Gay Issues

[manskater]

www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8303545/ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8303545/)
Bush calls for gay-marriage amendment
President reassures religious conservatives at Baptist meeting

This President continually astounds me and it is certainly not for his intelligence. Does he really think that he can legalize "inequality". I guess it should not be a surprise that this comes out of this White House since Mr Cheney who has a gay child has the gall to support this amendment. That's what I call unconditional love.:rolleyes


www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8234503/ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8234503/)
'Healed' by GodConservative Christians hold
conference to 'cure' gays

These people need to get a grip. I do not need "healing" and these so called 'christians' need to look at their own lives a lot more closely.>:

[Emerald2000]

Personally, I think America has bigger problems than worrying about certain people's sexuality. ("Where's Osama? Oh, who the hell cares, the Fab Five are the real threat.")

Homosexuality is not a choice...nor is it some terrible disease that needs a cure. Some of the nicest people I've ever met have been gay, and I refuse to believe that they're sinners because of their sexual preference.

[manskater]

Emerald -- I also believe that Bush is just tossing out the gay amendment issue again just to divert attention from as you mentioned,Osama and Iraq and his poor job approval and the lack of support for his social security plan and on and on.

This president loves to talk about being compassionate?? and bringing people together??.:rolleyes What a joke.

[Emerald2000]

Bush talks about being "compassionate", but it's clear that his compassion is extended only to a choice few. (As in, not gays.)

I read an article in The New Yorker about a school in Virginia called Patrick Henry University. It's baisically a training ground for extremely Christian conservatives who hope to participate in politics. One of the girls in the story is already working for Karl Rove (:x ), much to the envy of her classmates. Anyway, one of the "dangers" presented to the students in their curriculum is Homosexuality. I'd love for someone to walk up to these kids and be like, "It's just a sexual preference, people. Not the end of the world if their's is different from your's."

But that would never happen...because it's not in the Bible.

[4dogknight]

In evangelical world, a liberal view steps up - Following Carter’s lead, progressives work to transform movement (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8131907/)

{snip}
"When thousands of Southern Baptists gather later this month in Nashville for the annual meeting of the Southern Baptist Convention, former President Jimmy Carter, one of the world’s most famous Baptists, will not be there. He broke with the convention several years ago, distressed at its takeover by conservative Christian fundamentalists beginning in 1979.

In an interview last year with Newsweek, Carter bemoaned the “melding ... between the Republican Party and the more conservative Christians,” saying: “This is not only an anomaly, but I think is contrary to the best interests of our democratic principles.”

The Southern Baptist Convention is the largest evangelical Christian denomination in the world. Its alliance with political conservatives is just one part of the American evangelical community’s popular identification with the Republican Party, whose rise has been fueled by its identification with the religious right."

{snip}
Like Jimmy Carter, Tony Campolo is a tireless campaigner for social justice, especially for the poor, for the environment and for oppressed populations in the Third World. Like Carter, he is also an evangelical Christian — a Baptist minister, in fact.

Although many Americans see evangelicalism as a monolithic construct, “in reality, there are a whole lot of us evangelicals who think differently,” said Campolo, who founded the Evangelical Association for the Promotion of Education.

Campolo puts the proportion of “progressive” or liberal American evangelicals at 35 percent to 40 percent. Other scholars say that is probably too high; the leading authority on religious populations in America, John Green of the University of Akron in Ohio, puts it closer to 20 percent.

Whoever is correct, one thing is clear: There are millions of progressive evangelicals. And yet, the conventional wisdom resolves to a very simple equation: “Evangelical” = “religious right.”

{snip}
"Nancy T. Ammerman, a professor of the sociology of religion at Boston University, said that could describe many evangelicals. They occupy a great “muddled middle” in which they see some of their concerns — abortion and homosexuality, for example — reflected in conservative politics but don’t see an equal reflection of their commitment to biblical ideas of social justice.

“When you look at the polling data,” she said, “you’ve got these people who are anti-abortion and pro-environment and concerned about poverty, and, you know, they’re all evangelicals, and what are we going to call these people?”

