheted up a few notches.

I knew she wasn't popular here, but even I'm shocked at some of the forcefullness of some of the comments. The "puppet" comment was particularly rude IMHO.

[TwinnerA]

I haven't been that impressed by CK either. Unless a skater is visibly winded or dragging during the latter part of her long program, I think speed is overrated. I value other qualities far more than the speed of a skater. After all, this isn't speed skating, but figure skating.

[mr pru]

The comment about being a puppet was an opinion-which everyone is entitled to.

It was never stated as fact.

B-gh-ice-you don't hesitate to give your opinion on anything.

Aren't others afforded the same rights you take every opportunity to use?

[berthesghost]

What are you going on about? Of course it's an opinion, it's certainly not a proven fact. You expresed your opinion and I expressed mine, ie; a forum. I certainly don't shy away from strong statements and people point out to me when I've oversteped a line or gone overboard all the time.

There is a big difference between calling Caro coltlike or juniorish or even awkward, and insinuating that's she's a prop of a political system. The puppet comment was OTT IMHO, regardless of whom it was directed at. The "_____ only wins due to politics" bash is pretty lame IMO, and getting veeeery boring.

[mr pru]

I merely asked you a question.

You were the one "going on about".

Evidently it's okay for you to give a strong opinion-just no one else can or you will puff up and blow about it.

[skatingfan5]

I haven't been that impressed by CK either. Unless a skater is visibly winded or dragging during the latter part of her long program, I think speed is overrated. I value other qualities far more than the speed of a skater. After all, this isn't speed skating, but figure skating. Speed alone IS not that impressive to me, either. But Carolina has much more than just "speed" -- she has great flow and edging with that speed, and achieves it without excessive pumping of her back -- it appears effortless. When she is "on" there is much to admire about her skating and I was really impressed when I first saw her skate live at 2003 Worlds, despite the "unfinished" quality of her spins, especially. Of course her LP in Washington was a disaster and I thought that her 2004 LP was grossly overmarked (great start but then marred by three glaring errors), but she skated well in Moscow. IMO she was undermarked in the SP, but overmarked in the LP. I don't know why anyone would consider her a "puppet" -- but I'm sure that Speedy is doing some major work behind the scenes in his efforts to see her on the podium in Torino. That says nothing about Carolina and my opinion of her -- and everything about my views of Cinquanta. :x >:

[EigthAv]

The common taters in the ESPN broadcast were pointing out Kostner's strengths during Worlds. I'm not a huge big fan of Carolina.I'm also not on the Little Hughes bandwagon.Just the same,I see both girls as outside threats for the big OGM. I think Silvia Fontana's name has been mentioned somewhere in this thread.Fontana never won a World medal,but was a strong competitor.So it's not like Italy has never had a contender before........now,if McCorkell could crank it on up in Great Britain......get Liashenko percalating in Ukraine...... I'd love to see a Worldwide splendid Olympic season.

[MKGrace]

Why can't someone assume the best in me for a change? Nate- Don't be so dramatic. I know I'm just one measly poster in this huge forum but I don't think ill of you or your opinions (even the ones I don't agree with). If I were you I'd feel pretty good about myself. You've started many threads (like this one) that generate a lot of interesting discussion, which is a big plus considering this is the off-season and there's practically zilch going on in skating. You should pat yourself on the back for your efforts.

[kwanluv]

She's no Sarah, but solid skates don't matter anymore as we saw time and again last season, so she has a very good shot.

[MKGrace]

The "_____ only wins due to politics" bash is pretty lame IMO, and getting veeeery boring. BGOI-ITA. By the end of this coming season I expect you'll be bored into a coma the way people are going after COP. If anyone but Michelle wins in SLC, it'll be attributed to collusion from Speedy, judges, manipulation of COP points etc. I'm not saying I like COP because I don't understand it, but I'm not ready to write it off completely because of the botched scoring at Worlds ladies' short program. Goodness -think of how many questionable judging decisions there were under the 6.0 system!

[Krista]

If anyone but Michelle wins in SLC, it'll be attributed to collusion from Speedy, judges, manipulation of COP points etc.


Leeeeeeets dooooooo the tiiiiiiime waaaaaaaarp againnnnn :b (sorry I couldn't resist ;) )

[mr pru]

Maybe the earth will pass through a spacial anomaly and we'll go back to the off season between '97-'98.

Then the Kween will have at least two more shots at Olympic gold.0] 0] 0] 0] :eek :)

[Krista]

:lol that would be great :D

[Tejada1981]

"If anyone but Michelle wins in SLC, it'll be attributed to collusion from Speedy, judges, manipulation of COP points etc."

In other words, the same old, same old. ;)

*edited out a comment*

[MKGrace]

mpru - Don't forget "the clandestine implementation of nenemic weapons together with covert insinuation of impact enhancing drugs." ;) 0] :|

[MKGrace]

Dragonlady- As usual, you speak the truth. ITA on all counts.

When someone beats Michelle, their skating and/or character and/or personality tend to take a beating here. I think Carolina and her skating are charming, but she's no Sarah. Carolina has yet to put together a solid free skate, and I think the pressure of performing at the Olympics in her home country, the expectations and media comparisons with Sarah that I think we'll hear a lot of, is going to get to her at the games. I think she'll be doing great to finish in the top 5 in Torino.

