Anyone seen the movie The Motorcycle Diaries?

[Krista]

I bought it this weekend and watched it, and I am really glad I did. It was an excellent story about Ernesto"Che" Guevara(he helped start the Cuban Revolution) and his friend who take a 5000 mile trip in South America. It definitely helped me understand where he was coming from more, and view him differently. And I would say that normally a movie wouldn't affect me that much, but Che's friend is still alive and living in Cuba, and he helped with the facts etc on the movie, so the movie is actually reputable. There is even an interview with his friend, on the DVD.

I also didn't realize the CIA had a part in his death, which is a bit annoying. I understand that Communism hasn't ever gone well when tried in countries, because usually it results in a dictatorship, but this movie helped me slightly understand that not everyone who is communist, is bad. It seems most of them have an idealistic view of wanting to help people. Frankly I don't think communism could really ever work, but I can respect that many people who support it, really and truly just want equality for everyone, and no poverty. Its a bit too much of a utopian view of things really, because human emotions etc usually come into play and there will always be jealousy regardless of money etc, but it is something to wish for. And what a world it would be if everyone looked out for everyone else willingly.

Anyhow, just some rambling thoughts lol.

Good movie, definitely recommended.

[bjb22]

It was a good movie (even with subtitles). We may have lost most of our freedom with the Judeo-Communist victory of 1945 but we still enjoy terrific movies.

[Jayjen36]

I saw the advertisements for the pay-per-view showing of this movie and wondered who the heck this guy was they were talking about. Now I know:) I may try to pick it up some time and see it. But, I just saw Sometimes in April a couple of weeks ago, and maybe I'll see Hotel Rwanda when I can work up the enthusiasm to see that kind of movie again. Is this movie along those lines?

[Krista]

It was a good movie (even with subtitles). We may have lost most of our freedom with the Judeo-Communist victory of 1945 but we still enjoy terrific movies.

err .........come again? O.o

[Krista]

Jayjen, The Motorcycle Diaries is a pretty uplifting film. I haven't seen Hotel Rwanda, but I know there is quite a bit of tragedy in that movie, although Im not sure about the ending.

The Motorcycle Diaries deals with injustices that Ernesto and his friend see, but it also has quite a few lighthearted moments.

They basically go on a 5000 mile journey through South Africa with a Lepper colony being their destination point, because they are both into medicine.

[Sparks]

Thanks for the movie recommendation...I have wanted to see this movie for some time. Jayjen - what is Sometimes in April about?
DMBChic, if you are interested - - what the CIA did to Che wasn't the first time, nor the last time they made a huge faux pas...all in the name of fighting Communism.
May I recommend reading The Poisonwood Bible, by Barbara Kingsolver. Overall, the story is a fictional account of a missionary family living in the Belgian Congo in the 1950's. The backdrop is not fiction...the author does an excellent job of detailing the conflict and de-colonization in the Belgian Congo at the time, and what the US government/CIA did to subvert the country's first real election.
Another book to read is Paula, by Isabel Allende. This is a non-fictional account about Isabel's life and what happened before, during and after the Chilean revolution. Salvador Allende was Isabel's uncle. The Fascist Dictator of Chile, Pinochet, still lives in Spain (I believe) and has never been brought to justice.
Isabel Allende wrote the book while sitting at her daughter's (Paula) bedside when she was in a coma. It can be a heart-wrenching read at times.

Sparks

[Krista]

Thanks for the recommendation Sparks :)

My mom has actually read The Poisonwood Bible. She said it was a bit slow going if I remember right, and I can't remember if she liked it or not. Ill definitely keep it in mind though (after harry potter lol)

[Jayjen36]

Sparks, Sometimes in April is a movie about the 100 days of genocide in Rwanda. They filmed it in Rwanda where all of the killings took place.

It's about a man who is a Hutu soldier who goes against his commander and tries to get his wife (who is Tutsi) and children to safety. The movie depicts courtroom testimony from some of the victims of horrible atrocities, and some of the atrocities themselves. It also shows the amount of apathy shown by the U.S. at the time, including a remarkable debate about just how many people have to die for such an event to qualify as genocide. Here's a quote from pbs.org's preview of the movie concerning the U.S. response to this horrific event:

Even after some 620,000 Rwandans have been killed, a U.S, government official states that while "acts of genocide have occurred," a designation of "genocide" itself has not been given; this would necessitate a U.N. intervention.

[kwancierto de aranjuez]

I think communism can work... what is lacking from the marxist/leninist/moaist thought is the transition of culture from a capitalist system to a system without class.

Marx and Lenin both said that technology and industrial advancement was too rapid for social change.

