RACE: Does the card still matter?

[kwancierto de aranjuez]

In our times where we are supposed to have advanced socially from 30 years ago or even 10 years ago, does race still matter in America?

Another question is whether it should matter?

[kwancierto de aranjuez]

I really hate it when someone says you playing the race card. That is the most ignorant, privileged and unknowingly racist statement to me.

It is as if as a person of color, you should bring up race because our society is supposed to have moved on from the whole concept of race. But in honesty, as a person of color, race is very much a part of my daily life whether I think about it or not. It is not a luxury or privielege that I do not have. I can neither change my skin color or change the shape of my eyes. Nor would I want to.

To me saying that I am playing the race card is tantamount to telling me that I shoul ignore a big portion of my life and a REAL facet of reality.

Race exists. Originally, race was founded on the whole notion of being biologically based. That is a fallacy. Race has no biological basis. A white person and a black person (and it alsways comes back to black and white unfortunately) has so much more in common than different and that you will find as much difference between black people. That said, race does exist because while it may not necessarily have a biological basis, it is a socially constructed and socially reinforced institution. Race is a concept not so much about skin color but power. Race is an institution to classify people to groups that have power and have no power. With this power struggle we attach ideas to these so-called groups.

It's no jke when cabs will pass you by because of your "race" or when you don't get that loan or when people avoid you or when you don't get that job because you're of a certain race. Racism is not just an individual it is a system. There are three type sof racism: institutionalized, individualized and internalized racism.

I think race in our times still matter because differences in human conditions in the United States are dran on racial, gender and class line. It's not hard to see why there is a correlation between race and class as well as gender and class.

Of course, we all want to live in an America where race shouldn't matter but the answer isn't in ignore it race, its in facing it head on and realizing that a majority of American it is a part of their daily experience whether they know it or not.

[attyfan]

Yes, it does. There was a case, recently argued before the US Supreme Court showing that prosecutors still kick potential jurors off the panel because of their race; the problem of "racial profiling" is another big issue; and movies or TV shows are often boycotted because of the way they portray members of a given race or ethnic group.

[JerryStopher]

I notice that the person who posed the questions was the first to answer ...

And the answer was a good one, in my opinion. Classifying people as groups, according to their ancestry, is very real in America, and has not gone away atall.

Some things have changed: a little African-American girl tried to kiss my grandson after school yesterday, and no one freaked out. Well, Drake isn't into kissing (these kids are 6 years old, ending kindergarten), and he shied away, but ... nobody looked cross-eyed about it. When I was in school, it couldn't have happened, because there were no African-American kids at Thibodaux Elementary in those days. But the little Roman-Catholic girls decided to single me out as a boy not to be kissed. I overheard one of them tell another, "I wouldn't kiss Stopher, me! He's Protestant!!"

We were renting a car today, and both the car-rental agency clerks (Enterprise Rent-A-Car) were African-American, while most of the clients were European-American. No one was stomping around gritching about the loss of separateness in Texas.

I did fall in crush with that anesthesiologist not long ago, when I was having surgery. Her name was Kim Nguyen, and that may be a hint: she was Asian-American. Did that matter to me? Not a bit.

Most of us, I think, are getting along pretty well.

But a teacher here just won a lawsuit, because a principal refused to hire her for a position for which she is qualified and certified, because, he said, she was "the wrong color." So there is still a problem with "race" in America.

There shouldn't be, in my opinion, because there is only one race: human. But the problem does still exist, and ought to be confronted and dealt with.

[EigthAv]

I would be cool with all orf us being of the human race and all being citizens of Planet Earth.If you insist on labels and we get to claim America and a specific continent,call me European American.White isn't exactly the case.I'm not "as white" as my Asian American friends in North Alabama.If they get to be Asian American,I get to be European American.:lol Tell our more radical comics and vocal artists to stop exploiting race.I hear the "n word" nowadays mostly at covenience store/gas islands blasting from a motor vehicle stereo.It's called "rap". You also get to hear the "m-f word". Why do they wait until they are sure they have an audience to crank up the volume??? Cool to be rude?

