Right Wingers over here!

[ImJustAWittleGuy]

Ahh yes! This is totally my section! Anyone else a right-wing Republican?

Atty. WittleGuy:evil

[Corbon91]

Right wing Republican over here!! :)

[kwanfanatic2002]

Right Wringer Here !!.

Do you all know who Laura Ingraham is? Do you ever listen to her radio show? She was diagnosed with breast cancer and had surgery last week. She has to go back tomorrow for more. I wish her the best and hope she gets to the air very soon. I like her a lot, she does a great job. SHe is getting support from a lot of top political people in Washington. SHe must be doing something right.

[dec5]

Tony Snow also had colon cancer but is back at work too.
I glad that Laura and Tony are doing well......

[EigthAv]

Hello everybody.Okay,which way to the coffee? :lol

[kwanfanatic2002]

I was surprised to hear Laura on the radio this morning. I thought she was having surgery again today. They apparently found some more cancer close to the orginal spot and are going to remove it. Sounds like she will be Ok though. Thank God. I really like her.
I am so glad Tony Snow is back on the radio. He is on now, here. He has been talking about some breaking news regarding Hillary and Bill. I missed the first part of the news so I am not exactly clear what it is they supposedly did. He said it will probably be close to a month before it comes out. I don't know why it would take soooo long. I wonder if this will hurt her Presidential chances. If they wait tooo long, won't it be harder to believe. Isn't she up for reelection again in the Senate. That could be seen as suspicious with election time right around the corner.

Dec5, what happened to Ann Coulter yesterday or today when someone asked her a question. Apparently it caused a lot of turmoil. I like Ann a lot. SHe is not afraid to speak her mind. SHe rocks.
Hi Eighthave. The coffee is on here.!!!!

[dec5]

K2002, looks like Ann got some lude comments from a Liberal protestor..... Ann treated this person with
respect regardless, from the reports though.

The Liberal just wouldn't let anybody hear what Ann wanted to
say and the cops apparently had to give him the boot....according to Hannity.

Ann is such a class act..:)

[DaveSato]

Glad to see a conservative room. I don't want "THEM" over here. DOH!!

[kwanfanatic2002]

Dec5, I agree with you about Ann. She is a class act. So is Laura Ingraham. Did you hear Sean and Laura talking on her show. Sean told Laura he wants the first interview with the "Runaway Husband". Laura is getting married in June. It was funny, but I don' think Laura thought it was that funny.

Davesato, I completely agree with you.

[EigthAv]

Montgomery had a horrific incident today.Somehow,a deathrow inmate got loose,commandeered a police car,with the policeman's gun and the highway chase was on.After a shootout with a state trooper,the trooper had a gunshot wound to his hand and the deathrow dude was dead. Jennifer who??? Runaway bride??? Who cares? I hear would have been wedding guests are auctioning invitations and other wedding stuff on e-bay.:rolleyes

[moxie]

Sean told Laura he wants the first interview with the "Runaway Husband".

I wish at this point everyone would just leave them alone.
The bride's minister was being interviewed again (!) this morning on the "Today" show ... and said exactly the same things he said in the last two or three interviews he gave.

Aside from any legal charges that might arise, this should now be an entirely private matter.

[kwanfanatic2002]

Yes, I agree. I am tired of hearing about them and tired of seeing Jennifer walking with the covering over her head.

Edited to add, the "runaway husband" was directed to Laura's future husband, by Sean. He was making a jab at Laura.

[kwancierto de aranjuez]

Hello Rightwingers... I'm a brother from the Leftwing side but I just wanted to say "hello" to all of you even if some of you don't want me (them) in here...

I hope you all have a good discussion...

[XPEG]

I'm a Republican, mostly agreeing with the conservative side, but in some areas I'm more liberal. Depends on the issue.

I'm sorry to hear about Laura. I sometimes get to hear her show and have liked it. Hope she makes it ok.

[kwanfanatic2002]

Hi XPEG, I like Laura too. i just looked on her web site and it says she is doign well and is coming back on Monday. YEAH!!!!. I like to listen to her. I like her "but"monkeys and the "lie of the day" SHe adds fun things to her show. I like Ann Coulter and Michelle Malkin as well. Ann Coulter is on the cover of a Time Magazine recently.

[dec5]

I love Michelle Malkin.....she is sooo cool.

[EigthAv]

I enjoyed catching President Bush's speech in Georgia on C-Span tonight. It is cool to know that all of Europe doesn't hate us Yanks.:lol The turnout for the speech was HUGE and I actually saw Georgians waving American flags.........rather than burning them.Cool.

[kwanfanatic2002]

There is a new video put out by the RNC calling the dems the party of "no". it has some comments made by Nancy Pelosi saying 'We don;t have to have a plan, we just have to stop the Republicans".

Senator Reid says"I don't care how long it takes, we will not back down".

US News and World Report columinst has called the Dems the "Party of "NO".
Video,Dems the party of "NO" (http://GOP.com)

It was clearly evident during the last election that the dems did not have a plan and they clearly don't have one now and don't intend to come up with one. I am very disillussioned with the Republicans now. We are the Majority now and they need to act like it. We are not going to be the Majority after the 06 election if they don't get some back bone and start acting like leaders. Espicially with the judicial appointments.

Did you all see Ann Coulter on the Tonite Show last nite? I meant to watch it, but was sooo tired I forgot to watch it. I can't stand Matt LeBlanc (JOEY) so I changed the channel. I am just wondering what Jay Leno had to say to her. DId he give her a hard time??

Laura Ingraham announced on her show this morning that she has ended her engagement to Jimmy. I feel so badly for her. She askd her producer this morning to blow the dark cloud away from her. My heart goes out to her. I bet it is hard for her to do her show now with all she is going thru.What a time to end a relationship. I guess it's better now than after they were already married. She has really been on a tear lately about the judges and other problems. i wonder how much her personal situation has to do with it. I wish her the best and a very speedy recovery.

I missed seeing the speech from Pres. Bush. I'm glad to hear it went well.It is good to know that not all the yanks hate us.

[moxie]

Did you all see Ann Coulter on the Tonite Show last nite? I meant to watch it, but was sooo tired I forgot to watch it. I can't stand Matt LeBlanc (JOEY) so I changed the channel. I am just wondering what Jay Leno had to say to her. DId he give her a hard time??

Perhaps you are confusing Leno with such politically-oriented hosts as Jon Stewart or Chris Matthews ...

I watch Leno nearly every night and have never seen him give a guest a hard time. (I missed the Coulter show, but will post a transcript as soon as I find one.)

Leno does take shots at political figures in his monologues. As far as I can tell, he criticizes Democrats and Republicans equally (though not always in the same night).

[kwanfanatic2002]

Moxiw, I am not confusing Leno with anyone. I know what I am talking about. I have heard him numerous times gives Republicans a hard time. HE is liberal it's pathetic. He definelty gives Republicans more of a hard time than Libs.

[kwanfanatic2002]

There is an article out regarding PBS and them wanting to institute some Conservative programing. The Dems are calling it "illegal".

2 Congressional Dems called Wednesday for an investigation into recent activities by the Corp. for Public Broadcasting, suggesting efforts by the Republican Chairman of the private non-profit to add more Conservative programs onto PBS may violate federal law.

They called actions taken Wednesday by the CPB Chairman Kenneth Tomlinson "disturbing" and "extremely troubling" .
Dems:Conservative Voices on PBS May be "ILLEGAL". (http://drudgereport.com)

OH PULEEEEAAAZE!!!!. Talk about blatant hyprocrisy. SInce when is talking about other viewpoints "troubling"????. Someone wants fairness and balance where they should be some, considering they are taking public funds to even exist, and the the dems are afraid of it. They call themselves "openminded", but try to shut down someone with an opposing viewpoint. How "opendminded" is that??????. I think this is a true example of the Democratic party being afraid and trying anything to shut the other party down. How can you expect people to contribute to them if they are sooo blatant with their bais. i would never send them a cent.

[moxie]

Moxiw, I am not confusing Leno with anyone. I know what I am talking about. I have heard him numerous times gives Republicans a hard time. HE is liberal it's pathetic. He definelty gives Republicans more of a hard time than Libs.


KF, we were talking about how Leno treats his GUESTS, not about the jokes he makes during his monologues (which poke fun at both sides; he's has some really funny zingers lately about Kerry & has had many Clinton jokes.).

Can you please name one GUEST (Republican or otherwise) who has been given a hard time by Leno? After all, during the GUEST segments, Leno chats with people & generally just lets them plug whatever book/movie/CD they have out. If anything, he isn't tough enough. Just PR-type softball questions.

But perhaps we are watching two different shows ...

[EigthAv]

Leno has entertained Bob Dole and Liz Dole on his show.If it seems like he is leaning on Bush/Cheney a bit for now,it is because they are in charge.When it was Clinton/Gore,they got more jokes.Nixon/Agnew jokes were cool back then.:lol My younger brother still has a 45rpm record of an impersonater doing Bobby Kennedy,singing "Wild Thing". It was a mnor hit record just before Bobby got whacked out.The more powerful you are,the more jokes you get.Goes with the territory.Even Laura Bush got in on the fun.Some of the funniest stuff I've heard was Joan Rivers throwing down on the Royal Family.Governor Arnold is fun to joke on because the voice is so cool.Ross Perot was another good one for comedy.......now,wanna buy sum wood????

[kwanfanatic2002]

From the NYTimes, Reid strayed from his prepared remarks yesterday on the Senate floor and promised to continue opposing one of President't Bush's judicial nominees based on the "a problem" he said is in the noiminees "confidenial reports" from the FBI. Severe sanctions apply to anyone who discloses there contents.

"Henry Saad would have been filibustered anyway", Mr. Reid said on the floor yesterday, about the Michigan Appeals Court Judge, nominated to the US Supreme Court of Appeals for the 6th Circuit.

All you have to do is have a member go upstairs and look at his confidential reports from the FBI and I think we would all agree there is a problem there", Reid continued. Republican staff members and supporters were outraged.

Reoublican aides pointed to Standing Rule of the Senate, including the business and proceedings of the Committee and SubCommittees and offices of the Senate shall be liable, if a Senator, to suffer EXPULSION from the body:, and if an officer or employee to dismassal all from the Service of the Senate, and to punishment for contempt".

Furthermore, a "Memorandum of Understanding "covering the use of FBI background reports limits access to committee members and the nominees and the nominees home state Senators. Mr Reid would fall into neither category .

Furious Saad supporters said they never heard abou the previous committee leak and called Mr. Reid's remarks an "unfounded smear", indicative of how many the debate over judge has become.

Michael Bouchard, a Michigan sheriff in Oakland County and a personal friend of Judge Saad, said he is "absolutely certain that the FBI file doesn't contain anything damaging.

"I think Reid is "LYING", He said "He's lying behind something he knows he'll never be asked to show."Henry
Reid is a "COWARD".
www.lauraingraham.com, Heny Reid Crosses the Line.

I wish the Republicans would get some backbone and prosecute Reid for this. If Reid was a Republican and did this, the media and dems would be all over it. They would be calling for him to be ousted and prosecuted. This will probably go nowhere and he will get away with it.
The media is once again showing their media bias by mis quoting Ken Starr and taking his words and misrepresenting them. Ken Starr has asked CBS for a copy of the transcript from an interview he gave them because they turned his words around to make it look like Starr is against the judicial nominees. CBS will never learn. Amazing how they can LIE and get away with it.
www.lauraingraham.com.

[youngatheart]

From Polipundit's Lorie Byrd (she claims no relation to the other Byrd): "If Democrats now believe confidential FBI files are fair game, then this could get fun. Can you imagine what must be in Ted Kennedy's file?" :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek :eek

[kwanfanatic2002]

I would love to get a look at Ted Kennedy's file. With his history, it would be an incredible read!!!.

I can't believe what the Democrats are trying to pull these days. I agree with Lorie Byrd, this could be fun. They need to be stopped though. They cannot be allowed to just do what they want and expect to get away with it.

[moxie]

It's well known that Ted Kennedy's alcohol abuse several decades ago resulted in the tragic death of a young woman.