I think that in order for communism as an economic and political system, a change in sociology and psychology among the masses has to build first. You can't put a socialist system under people who've existed in a dog-eat-dog capitalistic system. Mao tried to do it through the Cultural Revolution, but I think the change The Red Guard tried to create too rapid and too rigid.

To me, true communism is not about everyone being the same but everyone having equal opportunity to become who they are without class being an issue.

Che Guevarra, Jose Maria Sison are all heroes which the US government have demonized...

[Krista]

Yeah I agree. Che, at least gauging from his friend talking of him, and reading about what he did etc, had a good heart and just wanted to help people.

And I agree with what you said about it not being able to happen too rapidly, or people just try to fall back into capitalistic ways again, then you have war etc. Not to mention you can't have a dictator leading everything.

I still think its very unlikely it will ever work though. For the most part its in human nature to compete. Not to mention there will always be feelings of jealously, regardless of income. It would be nice if it would all work, but I don't see it happening.

[kwanpistonsfan]

From the movie, Che struck me as an idealistic young person who wanted to lift the economic oppression and suffering from his people. I don't think he stood for "Communism" per se, because he didn't seem like he was after the absolute political power that comes with it, unlike many Communist leaders are. And in the end, I believe it was his idealism that lead to his death. He was too naive, unlike his more pragmatic, seasoned counterpart Castro.

[candygirl559]

Gee, it's nice that there are people on this planet who are willing to praise the Cuban version of Heinrich Himmler.

I don't care if the CIA did kill that ******* but I'm glad he's dead and I'd burn his tombstone if he had and if I ever saw it.

[kwanpistonsfan]

If I recall correctly, weren't the Nazis extremely intolerant of differing opinions?

Am I wrong because I don't view the world as black and white, Communists as evil pond-scum and Capitalists as saintly saviors? I see people for what they are, because I don't believe political affiliation alone defines someone's identity. A political system is made up of human beings, and therefore in any political system there will be good people and bad people.

Do you think Oskar Schindler was evil simply because he wore a swastika for a period of time?

Do you think Lenin was absolutely evil just because he believed in Marxism, even though through the Russian Revolution he modernized an entire nation and liberated the Russian peasants from the despotic oppression of the Tsar?

Do you think the Nicaraguan Contras were inherently "good" simply because they opposed the socialist Sandinistas, even though the Contras were considered terrorists by many human rights groups, using brutal tactics targeting innocent civilians?

The world is not black and white. I am lucky to be living in the freest country in the world and within a political system that is as close to perfect as is humanly possible. I am grateful for this every single day when I wake up. However, I can still recognize that political beliefs don't always dictate someone's humanity (or lack thereof). And in fact, I firmly believe that only by living in America could I have had the freedom of thought to come to this conclusion.

[candygirl559]

If I recall correctly, weren't the Nazis extremely intolerant of differing opinions?

So are the communists in Cuba and the liberals in the US.

Am I wrong because I don't view the world as black and white, Communists as evil pond-scum and Capitalists as saintly saviors? I see people for what they are, because I don't believe political affiliation alone defines someone's identity. A political system is made up of human beings, and therefore in any political system there will be good people and bad people.

As long as it's made up of people who agree with you.

Do you think Oskar Schindler was evil simply because he wore a swastika for a period of time?

He didn't do anything evil while Che Guevara did.

Do you think Lenin was absolutely evil just because he believed in Marxism, even though through the Russian Revolution he modernized an entire nation and liberated the Russian peasants from the despotic oppression of the Tsar?

Obviously you like the guy. I despise him and see no difference at all between him and Hitler.

Do you think the Nicaraguan Contras were inherently "good" simply because they opposed the socialist Sandinistas, even though the Contras were considered terrorists by many human rights groups, using brutal tactics targeting innocent civilians?

Obviously the Nicaraguans thought the Contras were good. I also thought they were good as well. It's also funny how you forgot to mention the human rights abuses by the Sandinistas.

The world is not black and white. I am lucky to be living in the freest country in the world and within a political system that is as close to perfect as is humanly possible. I am grateful for this every single day when I wake up. However, I can still recognize that political beliefs don't always dictate someone's humanity (or lack thereof). And in fact, I firmly believe that only by living in America could I have had the freedom of thought to come to this conclusion.

Yet you think nobody else in this world should have the chance at the same freedoms we have with your advocating of Marxism.

[Emerald2000]

Quote:
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Do you think Lenin was absolutely evil just because he believed in Marxism, even though through the Russian Revolution he modernized an entire nation and liberated the Russian peasants from the despotic oppression of the Tsar?
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Obviously you like the guy. I despise him and see no difference at all between him and Hitler.