[kwancierto de aranjuez]

I really like this discussion so far...

Everyone is right that race should be a factor and that there really is just one human race... That said, is it okay for a person to be proud of their race? Afterall, if race is a daily part of many persons of color in America, should they shy away from that identity.

What about "whiteness?" Can you say that one should be proud to be white?

What about the whole notion of white privilege? Anyone ever heard of the "ghetto pass?"

There is a difference between a little child kissing each other but did you know that there is a psychological study that many people are scared of African-American males? The study showed that when they were around an African American male, their heart-rate went up.

It isn't just about white men with white hoods anymore, racism is an institution in America. How do we begin to deconstruct it and how do we begin to face white privilege, male privilege, heterosexism, etc.?

What do you guys think? How do we deal with these institutions

[donnylutz]

As just another white guy....I'm still given white priviledge........so that just proves this country still has massive racial issues........and there's no way a white guy could fully understand it.......white guys can only stand up and speak for themelves, and think about what there saying....

donnylutz :)

[kwancierto de aranjuez]

donnylutz, you are not just another white guy...

you realize you're own privilege when many people don't realize it and benefit from it... I think you should be commended for owning up to it and thank you for being an ally...

As a male, I also have to recognize my own privilege...

...Now Affirmative Action. Did yo know that the group that benefitted most from Affirmative Action have been white women? But opponents of Affirmative Action always think that it is persons of color that has benefitted the most.

[JerryStopher]

Kwancierto, I wonder how many people on this very thread make assumptions of that sort ....

Look at what I told, about the teacher who was told she was the "wrong color" for a position: do most here assume anything about what woulda been the "right color"?

Is it ever fair or wise to assume anything?

[Jayjen36]

It would be wonderful if we could simply see each other as human beings, a Black man or an Asian woman, just people. But that's not the world that we live in.

I was thinking about this. Often when someone of color talks about prejudice that person is accused of living in the past. But racism exsits. And it must be dealt with by people of color regularly.

Something simple, like speaking to your child when they begin driving changes with race. Someone not "of color" might tell their child to stop when a police car pulls them over, just give all of the information asked for calmly and you should be okay. With the same situation in talking to my nephew, a young African-American male, my sister had to be more elaborate.

She had to tell my nephew to always make sure that he stops in an area where there are people, never to look the police officer directly in the eyes as some see it as confrontational, to move slowly and deliberately so they don't think that he has a weapon, to always have the phone numbers of where she and her husband were just in case he was accused of having stolen the car, never to have more than two other people in the car with him if they are also black males, and in coming to our neighborhood always be able to give them our names and address in case he is stopped and asked why he is in the neighbor hood, this actually happened to my mother, a fifty-year old woman once. It may seem like over-kill to some, but as a parent of a young black man you cannot allow them to grow up and go out into the world without knowing these things.

So yes things have changed, but racism still exists. From very serious situations like this one, to an incident in which I was on a bus with a book about ballet that had a picture of Baryshnikov on the back. A White woman took one look at me, chuckled and said in a very condescending voice, "um, tell me has he been in town lately?" her thought being that I couldn't possibly know who this man was, this town isn't exactly a cultural center. And in an equally condescending voice I chuckled and said "Well, I certainly don't believe so!":rolleyes You just sort of have to get used to those kinds of things. And you do, you get used to it.

[donnylutz]

This is all so horrible! While I find myself fighting and being an activist in many areas......(glbt, women, native american, etc....), when it comes to race issues, it has such an enormous impact on me because it's SO STUPID! All hatred and racism is horrible, but you'd think in 2005 that there still wouldn't be people that can't deal with someone that doesn't look like them! Excuse my language, but it really pisses me off!