What exactly do you expect to find in his FBI file that would be more shocking than this?

I'd like to see the FBI files of all our elected officials. Including our president, who had a drunken-driving incident (in his 30s) with his sister in the car. But Bush was luckier than Kennedy because his irresponsible behavior didn't kill anyone. But it could have.

[kwanfanatic2002]

Moxie since you obviously dislike bish so much, why don't you go to the other side. I said nothing about Kennedy and his drunk driving accident. I am well aware of Bush and his drunk driving. He is a far better man than Kennedy could ever dream of being. Kennedy can not even hold a candle to Bush,(any of them for that matter). I jus think Kennedy has a lot of skeletons in his closet because he is a Democrat, it is hidden.

[moxie]

I would love to get a look at Ted Kennedy's file. With his history, it would be an incredible read!!!.

KF, when you said "his history," to what were you referring if not his accident? Please explain.

And no, I don't hate "bish." I was just using his past incident as an example of behavior that could suggest that there are "skeletons" in his past, too. (Actually, he's said this himself.) So if we're going to look at FBI records, let's look at everyone's ...

Also, the moderators have left it to us to create as many political threads as we wish & did not create "right only" or "left only" threads. They just want us to try to remain civil.

So I will post where I wish, thank you.

[kwanfanatic2002]

Well then, try to remain civil. I seriously doubt Bush has skeleltons in his closet like Kennedy does. pleeeaaaze. ALong with his other liberal cohorts like the Clintons, B Boxer, N Peosi, Shumer,etc.

Here is a great short editorial about the Democratic party and it's supposed "leadership" and how out of control they are and desperate.
Will terrible leadership hurt the Dems?? (http://powerlinelbog.com)

[moxie]

I seriously doubt Bush has skeleltons in his closet like Kennedy does. pleeeaaaze.

Yes, please do tell me what skeletons you think are in Kennedy's closet. You said you thought Ted's FBI file would be interesting, given "his history," then said you hadn't brought up the accident.

If it isn't the accident (which happened 36 years ago and has been written about in depth as a matter of public record), then what is it?

What exactly is it that you think Kennedy is hiding?

For that matter, what "skeletons" do you think Pelosi, Boxer and their "cohorts" have? Or is it actually that you think holding some liberal (and/or moderate) views is enough to make one a criminal?

[madison]

Actually,
my mother recently told me a story about Laura Bush's skeleton in the closet. Does anyone know what she may have been referring to? I admit to being somewhat shocked, but I don't want to print it if there is no truth to it.
Anyone?

[kwanfanatic2002]

If you are going to bash Laura Bush, do it on thhe left leaning side . We don't need nor want it over here.

[moxie]

Actually, my mother recently told me a story about Laura Bush's skeleton in the closet. Does anyone know what she may have been referring to?

It's not really a "skeleton" because it's a matter of public record that she has talked about, and it's not a "bash" because it's a matter of fact:

When Laura Bush was barely 17, and a new driver, she ran a stop sign and got into an accident in which the other driver was killed. What is unusual is that the other driver wasn't a stranger; he was a popular boy in her school that she had either dated or wanted to date. This did raise some eyebrows, but in the end the incident was classified simply as a tragic accident. No charges were filed.

[kwanfanatic2002]

IF Motherlode was not meaning to bash anyone, she should have posted that on the left leaning side.

[moxie]

Why? I would think it would be the opposite: If she meant to bash Laura (and offend right-leaners), then she should have posted in the left-leaning thread, started a new topic or not post it at all (since we're not supposed to bash anyway).
If she didn't mean to bash, then a post on Laura Bush is not inappropriate in the right-leaning thread, where is where it wound up.

Plus, the discussion of public figures & their traffic mishaps was occurring in the right-leaning thread. It wouldn't have made any sense to have the Laura Bush post just pop up randomly in the left-leaning thread.

FYI: Many people who sometimes post in the left-leaning thread like Laura Bush. It is indeed possible to hold some liberal views and still have positive feelings toward her. It's not an either/or situation. Speaking only for myself, I wish she were the president instead of her husband, but that's another issue altogether.

[kwanfanatic2002]

Moxie, given her history, it was very clear what her intentions were. It has been very clear that she does not like Pres. Bush. She has bashed him repeatedly in the past.

[kwanfanatic2002]

In an article about a speech Dean made has offended even member of his own party. Dean blasted Tom Delay on Saturday as a "crminal", saying the top Republican belongs n jail".

"I think Delay ought to go back to Houston and serve his jail sentence down there.".

Incredible in the next breath, Dean compalined about this ugly, nasty dialogue that is coming from the right wing of the Repulbican party.

Dean's comments drew a sharp rebuke from Rep. Barney Frank ,"that's just wrong" I think Dean was out of line". "I don't think you in a political speech, talk about a man as a criminal or his jail sentence".

A study released last week by the web site politicalmoneyline.com however found that the TOP TEN triptakers in Congress are all DEMOCRATS., with Delay ranking 121 on the list.

Maybe the next time Dean opens his mouth he will get his facts straight and stop accusing someone of needing to be iin jail when it's own party leading the list.
Dean"Delay belongs in jail (http://newsmax.com)

[EigthAv]

Let's don't open all out FBI files up for public display.If we get to look at every government official's files,then eventually we will get the full scale brain police so that our private thoughts can be published for the whole World to see and judge. Reid has his foot squarely in his mouth.I know the feeling.:lol I wish Trent Lott wouldn't have stuck a boot in his mouth.I know the man meant no harm and I liked him as majority leader.Among other labels,we are voters.You don't like Reid? When he comes up for re-election,just say no.<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->I was shocked at all the bleeding heart sympathy for the serial killer who was executed this past week.I will never commit that sort crime,but if something ever snaps for a moment and I do,then I know every second of my life from then on would be a living hell.I'd be begging for lethal injection.Save your sympathies for the families of the victims.You wanna make a difference? Statistics prove than on average,one child per day dies at the hands of his/her own parents right here in the good olde USA.Why haven't we declared war on this madness??? They are not just property,they are living breathing human beings!

[kwanfanatic2002]

Newsweek Magazine reported on May 9th that an American Interrogators at Guantanamo Bay had flushed a copy of the Koran down the toilet wasn't the first hint that the story that has outraged Muslims worldwide may not be true.

Thursday, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Richard Myers told reporters that the only evidence of any Koran desecration unearthed so far was a log notation describing a muslim prisoner tossing pages from his holy book into the toilet."A detaine was reporrted bya guard to be ripping pages out of a Koran and and putting them into a toilet to stop it up as a protest".

The magazines misreport prompted anti-American riots in Afghanistan that have so far resulted in the death of 17 people, not to mention demands for an apology from President Bush.

When is Newsweek and other liberal media outlets going to get it and stop reported lies. Now are 17 dead people because of Newseek. They should be shut down and prosectued for this. THey obviously did not learn anything from the CBS fiasco. They issued an apology on Sunday, but stopped short of detracting the story. They have now put more Americans lives in danger due to their lies. What is the liberal media going to do next????????. That is reprehensible and disgusting and as low as you can get. Way to go Newsweeek, I hope your proud of what you have done.
Newsweek strikes again, is more like it. (http://powerlineblog.com)

Their is a poll out regarding Americans trust of the media. It is very LOW39% of the public thinks journalists reported their info correctly. Journalists had a different perception of their work. 72% said the press does a good job providing accurate coverage.
61% of Americans think news coverage is BIASED-- a question not posed to the journalists. 68% of journalists voted for Kerry.
53% of Americans are leery of news stories relying on anonymous sources. 53% believe they should not be published. Among journalists 14% agree.
Trust in media LOW (http://www.lauraingraham.com)

With the fiasco recently with CBS, you would think the other media outlets would be more careful. They will never learn.

[moxie]

68% of journalists voted for Kerry.
53% of Americans are leery of news stories relying on anonymous sources. 53% believe they should not be published. Among journalists 14% agree.

KF, where did you get these statistics? Who did the polling and which journalists were polled? The statistic I take particular issue with is that only 14% of journalists agree that stories relying on anonymous sources should not be published. That figure seems very low to me; I have worked for 4 major newspaper over the past 30 years and all had very strict policies against a story that relied only on anonymous sources. In some cases an anonymous source was allowed for corroboration of a statement made by a named source. But never just anonymous sources. Yes, there are some papers that do this in extreme cases. But I can't believe that 86% of journalists think this is OK as standard practice. I know that I certainly don't.

[Lanternlight]

usinfo.state.gov/usinfo/A...d=washfile (http://usinfo.state.gov/usinfo/Archive/2005/May/12-273892.html?chanlid=washfile)

A report from the US State Department says that the violence in Afghanistan is more related to internal political issues than to this Newsweek report.

That's the State Department headed by Condi Rice, btw.

[EigthAv]

Al Sharpton is on the warpath with the President of Mexico.It seems the Mexican Prez made a statement about illegal immigrates taking American jobs that "African Americans won't even do". I've made this statement several times........." Mexicans are doing jobs that most Americans won't do". That is a true statement.Why single out one race/ethnicity? Anyways,Sharpton is going to visit the Mexican President and has now invited Shaun Hannity to tag along............should get interesting.

[kwanfanatic2002]

Moxie, I got them from the link I linked them too. They are on Laura Ingrahams web site. She link to the direct article. That is what was reported. I posted exactly what was reported.

Mike, I agree with you. It only incited trouble to pick just one race. I don't see how Fox gets that the illegal aliens coming here illegally is not illegal. What else is it then????. I cannot see Sharpton and Sean Hannity together on a trip, trying to communicate when they are on such opposite sides of the spectrum. I would like to be a fly on the wall there. I agree it should be intertesting.


There is a new law being talked about here that would make the school principals learn Spanish so the illegal aliens kids and the kids who's parents don't speak English can talk with thew Principal. WHat happened to the kids and parents learning English???? When in America do as Americans do. We speak English. I hate that and I hope it fails. I don't see what good that would do anyway. The Principals don't teach the classes anyway.

[kwanfanatic2002]

LL, the article has nothing to do with war in AFghanistan. good try. Newsweek screwed up and they had to come back and APOLIGIZE. It has nothing to do with war. The liberal media LIED like they always do and they had to RETRACT their whole article. You can spin it however you want. THe truth is the truth is the truth. The liberal media once again lied and got caught.

Some quotes from Scott McClellan regarding the Newsweek article."The damage had real consquences", said Scott MCCLellan. "People have lost their lives, our image abroad has been damaged. There are some who are opposed to the US and what we stand for who have sought to exploit this allegation".

Saturday, Pakistan's Pres. General Musharraf and PM Aziz, both allies of Washington demanded an investigation and punishment for those behind the reported desecration of the Koran.
RETRACTION (http://drudgereport.com)
I hope everyone responsible for this horrific action is prosecuted. They should be real proud of themselves.

[md2be06]

Kwanfanatic - The Newsweek article was about an event that happened (well, didn't happen since it was all a lie) at Guantanamo Bay. This is where the terrorists captured in the Afghanistan war are being held. So, actually, the article had quite a bit to do with Afghanistan. Also, the rioting that the article caused, resulting in numerous deaths, occurred in Afghanistan. So I am afraid you are wrong.

I almost always agree with you Kwanfanatic. And, I agree with you on this story. Newsweek is so clearly biased, they were just looking for an excuse to bash the Bush administration. But I gotta say that it doesn't help our cause to try to make convincing arguments when you don't know the basic facts. It only provides the other side with an excuse to bash us and tell us that we are wrong.

[moxie]

KF, I tried the link again & it worked this time, thanks. University of Connecticut surveyed 1000 adults and 300 journalists; don't know why their sample of journalists was so small & how they defined "journalist," but many of the results were interesting. Thank you.

As far as the Newsweek report that was retracted: It wasn't a full story and/or investigation that they did. It was a short item repeating something that had been told to them by a goverment official who later changed his story. The possibility exists that the whole thing was a setup designed to make Newsweek look bad, and Newsweek fell right into the trap by not being as careful as they should have been with attribution and fact-checking. It actually doesn't matter if it was a setup; they should have been much more careful and are now paying the price.