Edited: posted comments in wrong thread :o

[mr pru]

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

Please don't get me started on that "stuff"!!

What a wack job.

Live long and prosper.

[graciesfriend]

And don't forget all the alternative universes allowed in quantum mechanics!

We are not alone. 0]

[skatingfan5]

deleted because moderator already responded to question.

[kwanluv]

First of all, relax

Secondly, according to FAQ, if you have a question/problem you must e-mail mods only, and that would be me in this case. So re-posting the Irina comment again in this thread is not only annoying, but just plain rude.

Thridly, the Irina comment you made stated NO REFERENCE to it existing on another thread: you said it was the "Irina bash comment of the month" or something similarly snarky.

So IMO it had no place to be on this thread. And that's my call to make. Now I will edit your last post...again. And if you re-post this comment again you will get a warning. OK?

[kwanluv]

And don't forget all the alternative universes allowed in quantum mechanics!Indeed graciesfriend. :)
Just think, there'a already an alternate universe existing where Michelle's already a:

12-time US champion
1994-2005

10-time world champion
1996-2005

and 2-time Olympic gold medalist.
1998 and 2002

:eek :lol

[Tejada1981]

Oh I PM'ed you.

[mr pru]

Oops, there's that forward edge.;)

[kwanette]

Would anyone believe me if I said that I thought that Carolina was gawky long before last year's worlds? (I felt the same way about a 12 year old Sarah Hughes when I saw her live at Nats in 98..) Maybe some folks just don't like someone's skating.. and it doesn't matter if she beats Michelle.


Nate, I feel your pain. I always assume that what I see here from you is your best.


I always try to stay away from sexual, racial or ethnic comments..No good can come of them.

[Tejada1981]

Could someone explain to me why a moderator edited my post? All I said was that a person on another thread was making snide remarks about Irina's *edited*. It's true. It's still there. That offensive comment remains but my reference to it doesn't? Why?



Tejada1981

PM me if you want to discuss this more, and let me know which thread this "snide and offensive" comment is.
Otherwise please drop it now.

[MKGrace]

I don't get it. Check out the thread on Campbells/Japan International. There are a number of comments about Irina and steroids/medication suggesting the medicine is giving her an unfair advantage. Why is it a problem that the idea was mentioned here?

Edited: Never mind the rest. Doesn't make sense here.

[gratefulmkfan]

Get a clue, or at least sign up for some sensitivity training.

Then went on to imply that I had no sense by saying:
At least Mr Pru had the sense to apologize.

And I'm the one that needs sensitivity training? ROFL, sorry BGOI, but I am also an Italian-American, probably older than you are, and I thought it more important to help mr pru through his little stumble yesterday than to focus on the already edited thread. I would have done the same for you or anyone who genuinely felt bad for posting something that caused fallout.

If you want to artificially puff yourself up by putting me down again, go fot it, I won't be checking this topic again, but you can take out all the anger for your whole life on me. It doesn't make it my fault, but if it makes you feel better, go for it.

[Tejada1981]

Oops, there's that forward edge.

Your post is off topic and a dig at a poster. Yet it remains. :rolleyes

[patsue]

MkGrace--I take exception to YOUR erraneous remarks concerning steroids/medications, if, in fact, you are referencing my post in the Campbell's thread. First of all there are not numerous posts regarding the ISSUE you have brought up--I was the one who made a statement regarding steroids enabling Irina to keep up with a jam-packed competitve season--it's a well-known fact that Irina does take a steroid, without it she most likely wouldn't be able to compete--it helps her health-wise, which, I do not begrudge her in the least. Next time you read one of my posts I would appreciate you not putting your slant on what I was saying. Secondly--if I make a statement that is out-of-line I am usually fairly prompt to apologize without anyone esle having to get snarky with me. By the way, I still stand by my original post--the steroid Irina is taking is helping her stay on the ice.

[MKGrace]

:rolleyes

[EigthAv]

I'm lost. What is the topic???? Michelle's odds of the OGM,Slutsaya's medicine,"my feelings are hurt" or Kostner???

[kwanette]

Mike...:rollin ..I'm Kwanfused, too.

[GinnySmith]

Welcome to the off season at MKF. Enter at your own risk and Have A Nice Day! :D

[Krista]

ditto the kwanfusion here :b

[uglygreekgoddess]

there's only one reason why kostner is world bronze medalist- $peedy. do all of you honestly think that if she represented let's say, finland, that she would have even come close to the podium? HA! the judges just wanted her on the podium this year so they could pimp the heck out of her next year. let's take a trip back to worlds in germany where she placed 5th overall after she fell all over the place in the LP... oh yeah remember that 5.9 for tech? haha, that was classic. the deals already have been made for turin.

[mr pru]

Must resist urge to comment and agree....:smokin

Must keep firm forward edge before lifting off.....:angel

Just didn't like the p-word in previous post.:eek

[kwanluv]

patsu, thank you, I completely understood the context of your "steroid" comment in the other thread and you don't have to explain it, although I appreciate you doing so.

This is it.

This thread is now closed, and several posters will be receiving warnings.