And yes, I may be a step "above" other white guys because I admit to my "given privilidge", but I really don't think that's enough. When I'm walking down the street in Minneapolis at night......I feel more comfortable with a white person walking behind me then I do with an African American behind me......WHY? I've never been hurt or assaulted or anything by eather white or african american people.........so why do I feel that way?

I just gave a whole speach on this type of stuff....can you tell? :)

A very wise professor told me that people that grow up in this society are filled repeatedly with "poison." It's only when people ask "WHY" that things can start to change.

ANy ways....I'm gonna stop no before I go off the deep end and spew out a few pages!!!!

Donnylutz :)
:RB

[Maeve]

Last year, Snoop had a skit show on MTV for a while... One of the skits showed a young African American guy in different situations, and he pulled out a little business card that said "The Race Card" to get his way. At the end of the skit, the guy went into an interview with a middle-aged white man. Things started to go south and the African American guy pulled out his Race Card. The middle-aged white man then took a huge, person-sized placard that said THE OPPORTUNITY CARD and beat the African American guy over the head with it.

That skit just says it all for me. Funny how the Opportunity Card holders are always the ones crying FOUL!...

[kwancierto de aranjuez]

I call the opportunity card the privilege card...

Jayjen, this is why it infuriated me when I saw that child handcuffed and people couldn't see the ramification of race in the matter... Of course it mattered...

I am of Filipino descent and I remember the struggles my father went through because of our ethnicity. He was a high ranking lawyer and even went into politics in the Philippines and when he came here and worked for companies here in the U.S., he was always passed over other white males. He was up for promotion oncein a company he worked at in the Los Angeles, and the job ended up going to a younger white counterpart. My mother has very similar experiences.

I just remember my mother saying that I have to work not just hard but even harder... I couldn't understand why then... but now that I am in the working world I truly understand that as a person of color I am in a deficit... many more are benifitting from the Privilege card...

The Privilege card wins over the Race card anyday!!!

As far as assumptions go, I think it is a natural part of the human being to make assumptions about things and people, it is when we put assumptions above openness that is dangerous. I always make assumptions about people, but I also acknowldge that at any time, my assumption can be wrong.

[memememe76]

.If they get to be Asian American,I get to be European American.:lol

What, you never heard of Irish-American or Italian-American?

[kwancierto de aranjuez]

As people of color, we don't have a privilege of forgetting about our skin color. You can choose to say your European-American... we don't have the choosing of choosing not to be or be treated as African-American or Asian-American or Latino.

[kwancierto de aranjuez]

Just continuing the dialogue...

[Lisa Seye]

Yes race is still an issue and I think internalized would be the hardest to fight against.

As you know I am white, but my husband is not. Try being African with a Muslim name and see how far you get especially these days. Job after job after job my husband has tried to get and even gone thru temp agencies. The agencies tell him he is the only client they had with a college degree. Hmm sounds good right? Promising? So they call him and say, we have a job for you, call us for details. EVERY time he called back the job had been mysteriously filled. By whom if the agency is responsible for filling the positions? And I am not talking just a few times either. I am talking hundreds of times. And it is not as if my hubby is not qualified either or has anything in his background to keep him from getting a job.
He wanted to move back to his country where he would have no problem getting a job. I made all the plans to move us over there while he went back to feel out things. This was last year and he had a job within three days. Came back here to the U.S. and still no job. Gotta get out of this area and see if a larger city will be better. Anyway, I am rambling. Hubby never experienced this prior to coming to America.

[Ogre Mage]

I think this topic has additional resonance at the moment because we have a top-tier African-American candidate for President (Barack Obama), a highly qualified but lesser known Latino candidate (Bill Richardson) and a top-tier woman candidate (Hillary Clinton) although the gender card is perhaps a separate issue.