HOWEVER: The fact that people were killed in riots is NOT the fault of Newsweek. It is the fault of the criminals/terrorists who (possibly) used this item as an excuse to cause trouble and kill each other.

Say, for example, that you see a story that says someone flushed a Bible down a toilet. Would you feel justified in picking up a gun and shooting the person who did it? Or starting a riot in which innocent bystanders were killed?
I would certainly hope not.

[kwanfanatic2002]

MD2be and Moxie,I know those facts, BUT, it is about flushing the Koran, not necassarily the war in general. I know it happened in Cuba. You can spin this all you want, Newsweek lied. They should have done more checking of their sources and not been so quick to print something just to make Bush and his admins. look bad. Newsweek is just as bad as CBS and Rathergate. I see what you are saying, I just don't agree w/u.

Moxie, how in the world do you get that Riots and dead people are not the fault of Newsweek> It is reprehsible what they did. They printed the article and the damage is done.They are ultimately responsible for it all.

As important as the BIble is to me and my family, I would never incite a riot or do anything to anyone if they chose to flush it. That is crazy. I don't have that kind of personality. Number one, I am afraid of guns and a wimp and I would be upset about it, but that is your right to do what you want with the Bible. It's not me you have to fear.(literally!!!!. wuss here). Their maker is the one they have to answer to. I would never associate myself with anyone that would do something like that or something illegal for that matter.

[moxie]

KF, please read what I said again. I AGREED with you that Newsweek was not careful enough.

But I still don't see how a short story in Newsweek makes it OK for people to riot & kill each other in Afghanistan. You said it yourself: If you heard that someone had defiled the Bible, you would not react with a violent act. So why wouldn't you apply the same standard of reasonable behavior to the people in Afghanistan? Why was it OK for them to go wild?

[kwanfanatic2002]

Moxie. I did not say it's OK. It's not. They would (hopefulluy not) done something like that if they had not been incited to do so. I will agree that the Afghans are responsible for their actions, not Newsweek. I think rioting is crazy. What does it accomplish. Nothing in my eyes. It only makes things worse.

I know you agree with me, but I hold Newsweek responsible for printing it in the first place. I just think they and all media outlets for that matter would be a lot more careful,after the fiasco with Rathergate and CBS. I would think they would not want that to happen to them.

[Lanternlight]

The article I linked to from the US State Department did say that the General was of the opinion that the rioting in Afghanistan was not primarily related to the Newsweek article. Why would the General say that if it weren't true?

[kwanfanatic2002]

The general is wrong. It is related to the article from Newsweak. Even the editor admitted it. You can't blame this on anyone else but Newsweak. They are to blame. hey screwedup and lied about it. Then they had to retract their story.

[moxie]

When did Newsweek lie? They printed a story they thought to be true, based on a statement a reporter got from a U.S. official, then quickly retracted it when the official changed his story & Newsweek couldn't find other collaboration of what the official said.

Yes, they should have gotten the second collaboration before printing the item (which was really just a brief item and not worth all the trouble it's causing). But there is no evidence that Newsweek deliberately published a false item and then lied to cover it up.

Writers are human and sometimes just make mistakes. It is not always an evil plot.

[kwanfanatic2002]

Come on Moxie, your're smarter than that. Newsweak LIED big time. I am so sick of how you in liberal press try to lie and spin things. The bias is so blatant and ridiculous. give me a break. They knew full well what they were doing. Don't even try to tell me that was not INTENTIONAL. That is not even funny. This whole mess is a strike at Bush. They are trying to take him down.
Even their retraction was not sincere. They still think they did nothing wrong.

[kwanfanatic2002]

There is an article about Kennedy with him saying that all judicial candidates deserve an up or down vote. he also tried to abolish the filibuster in 1995. What a hypocrite. This is a statement from the RNC Committee.


Kennedys hypocritical and obstructionist comments this morning and more evidence Dems would rather launch partisan political attacks than confront the issues facing our nation:, the RNC statement said.

RNC noted that in 1996, Kennedy supported abolishing the filibuster. In 95, Dems Bingaman,BOXER, Feingold, Harkin,KENNEDY, KERRY, Lautenberg, Lieberman and Sarbane all voted to end the filibusters. Republicans also chastisted Kennedy for flip flopping on previous statements he made indicating that filibusters should not be used to block judicial votes.

In 98, Kennedy said "We owe it to Americans across the country to give these nominees a vote.If our Republican colleagues don't like them, then vote against them,but GIVE THEM A VOTE.

They are all hypocrites.
www.newsmax.com Kennedy sought to abolish FILIBUSTERS.

[moxie]

Come on Moxie, your're smarter than that. Newsweak LIED big time. I am so sick of how you in liberal press try to lie and spin things. The bias is so blatant and ridiculous. give me a break. They knew full well what they were doing. Don't even try to tell me that was not INTENTIONAL. That is not even funny. This whole mess is a strike at Bush. They are trying to take him down.

KF, are you even aware that the primary Newsweek reporter involved in this, Michael Isikoff, is the same Newsweek reporter who first uncovered and reported the affair between Monica and Bill Clinton? It was Isikoff's story that helped set in motion the steps that led to the impeachment vote against Clinton.

Did Isikoff lie on that one, too? At the time, did you think he was just out to "get" Clinton? Or did you happen to like that particular Newsweek story? If that's the case, is it accurate to say that you choose to believe Newsweek only when it reports stories that are unfavorable to a Democrat?

And what was Newsweek's possible spin on this? They said they made a mistake, they retracted the story (which is a very serious step for a publisher) and they apologized. What else is there to the story?

Plus, how would it have made Bush look bad anyway?
After all, there have been many instances of U.S. soldiers being charged and convicted for various cases of prisoner abuse during the past couple years. The blame for these hasn't even reached mid-level military officials, let alone Bush or his administration. All the blame is being put on the poor, low-level soldiers. Why would anyone at Newsweek think they could blame Bush for this Koran incident, when Bush has never been blamed for any other incidents like this? It just doesn't make any sense.

The bottom line: If Newsweek's motive really was to make Bush look bad, they would at least try to do it in a substantial cover story. Not in a brief item that many readers probably didn't even notice when it was first published.

[EigthAv]

I am trying to put myself in News Weak's shoes.If I had a friend who's wife was cheating in bad ways and I had ironclad evidence,but knew showing him the evidence might cause her death or serious injury,would I rat? No. People are dead and their lives had meaning.Had there been magazines like this in the 1860s,the South might've won.

[kwanfanatic2002]

Moxie, I have always taken you for an intelligent lady(?) man(?), PERSON!!!. I cannot believe you don't see the seriousness here of this. Yes, I know that the reporter is the one that broke the Lewinski story (along w/ Matt Drudge).
I could care less about that and Clinton. That is past history. Moxie, people are DEAD. Newsweak DID GO AFTER BUSH. I think it was BLATANT.I don't care how serious it is for a publisher to retract a story. They printed something without cobbororating the sources. They are just as bad as CBS and Rathergate.I don't expect you to agree w/me. You dislike Bush. If this was a Republican, this would all be a HUGE STORY. Admit it. I don't know why it was not a huge front cover story, but it is just about all people are talking about. It is a huge story now. Newsweak has 17 dead peoples death on their hands. They need to do more to correct the damage they have done. They have put soldiers lives in danger in Irag and Afghanistan, along with Americans potenitally. They cannot get away with rushing to print something w/o first corroborating their sources. WHy won't they tell everyone who their sources are????? Because the source is probably not credible. They certainly have lost all their credibility now. People are waking up to the blatant media bias and that is why the ratings for the "old media" are fading.
The people blaming Bush for Abu Ghraib is really getting old Moxie. he has nothing to do with it, ther soldiers are responsible for their actions. Bush had NOTHING to do with it. get over it!!!!.

[moxie]

I don't expect you to agree w/me. You dislike Bush. If this was a Republican, this would all be a HUGE STORY. Admit it. I don't know why it was not a huge front cover story, but it is just about all people are talking about.

KF:
1. In previous posts, I already AGREED with you that Newsweek should have been more careful with their sourcing.

2. If who was a Republican? Isikoff? The other writer? All the senior people at Newsweek? If that's who you're talking about, how do you know for a fact that they are not Republicans? After all, Newsweek has printed many stories that were not favorable to Clinton (including the Monica expose). And, over the years, Newsweek has printed many stories that have been unfavorable to other Democrats, including Kerry, Dean and Kennedy. Newsweek does write more these days about the Bush administration, but that's because Bush is in power now. As soon as Bush is out of office, the magazine will focus on the next administration, whether it's Republican or Democrat.

3. I am confused about your "cover story" statements. Were you wishing that the original small story (which you viewed as being anti-Bush) had been a big cover story instead? Otherwise, I don't know what you are saying, because this issue now has been a front-page story everywhere. I don't know how it could be covered more extensively than it has been.

[kwanfanatic2002]

Moxie, I don't care how it was covered. I just think (as do many many other people) that this was a blatant way to get Bush. YOu will never convince me it wasn't. I don't read the liberal media garbage anymore so I don't know what they have covered, not do I care. The facts are clear, they lied and rushed to print an article without corroborating their facts. They will not even give their "sources name". WHy are they hiding his or her name????.

I don't get how you think this is no big deal and why Newsweek is not responsible for it's actions. Why do you think it's the end of the story. I don't care how they print the story, I don't care how many favorable or unfavorable stories they have reported on whomever is in office. They are biased and that has been proven many times. I am willing to bet the majority of articles favoring a Dem. will outnumber the Rep's.
You are in the media and are sticking up the for them. Ask most people and I am willing to bet you will hear that an overwhelming majority of people will agree w/me that Newsweak is going after Bush and they highly favor a Democratic.

[mr pru]

Are you married to Rush?

[kwanfanatic2002]

I don't need Rush to tell me how to think. I would not marry that man for any amount of money.

This weekend Abdul Fatah Fayeh Senior Judicial figure in Afghanistan red a statement from 300 Muslim Clerics that Pres. Bush should hand the culprits over to an Islamic country "or else" we will launch a JIHAD AGAINST AMERICA. Way to go Newsweak. You don't even have a clue as to how much damage you have done.

"The shakily sourced May 9th Newsweaks report that interrogators had desecrated a Koran at GB is likely to do more damage to the US than AG prisons scandals. What is also deeply disturbing is that the journalists who put the report out seem somewhat clueless about this reality".

Newsweaks Deadly Mistakes (http://lauraingraham.com)

That describes a democrat and the media very well.
CBS has cancelled 60 Minutes11. good riddance. good bye Dan Rather. good riddance.

[mr pru]

Red is a color. Read is something you do with a statement.

[kwanfanatic2002]

The media was at the WH a day or 2 ago listening to Scott MCCellan and trying to blame Newsweaks troubles on Bush and blamin MCCellan for trying to tell Newsweak how to edit their magazine. They were adamant about him not trying to run Newweek. In April, Barbara Boxer did exactly that to a group of newspaper editors. she was telling them how to cover the judicial filibusters story. Talk about hypocrites.

i guess only the left is able to do that. Where does she get off trying to tell newspapers how to report the news ( not that they dont need the help).

Scott MCCellan was not trying to tell Newsweak how to edit their magazine, he was jsut trying to get them to repair the damage they caused. BB's motives were not pure. How could anyone take them seriously? That is why their ratings are in the cellar and Fox and the bloggers are raising. blatant hypocrisy.

www. rushlimbaugh.com, Hey, Elizabeth Bumiller and Terry Moran, how to cover the filibuster story.

[ladybugs]

Hi! First I want to say how very thrilled I am and happy to have a wonderful forum to chat in. I am a Republican and it is so refreshing to hear those of you who share my thoughts and beliefs. I really don't understand the democratic party or liberals and why they always seem to be stuck in the "60's mentality". They always want to be right about things and can never admit what we fellow Republicans view as courageous and right.