Jesus as a radical
“In a nutshell, we hold to the same kinds of theology. We just read the Bible differently than our right-wing friends. When we read the Bible, we see a Jesus who is much more radical,” Campolo said.

Where he and other progressives see Jesus most differently is in the importance placed on compassionate treatment for the underdogs in society."

COMMENT: Looks like the Evangelicals don't like to be painted with the same brush. I thought the artical to be quite interesting and I did learn a few things.


Edited for spelling errors.

[EigthAv]

I'm lost already.Don't blind me with hotlinks to articles,tell me what it is you want and our master won't give. Be specific.I'm leary of clicking on hotlinks.I have an "olde school" web browser and sometimes hotlinks freeze and/or kick me offline.I have no problems with homosexuality provided you aren't practicing on children and aren't expecting me to come to your honeymoons.Gay isn't a race,isn't a religion and isn't an ethnicity,so I doubt you will ever get more rights than I have.I think American justice should come down harder on the greedy buzzards who use their money,power and influence to control a wife,mulitiple kocubines and all my would be girlfriends.Who cares????? Anyways,put the greivances out here and if they are fair,I will go to bat for youz.Okay,fair enough?

[manskater]

I have no problems with homosexuality provided you aren't practicing on children and aren't expecting me to come to your honeymoons

I'm hoping you are joking with this remark because if it is not a joke you are not very educated about the issue of discrimination based on sexual orientation.

Gay isn't a race,isn't a religion and isn't an ethnicity,so I doubt you will ever get more rights than I have.

Who the heck wants more rights than you:rolleyes . We want to be have "equal" rights. I want to know that if I work somewhere that a company will not fire me based on my sexual orientation. Our wonderful governor of Colorado vetoed an amendment to the state constitution that would have prevented that and yes companies do discriminate on that basis. I want to know that if my partner goes in the hospital that I will not be prevented to see him. I want to have the same legal rights with my partner as a "couple" that you and your wife,if you are married, have as a result of being married.

I hope your remarks concerning concubines etc are not making light of this issue which is close to many in this country and on this board.

Maybe you should check out the various websites on your own to see what is going on in our community since you cannot click on the links.

[kwancierto de aranjuez]

There are times when I want to revoke someone MKF "card" for just being outright ignorant...

[EigthAv]

I was being candid and straight on,as you guyz were.You don't know me,so don't automactically assume that just because I'm from Alabama,am a "straight" and didn't rush to kiss your cause,I am an anti.I will ask you again.........what,specifically,do you want? I honestly could care less what you do for pleasure and as I said,as long as it isn't mixed with kids,cool. I'd say that to a brutish bunch of girls gone wild hawks. Better still,forget it.I've never in my life done anything to stop anyone's happiness and have never participated in gay bashing,in the debate circles or on the streets.Someone raises his hand and offers to help and you spit at him? For the record,I could care less who marries who and it won't bother me at all if you marry your parakeet.It's all,including the hetero,so-called staright scene,your business,not mine.Sorry I interupted.

[kwancierto de aranjuez]

Mike, don't leave... A discussion about rights and discrimination will get heated and rightly so... I think what you're doing is such a copout...

You have to understand that when you have been oppressed for so long, it can sometimes easily come down to either you're a part of the problem or you're part of the solution.

The gay communnity doesn't want special treatment, they want equal rights. The right to marry the person that you love. The right to not be discriminated in the workplace or otherwise. BTW, most pedophiles are older white males who claim NOT to be homosexuals?

You don't have to participate in gay-bashing to oppress someone. When you outright sit on privilege based on someone's oppression, you are guilty of being a part of a system of oppression.