To be sure, Obama has not run explicitly as an African-American in the way Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton have. I think he deliberately appeals to a broad audience, although in some quarters in the black community he has been accused of not being "black enough." Some of this is due to the fact he grew up in Hawaii and overseas and thus was not directly rooted in the struggles of the civil rights era. Obama and his close friend Mass. Gov. Deval Patrick attended Harvard Law School and saw the corridors of power from the inside -- an experience which sets them apart from black leaders of an earlier generation.

I would like to think that the fact Obama is being taken so seriously as a Presidential candidate shows how far we have come on the issue of race. He is a gifted man who I think will have a bright future regardless of what happens in the Presidential race. Over time, candidates of color have worked to have more crossover appeal to the mainstream and the mainstream has become more accepting of minority candidates. But the current debate about Obama's "blackness" shows the race card is still alive and will continue.

[cmacd]

I work at a great company. One of the courses that were required was called "Race and Gender". It was a course that basically "ticked" everyone off during the two days.

Day 1: Race. The whites were told they didn't know what it was like to be black. The blacks were told they were a bunch of Uncle Toms. Many people were so ticked off -- but the reality was it was to show us awareness -- make us think differently -- challenge our status quo. And it was very effective.

Day 2: Male versus female. The men were told that they belittled women by their jokes, their attitudes, etc. The women were told they allowed it to happen - we supported the men in what they were doing.

We had an exercise in which someone had to hold a glass of water on top of their head while they sang the National Anthem. Everytime they made a mistake -- the instructor ridiculed them unmercifully. The point of the exercise -- none of us sitting around the room came to his defense (now after sitting through day 1 and having this instructor "in our faces" - I personally thought anyone who volunteered to participate in his exercise deserved anything they got -- :-) but that wasn't the point).

So - we all learned -- that by sitting back and thinking this is not acceptable but never stepping up and taking a stand - we were as bad as the person doing the ridiculing.

Again - painful exercise - but very insightful. (Almost like the blue eyes/ brown eyes exercise of the 60's).

[aaronts]

coming from a "mixed" background, i'm often confused for any number ethnicities/races. while it can be fun to let people wonder, it's also weird to hear things you know wouldn't have been said in front of you if they knew what you were.

sadly, i'm much more aware of race than when i was younger. i used to think black people who cried "prejudice" so often were exaggerating. that white supremacists were relegated to the back woods of places like Arkansas & Alabama. that jewish people couldn't be prejudiced because of the holocaust. boy, was i wrong......

a jewish friend of mine was told by her "hip" grandparents that if she didn't stop dating the great black guy she was going out w, she'd be disowned. she left him & had a white boyfriend (non-jewish) sometime after who ended up cheating on her & giving her an STD. on the other hand, i feel like i constantly hear the word "jew" (in a sarcastic tone) to refer to jewish people from people who shouldn't open their mouths if they don't know a "jew" from a goy.

i have 2 good friends who are white policemen who have both advised that a racist jerk who becomes a police officer is now a racist jerk police officer. they do profile unnessecarily & stick together when they're caught.

i've experienced that black people, latinos, indigineous peoples & asians are much more welcoming in general to white people & each other than white people to them.

i've experienced that while some asians tend to assimilate better to "white" culture than other ethnicities/races, they can also be very prejudiced towards those "beneath" them. one of my best friends, who's chinese, told me that her mother accused her treating her mom "worse than those black & hispanic kids treat their parents" - as if she knows any black or hispanic people..... (in this case, she really doesn't)

i'm puzzled by the current "hip-hop/rap" black youth culture's attempt at getting by in society. at some point, saying things like "i ax'd her" & "baby mama" outside of music is only going to further worsen an already deep, deep stereotype. i'm saddened when i hear rappers w money, acting as if there's any reason in hell that they're on the street shooting out w an opposing gang. since there shouldn't be a need for gangbanging, it's glamourizing a horribly tragic part of our society - which needs no glamourizing.

while there are great examples out there of people who see past this, whether easily or w work, this is a sad, sad world we live in when a hispanic man dressed in a suit shopping at a premium mall gets the same treatment as a bum off of the street. prejudice is alive & well & is going to take a lot more than agreeable discussion here, but it's good to discuss nonetheless~

[lavender]

I think race matters big time and it will never go away as long as people classify people a certain way. It's just like blake (tennis player) mentioned how they describe him as the whatever number black guy to do this or that. Why is that as important. Shouldn't it be just what blake did and not that he's black or biracial. This bugs his mother to no end. Stop putting people in boxes.