I am a fan of Sean Hannity, Laura Ingraham and I also like Dick Morris (didn't he come over from the left?). I like Ron Silver also. Did you catch his great speech at the Republican National Convention? That intro just blew away the Democratic Convention. It was clever. I also listen to Bill O' Reilly, Rush Limbaugh (he is very smart, don't take him for granted) and Mark Levine. Laura, though, has a very hilarious show. I wish her the best as I know she is going through breast cancer recovery and God speed! I love you, Laura! Mark Levine is pretty funny too.

I know Ann Coulter was suppose to be on Jay Leno. I taped the show too, but never got a chance to see it and the show, by now,is probably erased. What was the discussion about? Didn't know Leno was a liberal. He's in Hollywood so I guess it should not come as a surprise. What is with the Bush bashing? And why do the liberals put Michael Moore up on a pedestal? He is the sloppiest person I have ever seen. Well, no, there have probably been worse.

But really, I am just so happy to speak with other Republicans and thank you to all for speaking your mind. The Dems have so much anger in them over Republicans. I think they just want a Democratic president because they want the power of it and that is all they care about. Can't they see that if you have to rely on others to help you, you kind of give yourself over to them and that is the communists way of doing things? Can't they understand that?

Really, if they keep twisting the truth and not letting us speak our mind, they are really hypocritical. Aren't they suppose to be the party of always complaining about freedom of speech? Doesn't it cross both ways?

Just don't get where they're coming from.

P. S. I absolutely love Michelle Kwan. Does anyone know her political views? Please tell me she is a Republican. But no matter, I still want her to win her much deserved gold medal in the 2006 Winter Olympics.:RB :)

[kwanfanatic2002]

Ladybugs, My husband wants to know where you have been for the past 4 1/2 years???. We both agree with you 1000000%. You are dead on. good post. I replied to your other post as well. I have to reply again.
First of all, I LOVE Laura Ingraham. We listen to Bill Bennett ( if we are awake then. he comes on at 5am here).Then Laura. I feel soooo bad for her. I hope and pray that she is OK. SHe knows her stuff. It also helps that she is an attorney as well.I like her passion. I care very much about the judicial filibuster issue now. I am glad to see her so vocal about it as well.
My heart goes out to her. How awful that she ended her engagement during her bout with cancer. She asked either Matt or Lee recently to blow the black cloud off of her. I felt like crawling thru the stereo and giving her a huge hug. I wish her the best.I pray for her as well.
I listen to Rush, Sean, and Tony Snow too. We usually have Tony on in the background with the Tv on as well. I'm glad he is Ok now. We need him and Laura.
You are sooo right about Rush. THe left hates him and they should listen to him. He knows what he is talking about.
My husband and I are going to see Sean when he comes here June 1. We are also talking about going to the Freedom Concert. Leann Rimes will be there performing.

I missed Ann Coulter on the Tonite Show. I meant to watch it, but my daughter needed me and I forgot to watch it. Matt LeBlanc was on first and I cannot stand him. Ann Coulter is a class act, along with Laura and Michelle Malkin. It is great to have such strong Republican women in the public eye giving their informed insight. I like them all.

Recently, Nancy Pelosi made a comment that the left does not have to have a plan, they just have to defeat the Republicans. That pretty much sums it up. They do not have a plan. Kerry did not have a plan either in the last election. I think the left wants to turn this country into a Socialist or Communist nation. God help us. They are truly hypocrites.hands down. They don't want us to speak our minds, but they are free to speak theirs, and lie and bash Bush. They call it facts!!!!. WRONG. It is LIES. Our freedom to continue to speak our minds without fear of retribution is something the troops are over in Iraq and Afghanistan fighting for. They need to be grateful people are willing to put their lives on the line so they be over here tearing them down, along with the admins. They are free call the troops idiots and losers and putting their down the Commander In Chief that sent them there. They are also fighting for their right to bash Republicans and Bush and his admins. By the way, I think this is the best admins. that has held office in a very long time.
By the way, I love Laura's "but monkeys" and espicially the "lie of the day".

There was a discussion in the last year or so about Michelle and her political views. Heather and the mods have made her personal life off limits.Unless it is something that she has commented on,(I think that is how it was stated).

I forgot to say, welcome!!!! I for one are very glad to have you here. It is nice to be able to share our opinions here.
:) :) :) :)
:angel





:)

[moxie]

"I think the left wants to turn this country into a Socialist or Communist nation."

No, we would just like a democracy, as established in our Constitution, in which the views of 49% of the people are not squashed and trashed by the 51% whose candidate happened to win the previous election.
That's all.

As far as everyone being so afraid of socialism, or at least a socialized form of health insurance: Let's revisit this issue in say, about 10 years, when only the most weathy will be able to afford health care and even hard-working, middle-class families won't be able to afford it.
This is where we're headed.

[moxie]

"Our freedom to continue to speak our minds without fear of retribution is something the troops are over in Iraq and Afghanistan fighting for."

Yes, and that includes the freedom of EVERONE (not just Bush supporters) to speak without being trashed and/or accused of being unpatriotic or a Communist or whatever. Many of the disputes on this board have come about because of the view of some that any poster who is critical at all of any of Bush's policies should either shut up or "go to the left-leaning thread."

I, for one, like to read as many opposing views as I can. Sometimes I even learn something.

[kwanfanatic2002]

Moxie, I lived in Canada w/ Socialists medicine. Belive you, you don't want it.I lost an uncle last week because there was no dr. in the ER. I almost lost an aunt. wqould you like to have to wait for amonth or more for tests you need. Would you like to not be able to see a dr when you need one. Not me. I want to live. I highly DOUBT anyone in their right mind would want SOc.medicine.(but wait, the libs do.) iy that is what you want, go to Canada.

You are not being squaed and trashed. That is something the libs here on this board is quite good at doing to those who do not agree w/ them.. That is soooooo ridicluous. Typical of the left. (I dont care how u vote). You bash and call if facts. You cannot admit that is what you are doing. It is ok for you all to say something bad the Right and disagree, but not for the right to say somethign and disagreee. You can bash anyone and think it's ok for you to get away with it.No one here is squashing and trashing anyone. That is a ridiculous, hateful reamrk. but I have to come to expect nothing else form you all.

You all shoudl go to the L L side. Why even have two sides then. Would you like it if we came over there and bashed the left big time. WHy have 2 sides. If you could come ove here and have a respectful discussion that would be fine. That is not happening. You want to bash badly anyone. That is all the left knows to do.I am not the only on who feels that way. We don't want to read your hatred and angry comments. Yes, take it over there. Spew it on the left side. It is not possible w/ a lib to have a discussion. God forbid you disagree.

[mr pru]

I will continue to read your posts when I need a good, deep down belly laugh. You are so blind and ignorant (if you know the actual definition of that word) to facts that it is absolutely a riot.

[kwanfanatic2002]

NO, MR PRU, YOU are wrong and blind and deaf. Typical of the left. The facts speak for themselves. like it or not.I could not care any less what you think or read or not read. I want the REAL facts, not a libs ideas of the facts. I just consider the source w/u and other libs.

[kwanfanatic2002]

There is a new ad out from teh moveon.org trash accusing Rep. Leader Frist trying to blow up the capital. Just when I think they cannot sink any lower, they do. They are just pure EVIL AND disgusting and pathetic. They are FILLED with anger and hatred. I pity them.
moveon.org, Ad shows Republican Leader Frist trying to blow up Capital. (http://www.drudgereport.com)

[mr pru]

Well let's see:
Over 1,500 American soldiers dead due to Georgie's incorrect assessment of Weapons of Mass Destruction-FACT
Hundreds of of thousands of jobs lost since Jan. 2001-FACT
Iraq is a terrorist haven where is wasn't before-FACT
Medicare will be broke by the end of his current term-FACT
His father used his influence so Georgie could leapfrog over hundreds of already qualified people to get into a unit where he could dodge the draft-FACT
He didn't fulfill those obligations-disappearing before a medical exam and not being seen again-FACT
Admitted in recently released tapes that he was a dope smoker-Why do you think they call it dope?-FACT
Admitted he was forced to quit drinking because he couldn't control his boozing-FACT
Turned a record surplus into a debt greater than the supposed great Ronny Reagan amassed. Our grandchildren will be paying on this current debt-FACT
I have to cook my father's supper now, but I will return with more FACTS that cannot be disputed.
Sorry-I know the truth hurts.

[mr pru]

OVER 1,500 AMERICAN SOLDIERS DEAD

[phisigsig]

Thanks Mr. Pru- I was just getting ready to give the same FACTS myself but you beat me to it!

[mr pru]

There are plenty more. Feel free to contribute your share.
I'm doing a little research before I get back to the FACTS.

[kwanfanatic2002]

Those are your facts. The libs know aLLLL ABOUT HOW THE TRUTH HURTS. they losT. you cannot handle the truth so you are over here causing trouble. You all are nothing more than a bunch of angry lying losers. Take your facts (so called "facts") and go away. No one wants you over here. If you were not so angry and defenseless you woud not be here. What is your purpose for causing trouble????? Are you trying to get this political chat taken away. I could go on and on an on about the libs and their faults but you are not worth it. I am not stooping to your lowly level. The left have NO CLASS. Alll you know how to do is cause trouble and fights.

Why don;t you come in here with a plan, a plan to fix the world. But wait, that's the lefts plan, you DON'T HAVE TO HAVE A PLAN, just attack the Right and LIE LIE LIE and try to destroy the other party. You are soo sickening. GROW UP

[mr pru]

What you just typed makes no sense at all. Did you pay attention in English class? You write like Georgie attempts to govern-poorly.
The truth is you couldn't dispute the FACTS so you lashed out in a very immature and unflattering way. You are only making a fool of yourself to many members of this fine Forum.
I understand you have no answer for the truth.
I feel your pain.
However, the truth stands.
The FACTS still speak for themselves-in volumes.

[kwanfanatic2002]

I took honors English, thank you. I am not going to stoop to your level. I am not going to defend LIES.

YOU AND LIBERAL CRONIES ARE THE ONES LOOKING BAD. I couldnot care less what you or they think. I am not going to defend slies lieslies, filth and trash.That is pretty much all that is coming out of your mouth these days.
IT IS SICK. i WILL GIVE YOU FACTS. LIBS LIE

[mr pru]

OVER 1,500 AMERICAN SOLDIERS ARE DEAD!!!!!
Thousands and thousands are maimed and disfigured for LIFE!!
Is that a lie?
"Stoop" to my level and answer that truthfully.
You can't and WON'T give an honest answer.
You're not capable of it.

Feel free to rant on. I must go care for my father for the rest of the evening.
I'll catch up with you later.
Have a nice evening.
Sleep tight.

[kwanfanatic2002]

THOSE 15000 OR MORE, SOLDIERS VOLUNTEERED TO GO TO WAR. I have heard stories from soldiers who have served and they aare happy abut their service and some of them that were hurt, want to go BACK, UNLIKE KERRY, who got a boo-boo and came home. Some of the soldiers are going back hurt. They all volunteered to go. They were not forced. This is WAR and it is not pretty. PEOPLE DIE.

The American Conservative Union filed an ethics complaint against Harry Reid, in regards to the May 12th reference to the judicial nominee Henry Saad's confidential FBI file on the floor of the US Senate.

According to Senate rules, Reid was PROHIBITED from even accessing the FBI file, let alone publicly discussing the info held it. The complaint also cites rcent improper remarks referencing confidential materials by Senators Leahy and Levin.

"Henry Reid, Patrick Leahy and Carl Levin's references tojudicial nominees confidential FBI files are "gross violations of Senate rules and ethics", said ACU Chairman D.Keene. "On behalf of the Conservative Union, i urge Senator Voinovich and the Ethics Committee to quickly and gully investigate this egregious behavior and end this pattern of systematic abuse.".

According to Senate Rule 29, which governs Senate confidentiality matters, "any Senator, officer, or employee who shall disclose the secret or confidential business or proceedings of the Senate.... shall be liable to suffer expulsion from the body."