You have *got* to be kidding me. Did you pay any attention in history class? Lenin was a political idealist who, while not the answer to Russia's problems, was not an evil despot who presided over the deaths of millions of his countrymen. How can you even make a comparison between the two? Hitler gave the go-ahead to wipe out an entire race of people just because of their religion. His triumph of the "Aryan Race" led to the deaths of millions of innocent Jews, Homosexuals, Gypsies, and those suffering from physical and mental handicaps.

If you can't see the difference between a racist, homicidal nutcase like Hitler and a slightly severe but hardly murderous political leader, than you are truly suffering from one of the worst kinds of ignorance.

[kwanpistonsfan]

So are the communists in Cuba and the liberals in the US.

And yet, you're the one who's equating liberalism with Communism? Leave the name-calling in the schoolyard. Adults come up with things called "arguments."

As long as it's made up of people who agree with you.

Agree with me that calling people "evil *******s" after they're dead isn't exactly the most noble calling? Yeah, we should be locked up...next thing ya know, we could be protesting the Iraq war.

He didn't do anything evil while Che Guevara did.

Do you really think, besides God, there's anyone in this world who's completely sinless? Oh, right, that's you, got it.

Obviously you like the guy. I despise him and see no difference at all between him and Hitler.

And obviously you loathe him. See, when you loathe someone, the burden of proof usually lies on you. Saying he's like Hitler doesn't cut it.

Obviously the Nicaraguans thought the Contras were good. I also thought they were good as well. It's also funny how you forgot to mention the human rights abuses by the Sandinistas.

If by "Nicaraguans" you mean the wealthy landowners who were left alive, and by "good" you mean "they weren't any more evil than the Sandinistas," then I guess you're right. If the Nicaraguans really thought the Contras were good, the Contras would be in power today.

Yet you think nobody else in this world should have the chance at the same freedoms we have with your advocating of Marxism.

Again with the name-calling. Do you really think you're making me look bad? Think again. Because people only resort to name-calling when they can't think of an actual argument to back up their indoctrinated ideas. Never mind, silly me. You probably didn't learn about rational debate in your "Liberals Are Evil" class at Yale.

[kwancierto de aranjuez]

Okay, this thread deteriorated to a you're vile and I'll burn you down thread... what happened?

Call me idealistic, call me a commie lover, call me a dictator, call me whatever you want... Spit on me all you want... Burn down my grave when I die... I won't do the same to you.

Political and Economic Systems themselves are not good or evil, it is the people that governs that are good and evil.

John Locke, I am sure, himself was quite idealistic in his view of capitalism... I can easily argue that capitalism does not work as it creates puppet administrations...

Power to The People!!!

May the Lord bless you today.

[olympic]

Candygirl,

Oskar Schindler did nothing wrong?? He was a Nazi factory owner and war profiteer in Krakow Poland. He exploited Jews and other "undesirables" for slave labor during WW II. He only redeemed himself later by trying to save the Jews that worked for him, actually going to jail and risking his life to do so. But he didn't start out that way.

Please bone up on the facts before you make blanket statements like "he did nothing wrong"

[Krista]

Candygirl, have you SEEN The Motorcycle Diaries? and that goes for anyone else in this thread. I was curious as to what people thought about che guevara after seeing that movie, and the other things that were in the movie. Go see the movie THEN come discuss here. Criminitly.

[elliebea]

DMB - Thanks for a good discussion about an interesting-sounding movie!

[tongueincheek]

Methinks candygirl is confusing Lenin with Stalin. Lenin was a very cruel man, but I could never equate him with Hitler. Stalin? Yeah, he was as bad. And those of you who are attempting intelligent debate with candygirl are very brave. From what I have read in other threads, candygirl's posts are full of heated rhetoric with a heavy dose of Rush influence. No facts nor objectivity.

DMBChic, I had heard the movie was good, but I didn't have it on my list until I read your post. I will put it in my Netflix queue, as it sounds like the sort of historical film I would really enjoy. Thanks for the tip.

Marxism/Socialism/Communism sounds fair in theory, but I agree with those of you who say it couldn't work because of human propensity for greed, jealousy and self-entitlement. I always think of Orwell's Animal Farm.

[Krista]

Just to add: The movie is about him when he was only 24 years old and had almost completed medical school. There were political undertones of the movie, but the whole movie wasnt all political. It does get you thinking about his life though, and how this shaped his future and his beliefs politically.

Che Guevara is a hero to many people in south america. Even the guy who played him in the movie said that growing up, Che was someone you learned about.

South America has some very corrupt countries as Im sure most of you know, and I think Che was a beacon of light for many of these people. Im not saying everything he did was great, but I don't believe he was some horrible criminal terrorist either.