[EigthAv]

Kwancierto,it can get sticky switching gears from arguing the ideal of a man and woman who would rather live together without a "legal commitment" and then arguing the ideal of a man and man who do want the legal commitment,but aren't allowed the option.In both cases,I'm going against the church I was brought up on.Don't worry,I don't claim to know what God wants you to do.Gay marriage rights for Alabama don't look good for the moment.Neither party is openly commited to it,our governor isn't for it and as far as I know,his likely future democratic rival isn't going to go for it.I for one,don't want a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage.I don't want my "persuasions" crammed down anyone's throat.If both of you are truly in love and believe fully this is what you want,I give you my blessings.It's never worked out for me,but that doesn't permanently jade me on marriage. Hopefully,my "one and only" is out here somewehere and at some point before they tote me off to the glue factory,we will meet.I'll go you this......I will write a real letter,not an e-mail,to my congressman and tell him where I am on the issue.What are they gonna do,come get me and beat me for being a gay sympathysizer? Maybe a generation ago,but not in 2005.I'll do that.

[kwancierto de aranjuez]

What are they gonna do,come get me and beat me for being a gay sympathysizer?

Maybe someday, you'll not only be a sympathizer but also and empathizer.

There's an old saying that goes somethign like this?

When the trucks came for the Jews, I didn't do anything. When the trucks came for the gypsies, I didn't do anything.
When they came for the Blacks, I didn't do anything.
When they came for the homosexuals, I didn't do anything.
When they came for me...

When you let the rights of others simply go by the wayside, it won't be long until your rights also go by the wayside. Doing the right thing can be hard but you've got to stand up for your conviction even if it is unpopular. That's democracy. That time and again is the American way.

[manskater]

Eighth - I am glad to hear a clarification of your opinion. I would not have gathered that from your first post.

[mr pru]

This is 2005.

Does it matter what two consenting adults do in the private moments of their lives?

Live and let live.

Glass houses, throw stones and all that rig-a-marole.

To each his own.

[EigthAv]

Manskater,sometimes here and in the Skating Chat forum,I will intentionally toss a counter post in whether it's my real feelings or not. You don't really get much from a debate/discussion when everyone is on the same side.There was a time when I got labled by some around these parts,as a "Commie sympasizer" simply because I refused to hate average Soviet citizens.There have been occasions where I would be amongst black friends or gay friends and be not so politely invited to leave because they were ready to throw down on the respective antis and certain ones in the group thought I looked too much like those they were fixing to toss on the grill.As a part-time gigging bassist,I've worked with some good gay musicians over the years.The muse knows no boundaries,but sometimes the players are limited by them.This is one of those rare times when the PrusterMeister and I are in agreement. I am not so sure about the "anything" part in two consenting adults.For instance,if one of is so misarable that he/she wants to die and being a good friend and caring person,you relieve them of the misery,the whole deck can get re-shuffled.I'm not here to judge."Judge not,lest ye be judged". Amongst other things,I'm a fun loving,live and let live sort dude.I think the "pursuit of happiness" right needs to be explored a bit more.We've almost wore out freedom of speech and the gun totin' envelopes.I assume all the original freedoms are equally important to the balance and pursuit of happiness is one that I think might work well in the fight for gay liberation.I've seen freedom of speech used as the excuse to ride through quiet,otherwise peaceful neighborhoods blasting rather vulgar music at a gillion decibels and knew that pursuit of happiness was probably the "counter-right".Doesn't it mean,the right to be happy? I used it a couple of times whilst being hammered on a particular board(not this one) by a particular freedom of speech zealot.If my happiness is infringing on your speech or vice versa,we have a problem.If not,it's all cool. It's worth consideration.

[mr pru]

Nice post!

[pbluu]

This is a reference to EightAve. Your comments leaves me with this uneasiness.
It says alot about what u assume though. Why would would u assume that gay people would anymore likely than straight people to have sex with underage? Even if u don't assume this, why would u even lump gays with it at all?

I have seen and heard numerous times where people would say, it's fine as long as such and such (and usually it's either molestation, murder, or some kinds of sexual stuff).

One would never thinking of saying the same thing about other minority groups that are trying to get the same equal rights as everyone else.

Gays are easy targets because the US as a whole is very much homophobic.

[kwancierto de aranjuez]

Most pedophiles are older white males... should we assume that most white people are pedophiles or that most older people are pedophiles...