"Confidential FBI files are just that---- strictly confidential, continued Keene."Henry Saad himself isn;t allowed his file to defend himself. The dems BLATANT VIOLATIONS of the Senate ethics are a dangerous and desperate attempt to character assassination and most not be tolerated.".
ACU files Ethics Complaint against Harry Reid, Advocacy group says Minority Leader Guilty of GROSS VIOLATIONS:, LEAHY and LEVIN also named (http://rushlimbaugh.com)

We give honest answers, you just cannot handle it.


But, that is all they know how to do. They cannot come up with anything on their own, so this is their behavior. The ACU needs to keep going w/ the ethics complaints against the left. Don't stop there.

[moxie]

"Some of the soldiers are going back hurt. They all volunteered to go. They were not forced. This is WAR and it is not pretty."

So if this war is still going on 7-10 years from now (in Iraq, Iran or wherever), would you encorage your daughter to sign up and go fight?

[kwanfanatic2002]

As a mother, no of course not. I cannot however tell her how to live her life when she is an adult. She has pretty much decided what she wants to do with her life when she grows up and the military is not part of her plan- thank GOD. I hope she does not change her mind. I will support anything she decides she wants to do. i will be proud of her whatever she does. I don't want to see her go off to war, no parent does, but I will support her and be proud of her.

[EigthAv]

Right off hand,I couldn't name you any parents who I've ever known or know now,me included,who would encourage a military career to his/her son or daughter.You see,it's like this.In the USA,when you reach your 18th birthday,you can choose the military and not even your own parents can stop you if this is what you really want. My mum was so Vietnam scared.She became nervous that I was in high school Air Force ROTC.Like as if merely the uniform might get me beat up or something.What sucked the most about those days was the bloody draft.Go figure.We had natural born killers roaming our streets at night whilst scared rabbits were in the jungles of Vietnam.Then Nixon declared "peace with honour" and the wholesale slaughter and worse was on in Vietnam and Cambodia.I didn't want this Iraq thing.I say clean up our own backyards first.Now that we are waste deep in it,we need to finish what we started and not pull a "peace with honour".

[kwanfanatic2002]

Thanks Eightave, that was a great post. I would never encourage Jessica to go to war. Mike, I think I have shared the health problems I am having with her now, it would probably preclude her from being eligible for singing up for the war. Thank God. If they will accept her I will support her 100% but I will never be happy about it. Her teacher from last year has a son in Iraq now. We pray for him every night.
(by the way Mike, she is doing very well now. SHe is home and back in school again. Tomorrow is field day for her and she is so excited. She missed 2 days for allergy problems but that is a hiccup compared to the other things she has dealt with).

I bet your mother was nervous about you going to Vietnam. I would be nervous too. Are you from the north by any chance. I'm just asking because you wrote "mum' and "honour" like i did in Canada.I called my mother "mum', not mom, like they do here. I'm not trying to be nosey, just curious.

[mr pru]

True-people die in wars. People are dying in this war because Georgie porgie decided without verification that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction.
People are dying because they were sent to war without enough body armor. People are dying because they are driving around in unarmored Humvees-even though the manufacturer
informed the administration they could increase production to protect the troops sooner. Bush declined that offer.
His so called tax cuts benefited the top ten percent wage earners in this country-FACT.
His cowboy mentality has alienated long time allies all over the world-FACT.
The Bush family has been in bed with top of the line oil producers in Saudi Arabia for years and years-FACT.
Cheney's company-Haliburton-has been awarded BILLIONS of dollars worth of no bid contracts inside of Iraq. Coincidence ?-Of course not! That is also a FACT.
I notice that I wasn't called a liar this time around. That's because deep down you know I'm right about these things. You will never be able to admit it to anyone here because it would confirm your ignorance of the FACTS.
As of yesterday-1,627 American soldiers are DEAD-FACT.
Think-if you're capable of it-of the mothers,fathers and other family members and friends that have had their lives altered in the WORST possible way because of Georgie porgie. I doubt you can can give proper credence to that statement because again, it would be admitting Georgie was DEAD WRONG.
I'm sure all family members of the soldiers in Iraq are so pleased the major combat operations are over. How many more would DIE if they weren't?
Mission Accomplished! (Does that sound familiar?)

[kwanfanatic2002]

PRU, You are not longer even worth reading, much less responding to. you are pathetic and crazy

[mr pru]

"...not longer even worth reading..." Huh?..What?..Huh?!?.. Shouldn't the "Y" in your last sentence be a capital letter? Is that what you learned in honors English?
Facts are facts-you'd be better off to learn to live with it.

[kwanfanatic2002]

There is nothing wrong w/ my English. I have no problem with the facts. i DO HAVE A PROBLEM W/; YOUR BASHING AND FOOOLISHNESS AND SO VERSION OF THE "FACTS".
GROWP UP AND GET A LIFE

[mr pru]

If there is nothing wrong with your English, then why-

Is the "I" not a capital letter when it begins a sentence?
I believe foolishness contains only two o's-not three.
"...and so version..." again-Huh? What?! Huh?!?
"GROWP"-???? Isn't that what dirty old men do to young ladies?

These facts are not my facts.
They are true statements about George Bush.
They have nothing to do with me. I am just the messenger.
Why are you mad at me because of the way Georgie is?

[kwanfanatic2002]

I could not care less about if i misspelled something. Your only argument is how someone spells something.
Your so- called facts are so DEAD WRONG. Just libs that are sore losers. PRESIDENT BUSH, is doing a fantastic job, 59 million voters are not wrong. This country is much better off with President Bush than Kerry. We would be a Socialist or Communist Nation by now. Thank God the RIGHT, got iT RIGHT. This argument is getting vewry very old and tired. move on.

[mr pru]

I never mentioned John Kerry-you did.
Kerry may or may not have been a good president. He could try real, real hard and not be as bad as Georgie B.
I'm not arguing anything.
One doesn't need to argue when the truth is on their side.
If you somehow truly believe I'm wrong, you have not presented one iota of information to prove me wrong.
It's absurd to believe any individual could turn us into a Communist nation in five and one half years.
I got my previously mentioned deep down belly laugh going on that ridiculous statement.
You've swallowed the propaganda that this administration has dished out in huge gulps.
Since you can't disprove any of the FACTS, you continue to lash out like a very small child when they don't get their way.
The FACT that spelling doesn't matter to you says a lot about your make up and personality, whether you realize it or not. Well come to think of it-you wouldn't admit that either.
"...vewry..." Huh?
Based on everyone of your posts that have appeared-you obviously learned a foreign language in "honors English".
If there is any doubt-go back and read each and everyone of them and you'll realize that this too, is a FACT that cannot be disputed.

[moxie]

"I took honors English, thank you."

KF, since most colleges offer courses in rhetoric, writing skills and literature, but not "English" per se, I'm wondering just where it was you studied "honors English."

Perhaps this course was English as a Second Language?
And, if so, did you actually pass?

I used to think that your frequent errors in spelling, grammar and syntax were largely a result of a lack of training in typing (or, typing very quickly without proofreading), but that was up until the point I saw the word especially spelled something like "espicaly" for about the hundreth time. I really do think, for the sake of career advancement and your future ability to help your daughter with her homework, that you might consider a refresher course in basic writing and spelling skills. It can only help, trust me.

[Sparks]

May I also suggest that KF request her custom title to be changed? "I'm a right-leaner two" doesn't make any sense and really hurts the use of proper English.

To, too, two.
Then, than, that.
So, sew, sow.
Which witch is which?
:angel

[kwanfanatic2002]

LOOK FOOLS, GROW UP, ACT LIKE ADULTS. YOU SOUND LIKE FOOLS AND THIS IS A SITE FOR US GROWN UPS. IT IS OBVIOUS YOU CANNOT ACT LIKE ONE.

THERE IS NO WAY IN ---- I AM CHANGING ANYTHING. WHO IN THE H--- DO YOU THINK YOU ARE. CHANGE YOURS. UNBELIEVABLE. BUT WHY AM I SURPRISED , THAT IS ALL LIBS KNOW THESE DAYS. YOU ARE ALL SORE LOSERS. GROW UP AND ACT LIKE ADULTS.

[mr pru]

You might want to check your keyboard as I believe the Caps Lock button is stuck.
Once again you lash out in a very, very immature manner.
Once again you bring no facts to the table or any evidence to rebuke anything mentioned about Georgie's sorry attempt at governing.
I don't understand why you refer to me as a LIB. I assume you mean liberal. I've already mentioned my political affiliation.
All you can do is repeat the propaganda that has been shoved down your throat from the administration shills that you say you and your hubby listen to non stop 24/7.
How many other commentators and journalists have the Bush administration paid under the table to promote their agenda?
You probably believe that isn't a FACT either.
It's been a long evening. I had a wonderful steak dinner with an absolutely beautiful woman-followed by a nice long walk and a short trip for some ice cream.
I'll catch up in the morning.
Sleep tight-don't let the LIBS bite.

[kwanfanatic2002]

I am going to let you little children play your games. I am through with all of you. You don't know what you are talking about.

[kwanfanatic2002]

There are rumblings that the DNC Chairman Dean will not last a year. Much of the concern was laid out in the Bob Novak column earlier this week. Poor fund raising and crazy talk from Dean, not the least of which was Dean's recent endorsement of Socialist Bernie Sanders in his bid to replace Jim Jeffords and policy talk on SS that was in the Dem. playbook.

A knowledgeable Dem. operative who has worked on both Capitol Hill and the DNC says "We are not far from dumping Dean, becoming action". According to this source, Carville, as well as other senior Dems have been talking about how to blunt Dean and get a more positive message and messenger out into the public eye". The problem is that Dean hasn't really been in the public eye", says the Dean operative-- at least not nationally. His appearance on Meet the Press this coming Sunday will really help clarify for people just how desperate we need to be".

Push to dump fund raising failure Dean (http://rushlimbaugh.com)

I would say they need to act right now. Like today.

Here is an example of just disgusting the left is acting. They have come out w/ t shirts saying Bush needs to be shot.
How SICK. They cannot sink any lower. They are at the bottom of the barrell. I would not support anyone in that party. i would be so ashamed to be a democrat today. That is beyond SICK and disgusting. Talk about a party with NO CLASS. They have no shame at all. Whomever is doing this should le prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
dems calling for Bush to be killed. (http://rushlimbaugh.com)

[mr pru]

When people can't handle the truth, they choose to ignore it. This obviously is your choice. Since the FACTS have been presented and you were unable to disprove them you lash out at those who presented the information.
I guess it may be hard to admit that Georgie's inept ability is really doing this country serious harm.
It is sad that you can't see the truth.
I will keep you updated on future FACTS.
Thank you for such a nice discussion.

Are you planning to go to Nationals or Skate America? How about the Fall Campbells? It would be wonderful to meet up with you and put a face behind the ignorance.

[moxie]

KF, I couldn't believe any Democrat of any political standing would actually advocate a "kill Bush" T-shirt, so I used Google search to track down Rush's comment, since your link went to his home page & not the story itself.

I finally found it in an interview Rush had with Santorum: "...those real lunatics at MoveOn.org. I mean, they've got T-shirts, 'Bush equals Hitler.' They've got T-shirts, 'Bush should be shot! Shoot Bush!' "

Please note that moveon.org is not an organization of the Democratic Party. In fact, many of its members are independents who do not even support the Democratic Party because they feel there is not a significant difference between Democrats and Republicans on many major issues. They feel the Democratic Party is not "liberal" or "progressive" enough to effect real social change.

To check this out further, I went to the moveon.org web site and couldn't find any T-shirts listed, including this one. (Rush's story had a picture of it; it is indeed awful.)

So I have no idea who is selling this T-shirt & where it is actually available. But here's a challenge: If you can document any connection between this T-shirt and the Democratic Party, I will donate $100 to your favorite nonpolitical charity.

[moxie]

"THERE IS NO WAY IN ---- I AM CHANGING ANYTHING. WHO IN THE H--- DO YOU THINK YOU ARE. CHANGE YOURS."

KF, people were just trying to be helpful. Your logo says: "Jessica's proud mother and a right leaner two" when it actually should say "Jessica's proud mother and a right-leaner, too."

The word "two" is a number.
The word that's equivalent to "also" is "too."