[Skatekwan6]

yes, the race card still matters. Anyone who suggests otherwise is probably racist or so deep in denial that his or her opinion doesn't even matter.

[Lisa Seye]

I think this topic has additional resonance at the moment because we have a top-tier African-American candidate for President (Barack Obama), a highly qualified but lesser known Latino candidate (Bill Richardson) and a top-tier woman candidate (Hillary Clinton) although the gender card is perhaps a separate issue.

To be sure, Obama has not run explicitly as an African-American in the way Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton have. I think he deliberately appeals to a broad audience, although in some quarters in the black community he has been accused of not being "black enough." Some of this is due to the fact he grew up in Hawaii and overseas and thus was not directly rooted in the struggles of the civil rights era. Obama and his close friend Mass. Gov. Deval Patrick attended Harvard Law School and saw the corridors of power from the inside -- an experience which sets them apart from black leaders of an earlier generation.

I would like to think that the fact Obama is being taken so seriously as a Presidential candidate shows how far we have come on the issue of race. He is a gifted man who I think will have a bright future regardless of what happens in the Presidential race. Over time, candidates of color have worked to have more crossover appeal to the mainstream and the mainstream has become more accepting of minority candidates. But the current debate about Obama's "blackness" shows the race card is still alive and will continue.

Yes I cannot understand the issue of Obama's "blackness." Somebody has to open the door so others can come through. If white America is not ready to accept someone who is "black enough" but will accept Obama because of his "whiteness" it means that America is one step closer to accepting someone who is "black enough."
However, I do understand though that people do want someone who is looking out for issues that relate to them. Also, I do wish America was ready to accept an African American president. I think America just might be ready. With Obama, I think we are closer than we have ever been. It is quite exciting to be this close to history in the making. I wish there was not an issue about his "blackness" because it only divides the people who could possibly get him elected.
Of course I am white and may not have the right perspective about it, so please give me another perspective if you think I am incorrect.

[aaronts]

"blackness" makes no sense on the political stage, but "black" does (in terms of race issues in this country). we need someone who is capable & competent as a leader. if people think we're not ready for a black leader, is anyone asking why? if some black people think he's not black enough ("blackness" meter), is anyone asking why?

there are times when i think a black person has to go all "ghetto" to get respect from some ignorant black people. i know that's not what blackness means in this instance, but it's just as foolish IMO. Obama is half black & whatever experience he's had in life is a "black experience". yes, most black people don't attend Harvard, but neither do most white people, asians, latinos, etc.. many politicians have attended ivy league schools however, & that puts him right in line w education expectations for his contemporaries, regardless of race.

i was watching Bill Maher the other day, just an hour or so after watching the View (Tevo is the best!). i can't believe how much people in the media mention how Hillary may be unelectable as a woman who appears cold, yet never push competency as what viewers should be interested in 1st & foremost. i know people want to "like" their candidate of choice, but isn't competency the bigger issue here? great if you can get both, but i know for sure that i'm going for who i feel is going to best run this country, & whoever that ends up being, i know it won't be because they're of a specific race or sex~

[Lisa Seye]

I agree that I would not vote for someone based on race or gender.
The poll I posted in another thread shows many folks value character over the candidates policies. So if one has not made a good impression character wise, it may not matter how competent they seem or what policies they want to push as long as they seem honest.
I value character, too, but I listen to the policies as well as try and decide if the candidate is competent. It may be hard for some voters to not be swayed by a candidate's persona. Guess this is why voters suffer dissatisfaction after the election :D