To be even more correct, hyphenate right-leaner and add the comma before the modifying "too."

[mr pru]

Moxie-Your money is safe. Keep your wallet closed.
The statement was made that KF didn't need Rush to tell her how to think, but her link went to his home page? Hmmm...Why does that not surprise me.
The tape recorder must be rolling on these shows that have permeated her brain. The statements that are posted are obviously someone else's words.
She has shown her own lack of a vocabulary.
It's also obvious these words are straight off of the administration's propaganda machine.
This too, will never be admitted

[moxie]

I just found the source of it: a commercial web site called cafepress.com that lets people create and sell their own T-shirts, key chains, etc. The "kill Bush"
T-shirt has now been pulled from the site.

[moxie]

This too, will never be admitted

perhaps you meant to say:

This two, will never be admitted :rollin

[mr pru]

PERFECT!!

[mr pru]

According to a confidential memo written by British MI-6 ( which is Britian's intelligence service), director Richard Dearlove following a meeting with Bush administration officials in July 2002, Bush had already decided on war.
The Americans, Dearlove reported, intended to invade Iraq and the case for war would be "justified by the conjunction of terrorism and weapons of mass destruction." Dearlove then added, "The intelligence and facts are being fixed around the policy."
No one in the British government, including Tony Blair, has disputed the authenticity of this document.
The memo continued with, "At this point Foreign Secretary Jack Straw confirms Bush has decided on war, but notes that stitching together justification would be a challenge, since 'the case was thin.' Straw noted that Saddam was not threatening his neighbors and his WMD capability was less than that of Libya, North Korea or Iran."
So here is the situation: There is now documentation that Georgie Porgie had decided to go to war long before he told the United States Congress or the public. Administration officials deliberately deceived the American people in making the case for war, but because they have already conceded (since they have no choice) that the intelligence on WMDs was wrong, the news media doesn't feel the need to report that the error was calculated and not accidental.
The American people deserve to know they were lied to, because we not only face ongoing human and financial costs in Iraq, but the potential for similar sacrifices in Iran, North Korea, if not elsewhere.
Talk about a smoking gun??!!
This is further PROOF of Bush's backhandedness and lies.

Over 1,600 American soldiers are DEAD because of this!

[kwanfanatic2002]

Pru, I could go back and find many many times when the dems, Kerry, Kennedy, Clinton, Gore, etc etc etc. have said there were WMD's, but I am not going to waste my time. I could care less what you think. ALl you trying to do is cause trouble and incite people. Which is against the rules here. it is so typical of DEMS.
From now on, cool it and go away. stop trying to cause trouble. You are not going to change anyones mind. It is clearyour only intention is to incite trouble.

Moxie,oh PUHLEEEAAZE, that is not your intention or anyones elses for me to change my sig. i am not changing anything. I meant it the way it is and i am not changing it.

Moveon.org IS A LIBERAL ORG. How in the world could you say that. That is ridiculous. I know it's hard to be a part of a party that would do something soooooo rephrensible and repugnant, but they did it. I would be ashamed to be affiliated w/ a party like that. You can have it.

[mr pru]

Well now, once again, no FACTS I presented were disputed.
Another round of truth you had to swallow.
You claim not to want to waste your time looking up something. Me thinks that's because you know you can't find it from one of the folks you mentioned, much less all of them.
Moveon.org my be a liberal organization-but it has no affiliation with the Democratic Party. It is made up of people who oppose Georgie Porgie. A comparison you may be able to understand: It's like the supporters of Georgie, who weren't affiliated with the Republican Party, who formed a group to try to discredit Mr. Kerry's service in Vietnam during the election.
Now maybe that is simple enough for you to understand-but I wouldn't bet on it.
It is obvious to all that indeed you care and deeply what I think because you always come back with some inane, emotion filled ranting.
Never, are FACTS presented like I have done repeatedly, entirely for your sake.
It is not our fault that you have yet to grasp the ability to write the English language the way it was intended to be.
This does not bode well for any offspring you may conceive.
To continually lash out at people for your own miscues and failures shows a deep personality flaw.
By not correcting your mistakes, you continue to show the members of this fine Forum your ignorance of the English language, not to mention the appearance of lack of education.
I'm not attempting to change anyone's mind (you left out the apostrophe when you typed -anyones-). This is the United States of America-everyone is free to believe what they choose. No one (including you) has the right to tell others how their political views should be.
Stating FACTS is anything but inciting trouble. You're the one with all the pent up anger leaking from your pores, not I.
If the FACTS upset you so much-that all you can do is spew venom at all who disagree with your political views-then you have far greater problems to deal with.
You may want to consider anger management classes.
On your next response, please do try not to sound so hateful. Please state FACTS and leave emotions out of the equation, if possible.
I realize that is far too much to ask from a person with your basic personality flaws-however, please make it a point to try.

[kwanfanatic2002]

i am not playing your games. I am playing into your garbage. I could not care less what you say. Nothing you say matters to me. Bush is doing a great job and I support him 1100%. People die in war, that is a given.
Anything you have to say is crap. I could care less. I dont even read what you post.
This is the right leaners side. Again, WHY are you soooo interested in bashing Bush and everyone else. What kind of SICK perverted pleasure do you all get from it.
I am more interested in discussing serious issues. You can continue to bash people and break the rules here. i am MOVING ON. YOU ARE NOT WORHT IT. I DON'T CARE AND I AM SURE NO ONE ELSE DOES EITHER. THIS IS SO CHILDISH. I know it's ahrd to hear about your "party and how disgustingly pathetic they are. the facts are right there for you.

[mr pru]

I see you didn't take my advice. More hatred and venom being spewed forth.
My God hon, your writing is just awful. I'd be ashamed to have some of the things you've posted seen by the public.

"I am playing into your garbage." Just what does that supposed to mean?

I have offered many, many serious issues that could have been discussed. You chose to rant and rave. You are very obviously incapable of having a rational discussion.

You say Georgie is doing a great job, yet you offer nothing as proof. Is that because none exists?

"I know it's ahrd(?) to hear about your "party and how digustingly pathetic they are. the facts are right there for you."

Two things: First-what was the purpose of the quotation marks before the word party? Secondly-I have to repeat-just what is this statement supposed to mean? You just blabber on and on without making a lick of sense or making some kind of point.

And now you're lying-because it is obvious that you do indeed read my posts. By saying that you don't just makes you look like a bigger fool-if that's possible.

You are the one being CHILDISH, not me. You are unable to disprove anything so you puff up and pound your chest like some gorilla trying to scare something away.

I am not bashing anyone, nor am I breaking any rules. If you honestly believe that a mod hasn't been keeping tabs on us, then you live in a dark room or something.

I would be more than happy to have some sort of serious discussion with you. It just seems you can't handle the truth.
C'mon back when you have something of merit or something valid to bring to the table.

Oh yeah, you didn't answer me about meeting up at a future event. How about it-are you up to it?

[kwanfanatic2002]

NO COMMENT, YOU ARE NOT WORTH IT. FOR GODS SAKE, GROW UP AND STOP CAUSING TROUBLE.


Laura Bush has been traveling over seas and has made some good comments. I like to hear her, and wish she would speak up more often.She has some great things to say. SHe's a great first lady. Possibly one of the best,at least since I have been following politics. SHe is sure a change of pace from what we had prior. She is someone you be proud of, unlike Hillary.One of the reason I like her so much is because they are so good together. It is ovvious she and George truly love and respect each other. She does not have controversy following her around. What a great family the Bush family are. They are soooo classy, just good people. I like Barbara Bush as well.

[mr pru]

So you do read my posts.
I guess that means you were lying before when you said you didn't read them.
In a court of law, this would mean you have been discredited as a honorable and trust worthy individual.

Indeed, Mrs. Bush does seem like a decent lady.

It is unfortunate that she has an episode in her past like Ted Kennedy has. At least her accident, which she was at fault-causing the death of a male friend-didn't involve alcohol. It was apparently was just a tragic accident.

There will be future posts concerning Georgie as needed. They may be sooner rather that later if certain criteria is met.

Thanks for a rather spirited discussion of FACTS on my part and denials on yours.

Hope to do it again sometime.

Good night. Sleep tight.

Combat operations have ended on the Forum-Mission Accomplished!!

[kwanfanatic2002]

You have accomplished nothing. I do not lie. I pay not attention to your lies any longer. you are just wasting your time. Go ahead and bash and break the rules. you look pathetic.

Laura Bush is a classy lady with an accident in her past that could happen to anyone. Unfortunately, it did happen to her. Ted Kennedy did involve drinking. He is a poor excuse for a human being.

Laura Bush reminded Pres. Bush before he gave the address to college grads today that "they are there to get their degrees, not to hear an old guy go on for a long time". I wish she would have done that for us, when I graduated from college.Our speaker would not stop talking.

[moxie]

"SHe is sure a change of pace from what we had prior. She is someone you be proud of, unlike Hillary."

KF, I agree with you that Laura Bush has served us well as first lady; she has many fine qualities. What I don't understand is why your praise of Laura seemed to be mostly an excuse to take a dig at Hillary.

Mrs. Clinton also was a hard-working first lady (yes, in a different style) who deserves the same basic respect that is accorded to any first lady (whether or not one happens to agree with her politics). She also has now won praise from both Republicans and Democrats for her diligent work as a senator, and is known to be one of the "uniters" who has voted with both sides.

[mr pru]

If you state that you do not read someone's posts in one answer, then prove the opposite in another-that means you lied in either the first or second post.
It is obvious that you read my last post. Since you had previously stated that you didn't read them-that makes you a liar.

"I pay not attention to your lies any longer." One more time-What is this supposed to mean? How can a person with any kind of intelligence answer something as goofy as that?


If you look closely-I mentioned that Mr. Kennedy's incident did involve alcohol.

I'll be back.

[mr pru]

Let's see if Mrs. Bush is capable of winning an election to the United States Senate like Mrs. Clinton has done.

You'd better watch out KF-your worst nightmare may come to bear fruit-Mrs. Clinton has a decent shot at becoming this country's first female President.

I bet you would leave the USA or stay in a panic room if this were to happen.

[Lanternlight]

I think Hillary does have a chance at being elected President. The right wing consistently overestimates antipathy towards her. Women in particular would be very receptive to her message, and her moderate politics.

[kwanfanatic2002]

OH PULLEEEEEAAAAZE, she is not a moderate. People see righ thru her. I seriously doubt she will get the nomination. SHe is a crook. SHe is involved with the fund raising scandal. SHe is 100% involved. SHe is a iar and a crook. SHe is no moderate. SHe is just trying to lean that way to get more votes. People are not that stupid. SHe is as liberal as she always was.

I do however like her stance on the borders. I think Pres. Bush fails very badly in that area. I doubt she really believes what she is saying now. This is just a tactic to get votes. Clear and simple.

Also, I not care any less what you all say about Bush. If I had the time, I could bash plenty of libs with lots of digs. Bush is doing a very fine job, any opinion you have of him is biased and uninformed. I am not going to bother refuting anything you say. I learned during the election cycle how you cannot talk w/ dems and libs. I have no desire to do so. I am just going to agree to disagree. I DO NOT read your posts, so you are wasting your time anyway. at least maybe a sentence or 2 then I cannot stomach any more bashing and lies.
You cannot stand it that Bush won a 2nd term. We will continue to win until the dems GET A CLUE>

[moxie]

"I do however like her stance on the borders. I think Pres. Bush fails very badly in that area. I doubt she really believes what she is saying now."

You like Hillary's stance, even though you don't think she really believes in it? That's a rather odd statement.

See, much as it's possible for you to favor Bush even though you don't like his stance on the border issue, it's possible to say you like a position Hillary has taken without feeling you have to "justify" it by saying you doubt she really believes what she is saying. I'll bet if you really looked at the votes she has taken in the Senate, and kept an open mind, you would find more agreement with your own positions than you would dream possible.

[mr pru]

Okay-I've been out celebrating my birthday, so it is time to catch up.

"She is a iar and a crook."
Please define iar.
Please inform the fine members of this Forum what criminal offense Mrs. Clinton was convicted of.

"I do not care any less what what you all say about Bush."
HUH??!...What?!... HUH???
For the umpteenth time I sincerely ask: What is that supposed to mean, and how does one reply to such an assinine statement?

Indeed-you could bash liberal minded individuals with "digs"-How about bringing valid points to the table? FACTS as we like to call them around here.

I am far too opened minded to be considered biased. I'm intelligent enough to see both good and bad in individual situations as they arise. For instance, I believe Georgie's daddy was a much better administrator than "dubya". The man had serious government experience. I believe he was head of the CIA, Vice President, and a true war hero who proudly served his country unlike his son.

I have presented NUMEROUS FACTS. So to say that I'm uninformed is just absolutely ridiculous. It further represents immature lashing out on your part.

"I do not read your posts, so you are wasting your time anyway. at (should have been a capital "A") least maybe a sentence or 2 then I cannot stomach anymore bashing and lies."
Now, where to start with this one. It may be the best one yet. First you post that you don't read my posts even though the FACTS prove otherwise. This shows you don't really care for telling the truth. Now you say that, again, you don't read my post-but WAIT-MAYBE just a sentence or two.
HUH?!!!
Geez darlin'-Get your stories straight. We don't know what to believe. I think you've confused yourself. Isn't that hard to do?

Please-I repeat-check your emotions at the keyboard and let's speak of FACTS- like over 1,600 American soldiers have lost their lives looking for those weapons of mass destruction.

[kwanfanatic2002]

YAWN YAWN YAWN, same old broing tired commentsd. YES people died In Irag and Afghanistan. Did you expect no one to die??/ Other dems (many of them) have said themselves there was WMD"s. That has been debated ad nauseum. get on with something else. I don't care what you think, and I doubt the other right leaners want to read your bashing either.
I find it ironic you are ALWAYS posting on this side. What si yoy objective???? You are trying to cause truble and incite arguments. I think we should do the same on the left side. IF you have no other goal, then go back and post it on the other side. That is nothing to gain here. You are not going to change anyones mind. You have not now or ever will do that. I am sick of it, it's against the rules and ridiculous.

Hillary Clinton is about as phony a person as you will find. SHe is doing what she needs to do to get votes. I can't stand her and I am not going to waste my time checking her voting record. i hear enough of it on the radio and the internet. SHe is a liberal deep down.; She is not going to change her spots. Don't fool yourself. Her husband and herself are both phony and dishonest. The statement I made about her is not an odd satement. SHe is lying and trying to be somene she is not.
That is ODD, but then again what else is NEW?????.

[kwanfanatic2002]

There is an article in the usnews.com about the state of the media in the US. It is saying it is in trouble. That is sooo true.
They are extremely biased and it is only getting worse.

In March, a report on the state of the media by the Project For Excellence in Journalism, said in the past 17 yrs Americans have "come to see the press as less professional, less moral, more inaccurate, and less caring about the interests of the country".

According to the report, fewer than half of American's think of the press as highly progessional-49%, down from 72% yrs ago. Another finding was that coverage of Pres. Bush during the presidential campaign was three times more negative as coverage of John Kerry.(36% to 12%). If the press is that much out of sync with the country, it's future looks very uncertain. Something needs to be done.
The media in trouble (http://realclearpolitics.com)

Very true, but nothing is going to be done and nothing is going to change.

[moxie]

"There is an article in the usnews.com about the state of the media in the US. It is saying it is in trouble. That is sooo true.
They are extremely biased and it is only getting worse."

KF, I find it interesting that you claim to not read and/or trust the mainstream media (which includes usnews.com, the web site of the magazine U.S. News & World Report)
... EXCEPT when you find an article that supports your own particular views.

Then, suddenly, you trust the mainstream media's story enough to post it here & tout it as being "sooo true."

Do you trust all the stories on usnews.com, or just this particular one?

[kwanfanatic2002]

I dont trust anyone in the media, Obviously not many other people do as well. Their ratings are dropping badly.

This morning Dean was on the Meet the Press show and commented that Osoma Bin Laden had nothing to do with 9/11. What a joke. This is who is leading your party. No wonder you all are in trouble, with a leader like that.

[moxie]

"I dont trust anyone in the media, Obviously not many other people do as well. Their ratings are dropping badly."

But I thought you listened to Rush & Laura Ingraham all the time ... and they are in the media. Now you're saying you don't trust them?

And don't you always talk about Fox News & how happy you are when the Fox ratings go up? Fox is in the media, too. Don't you trust them either?

[mr pru]

Your blatant disregard for the truth continues to astound me.

You mentioned Mrs. Clinton was a crook. I ask, but you forgot-I guess-to inform us of the crime that she was convicted of.

If Georgie had been honest-most likely no one would have died. If there had been WMDs, the US Air Force most likely could have taken care of the problem. Chances are no planes would have been lost due to Iraqi anti-aircraft fire. Since there was no legitimate reason to invade Iraq-Georgie and his cronies had to manufacture one. Because of this 1,630 American soldiers are dead.

Since his ridiculous showboating on May !st, 2003 declaring that major combat operations had ended-1,492 have died-FACT.

I believe I saw a thread that some left leaners started. Since you mentioned it-why don't you go to it and post some FACTS-like I have here? Remember now, no emotional outbursts that you do so well. Try to stay on subject-no ranting or chest thumping. I'll bet you can't do it.

First you post something straight from the "media" and declare how "very true" it is. Then in your VERY NEXT POST you say you don't trust anyone in the "media".
Moxie's post was dead on the money. Now which is it? Do you distrust the entire media or just the part that prints things you can't handle being informed of?

You are so full of contradictions that it is pathetic. You spew one thing in one post, then post just the opposite in another.

Do you honestly believe people don't see that?

You continue to range from one end of the spectrum to the other, ranting and raving, spewing hatred and proving to all that you are incapable of intelligent discussion.

[elliebea]

I am not bashing anyone, nor am I breaking any rules.

Mr. Pru. I frankly disagree. Here are some examples:

It is not our fault that you have yet to grasp the ability to write the English language the way it was intended to be.
This does not bode well for any offspring you may conceive.
To continually lash out at people for your own miscues and failures shows a deep personality flaw.

By not correcting your mistakes, you continue to show the members of this fine Forum your ignorance of the English language, not to mention the appearance of lack of education.

What's your intent, by the way?

I ask because your engagement in this ongoing verbal skirmish with this particular poster, on this thread, and in this insulting manner suggests to me that it's something other than seeking honest dialogue and the sharing of information.

It's bothersome to witness an anti-war activist use the sad facts of this illegal and immoral war to provoke an easy target for mere ego-gratification and one-upmanship. It's cheap baiting. Or so it looks like to me, objectively speaking.

The ability to spell -- or not -- is an indicator of neither intelligence or education level. Some do -- some don't, and it doesn't warrant judgment. Nor do typos and grammarical errors.

However, undue self-pride over these things is pretty YUCKY.

[mr pru]

I apologize if it appeared to you if I was engaging in stroking my own ego, or trying to get into a argument of one-upmanship. It certainly wasn't my intent.

It is pleasing that you agree that the Iraqi war is indeed illegal and immoral.

My intent was to bring up concerns I had about the Bush administration's policies and decision making processes.

Instead of being answered with facts or logic, I was bombarded with a bunch of emotional gibberish time after time.

I would truly enjoy honest dialogue and information sharing instead of someone being less than truthful in whether or not my posts are being read by said individual. Why would someone insult the intelligence of a Forum by insisting posts were not read, when it was obvious to all that they were being read.

If she wants to ignore my posts-then more power to her. I wouldn't lose a single second of sleep if this were the case. It's just real, real sad when someone states something and thinks you'll believe it even though it is obvious it is not true.

Is there anything wrong with proof reading what you have typed before you press the "Add Reply" entry?
Is there anything wrong with using the Spell Check option?
I spell words wrong, leave out words in sentences, transpose letters-the whole works. However, I TRY to correct these mistakes before presenting them for public consumption. If you go back over my posts, I have no doubt that you'll find numerous mistakes. No one is perfect.

This poster claimed to be a college graduate in one of her posts. Read them again. If you were a college professor, what kind of grade would she receive from you?

Be honest.

[EigthAv]

Yeah! It looks like the so-called anti-war crew has declared their own war on KwanFanatic.Is KF in possession of weapons of mass destruction? What are you afraid of???? Once again the right-leaning thread is being held hostage by defectors from the left.Things must be getting boring over there. KF,I may have to pull Taraist out of retirement if this keeps up.:eek Taraist's (how you like that plural mr pru:lol ) specialty is taking on board bullies..........so Clinton never launched any cruise missiles into Iraq.......and already ravaged parts of Africa??? I seem to recall the big "Wag the Dog Clinton" cover on a prominent American magazine.Implications being that President Clinton was using "mild" missile attacks to draw the heat from his infidelity situations.I would be the first one to agree that cheating on a spouse doesn't effect the economy or directly effect foreign affairs.........but what about launching those super expensive missiles more as a smokescreen to mask hanky panky than as a legitimate need to attack? Clinton seems to be in favour of the new Iraqi goverment succeeding.I've also seen Hillary Clinton lately,rubbing elbows with Newt Gingrich on a common political goal.One thing I give the Clintons is that unlike some of their Democrat peers,they aren't hell bent on the anti-Bush campaign.I think Bill actually likes George W.There are things to like,when you stop trying so hard to find things to hate.

[mr pru]

ALL-RIGHT!!

Finally, someone brings up valid points!
I love it!

Clinton did indeed do the things you mentioned and he was most certainly in the wrong for making those decisions.
He would have been much better off to just to come out and say that he enjoyed having a pretty young girl service him in the Oval Office instead of lying like he did.

I've already made my point about individuals that lie.

I truly don't hate Georgie. I just don't feel he has "earned his stripes" so to speak. I wish he would've brought in some of his own people (if he had any-ha-ha) instead of recycling his daddy's boys.

It wouldn't surprise me if Cheney runs the country instead of Bush.

At least you use apostrophes! That, I can handle.

[EigthAv]

Mr.Pru,I once worked for a band leader who would say,"requestes"-pronounced:requestiz, rather than "requests".:lol It was plum quaint! There are things about Clinton that I liked and I actually like him more now.I thought GW Bush was wise to utilize his dad and Bill Clinton as ambassadors in the aftermath of the tsunami disaster.Clinton has also worked some with former rival,one of my repo heroes,Big Bob Dole. The Slickster could have avoided much embarrassment if had invited Lipinski to the White House in honour of her astonishing "Grand Slam" in 1997........and of course kept his hands off of her....,and not invited Lewinsky for...........whatever.:eek I had no problems with Clinton catting round,just problems with it going on right there in our sacred oval office. I have heard rumours that would imply he wasn't the 1st USA Prez to do that. That doesn't excuse a thing and dirty birdies on all Presidents who have ever used OUR White House for THEIR naughty-naughties. I like KwanFanatic and it just seemed like ya'll were ganging up.KF,I have assumed you are a lady............now I will ask,so that in the future I'll know for sure whether to say he or she.Keep in mind,that you are cute when you get mad at your pundits and it could well be that they sometimes push your buttons just to unleash your fightin' side.I sometimes enjoy "debating" the President Bush issues with my favourite brother and sis n law who also happen to be amongst my dearest bestist friends.I think they are sometimes exaggerating their anti-Bushism and I know that sometimes I'm countering with near puke level Bush gushing.:lol It's all cool.Bush/Cheney/Rice are the big potentates now and the big barbie cue grill goes with the territory.

[elliebea]

No apologies needed! I think we all know your frustration; as a matter of fact, most of us have been there with this particular poster and have learned not to go again.

Sorry -- won't answer your imaginary professorship question. It's rather like being baited to do some criticizing of my own over the grammar-typo-spelling question. I'm such a believer in listening, reading, and paying attention no matter the form used in expression.

As for:

My intent was to bring up concerns I had about the Bush administration's policies and decision making processes.

If you're anything like me, you probably have a regular impulse to scream the facts from the rooftops and wake people up, and have been feeling this way for nearly three years. What's going on in this country? In truth, war-mongers bother me far less than war-passives.

The persons I most want to reach and hopefully inform are the 'Prozac,' crowd: those seemingly conscientious, well-meaning, intelligent, educated, mature persons who go thoughtlessly about their very enjoyable American lives having figured that, of course, Iraq had to be invaded (after all, we were attacked by 'people over there'), although now, perhaps, it wasn't 'worth it' after all. But mainly, the same people who otherwise give it not much thought at all. I'm not suggesting these people do take Prozac, incidentally, but I'm personally more appalled by American indifference than I am about those whose vitrolic war-cries are, after all, born of some sort of fear (which is not necessarily of terrorism).

No doubt you know these persons: ones whose intelligence and moral inclinations should -- by all expectations -- compel them to demand to know alot more before even considering acquiesence for a brutual and predatory invasion under the auspices of "pre-emption." Those who now sigh, shrug, and perhaps ask (at least those who don't look to change the subject), 'Well, how can we get out now?' or merely remark resignedly, 'Yeah, it's really terrible' (accompanied by some nebulous remark about it not turning out like expected).

What do you tell them? Is your method to bring up the Hague Conventions, the UN Charter, or the Geneva Conventions? Or perhaps to enumerate the true reasons for the war and the truths behind the endless false claims during the lead-up? Or to describe the reality of the invasion as it truly happened (slaughtering civilians all the way to Baghdad, dropping cluster bombs, or perhaps the effects of DU)? Or is it to discuss the current reality, that very little of Iraq is stable, that insurgents control most of the country while the American embassy and the newly minted Iraqi government is barricaded in the Green Zone? And that journalists dare not travel outside of this small area, their reports therefore mere stenography of the Pentagon message du-jour? How about the wholesale corruption and war-profiteerism?

And does your knowledge and view of the situation overwhelm you sometimes to such an extent that you're actually rendered speechless in the face of such visible apathy? Have you experienced the eye-rolling, sarcasm, and friendly ridicule from these otherwise courteous and moral people? And if the answer is yes, have you started to wonder if the whole world has gone crazy (but for those knowledgeable and even expert online voices)?

This is the dialogue I'd like to have. How to get through. Simply that.

If you've developed a technique, particularly with those I described above, please let me know. (But consider, I live in the Bible belt -- perhaps at the very buckle.)

Thanks.


Whoops! Had at least one mispelling, probably more, and I think I'm just gonna leave it as is!

[kwanfanatic2002]

Hi Mike, yes I am female. I was going to post that when ever they are finished holding the right leaning side hostage to let us know. It it ironic that they have to post on our side. You are right, things must be getting boring over there. WHen you lose elections and your power, all you have left is to bash and lie and spin. No wonder I was feeling dizzy. I thought it was my blood pressure. I find it good for a few laughs. I have stopped reading their garbage and lies.

I think you should pull out Tara. Can you imagine her with Clinton?. I think things would get interesting with here here. You're right, he should have Called Tara instead of Monica. I am still wondering who is going to be your VP when she becomes President? Are you going to be VP. I would vote for you and Tara before I voted for anyone on the left considering running now. My husband likes to log on here because he said their lies and foolishness is good for a laugh.

I don't think Bush is perfect. I wish he would do more with the borders. In Canada as well as Mexico.The terrorists are coming in from Canada too. I don't think he is taking it seriously enough. i do think he is doing a great job though and he is a good man. I support him 100%. I am beginning to like Bill a little bit more now that he is not President anymore. As a man, he is Ok. I am glad Bush43 used his dad and Bill too.
I hope Bill is feeling better after his heart surgery.I liek him better than I like his wife. I will never like her. I like it that she is bringing attention to the border issue though.

As far as me having WMD's, yeah i have them. you better watch it, I might unleash them. My fightin side was unleashed when my daughter was diaganosed w/cancer. We have successfully defused that. THANK GOD THANK GOD THANK GOD. I love that kid more than anything in the world.
Thanks for the nice words Mike. i appreciate it a lot. i like you two. I enjoy reading your posts. I read all of them!!!. unlike some others. I don't have that problem w/ my brother not liking Bush. He is worse than I am, if that is possible.
Thanks again for the nice words Mike. it's nice to know there are good people here.

[mr pru]

Well my user name is mr pru, so that should be a big hint. Iwas given that name by kwanette at Nats in Dallas. My "friend" who is a girl user name is Prudence 19. Since we were together, kwanette dubbed me "mr pru".

Duh!!-I thought the he/she reference was about me-Double Duh!!

Clinton was wonderful for the economy. I'm a Union Electrician, and never missed a day's work when he was in office. Republicans have historically been tough on labor unions. The work picture has just really dried up since Mr. Bush has taken office.
Clinton obviously had the morals of an alley cat, but IMO he had the middle class more in his sights than Mr. Bush does.
Bush's tax cuts truly do favor the wealthy. I'm not bitter, he just presented to the public like the ordinary Joe was going to benefit like the wealthy have.
Politicians in general are on power trips, at least to me they are. I could see where having a sexual interlude in the Oval Office could serve to feed that sort of appetite.
I was stunned at KF's answers. I guess I did kinda' come down with both feet a time or two. Having a rational discussion-like this one with you-was truly my intentions.

Bush seems to be getting a little resistance from some members of his own party on a few issues. From what I understand-this is common among most second term Presidents. Maybe they feel they must face their voters more than pleasing a lame duck President.

I'm wondering-who do think the Repubs will push in '08? I'm not sure McCain is the right man, although I like the man.

[elliebea]

Mike,
You brought up Clinton's outrages as all good Republicans do in the face of irefutable critique, notwithstanding that it's pretty much a non sequitur, conversationally speaking.
But I'll join in. I don't much like him either, mainly because he screwed over the very people who voted him in.

As for the 'Wag the Dog' escapade, I'll go you one better: as I've pointed out to many (from both sides), it was even worse. "Wag the Dog" (the movie) was about a fictitious threat and defense thereof -- Clinton's actions were quite real. The pharmaceutical factory in the Sudan was, as I recall, the only one in that country and therefore a grave loss. No doubt there were plenty of casualties. So this was no 'wag the dog.' It was brutal use of other peoples' property and well-being for the purpose of diverting public attention. (By comparison, the Afghanistan strike was merely a waste of taxpayer funded weaponry.)

I think it's a real mistake for any of us, on either side, to get overly focused on the personal flaws of the central person of the other side. It produces tunnel vision on all the issues. So I personally try to avoid either idealizing or demonizing because the truth is that a great many of our mutual grievances (and I'll bet there are plenty) are created and maintained by both parties, and in tandem. It's very much in the interests of the professional politicians to keep us squabbling, especially over trivia. (Not suggesting that cruise missiles are trivia, though.)

[mr pru]

Your post about being frustrated was just fantastic. How you put all that into words was amazing.
The feeling that intelligent people just BELIEVE all of propaganda is awful. You're right, they should be asking questions.

My hat is off to you. Congrats!!

Kwanfanatic-on a very serious note: I can't even imagine being in your shoes. I have a 17 year old son, and to think of being told he has cancer...It just makes me shudder. My mother died from colon cancer. I still miss her to this day, four and one-half years later.

My heart goes out to you and your husband, as well to her.

I know it won't mean much to you, because of who it is coming from-But I will pray for the health of your daughter. Every child deserves to grow up and experience like at its fullest. May God bless your family.

[kwanfanatic2002]

Thank You Mr. Pru. I appreciate that more than you I could say. She is only 9. (9 1/2 if you ask her). She is my heart and soul . Thank you very much for that. We all appreciate it.

I was at Nats in Dallas a few years ago. I and a few other fans waited outside for Michelle to come out a door we thought she would come out of. SHe went out another door though and we were told she was in a tunnel or something, so we tried to get there but we missed her. I got to see her though and that was enough for me. SHe is so beautiful and tiny in person. Do you all live in Dallas, or did you fly in for the Comp.?. I lived in Dallas until my daughter started school. The Dallas schools here are terrible. Don't even get me started on the City Council and Mayor.

[mr pru]

We live in Louisville, Ky. We fly to as many comps as we can afford.
I was petrified of flying (never had done it) before we flew to Dallas. God I was scared. But I had to do it for Michelle and Pru. We've since been to Atlanta, Minneapolis, Pittsburgh, Detroit and Portland. We'll be at Nats, the fall cheesefest, and probably Skate America.
Michelle is a beautiful woman. Pru got her autograph at a practice session while I took a picture. Alas, Pru accidently erased it!!
While in Dallas, we were stunned while looking out the window of our hotel, (Hyatt-I believe or a Hilton-one of the two) and watching the evening traffic go down what looked like some major highway. It was backed up what seemed like FOREVER!

Try to get to an event this season. It could be our last chance to view the Kween in all of her glory.

God bless and good luck!!

[kwanfanatic2002]

Yes, you witnessed rush hour traffic here. One of the hotels you referred to just announced they are declaring backrutcy. It is not the one you stayed in though.
We have some great hotels here. My husband and I take a long weekend occasionally and stay in one of them. We always have a good time.

Michelle is beautiful, inside and out. I would love to meet her one day and have some time to talk with her. I would love to meet her parents and Ron and Karen as well. They are special people. Pru erased your autograph. That's worthy of a stiff sentence. that's swful. I tried to get her autograph but didn't.

I have dear friends that live in Louisville Ky. They are moving though because Doug just got his Ph.D. I enjoy going to visit them. It is a beautiful city. When I go to Canada, we always stop and spend time with them.

i am going to TRY and go to Nats and Skate America. It depends on my daughter staying well and we are building a house now. My husband is spending too much money on it. I want to see Michelle again because like you said this might be the last time we see her as an ameteur (sp?).

[mr pru]

If nothing else-try to make it to Nationals. It is a longer event and there is more time to see Michelle at practices. There is a good chance of her giving some autographs if you're in the right place at the right time.
It was the the picture that Pru erased, not the autograph. But you are right, she deserved to be spanked.-wink-wink!!
Your daughter's health and future home is more important than going to a competition-I guess. Hah-Hah! That is why maybe you should try to get to just one competition. Tell hubby that this could be the last year for Michelle to skate, and he just has to understand that you must see Michelle at least one more time before she retires or turns pro.

My alarm clock goes off at 4:30 a.m.-so I must bid farewell for the evening.
I mean it-Tell hubby that you all need to figure out a way to see Michelle this upcoming season. It's never too early to start making plans and putting money aside for something you obviously enjoy so much.

When I lay down in a minute-before I close my eyes-I will say a heartfelt prayer for your daughter's health.

Good night. Sleep tight.

[kwanfanatic2002]

Thank you so very much for praying for my daughter. I don't have to tell another parent how special kids are. I appreciate it more than I can say. Corey and Jessica do also. thank you from the bottom of our hearts.

A close friend of mine has told Corey has talked with her about me going to see Michelle again. I didn't know anything about it. I have a birthday coming up in August, so I think I may be getting tickets.Just a guess though.Corey is pretty thoughtful and he knows how much Michelle means to me. I think I will be at one of them at least. I wish I could fly around the country to see her. She is worth it. There will never be another Michelle, IMHO. I think the idea someone posted on MK Fan chat or Skating about everyone here getting together for a dinner in honor of Michelle and her family is a good idea. I would like to meet people from here.

[madison]

Oh, man,
There is HOPE for the world!:)

Thank you both, KF and "mr pru".

I will say a prayer for your daughter tonight also, KF.<img border=0 src="http://home.comcast.net/~luenatic/skatingpic/mk_cho.gif" />

[kwanfanatic2002]

Thank Ml, I appreciate that more than you know, and so does she. Deep down when things really count, most people are basically good people with good hearts. We are all Michelle fans, so we have good taste there. how could anyone who is a Michelle fan be wrong?????.

I don't really want to bring politics into this, but Ml and Mr pru , I think we handed you 2006 tonight w/ the "compromise on the judges". What a joke. Republicans caved. Frist just blew his chance for the nomination in 08. GOOD!!!!. He did it to himself. Enjoy!!!!.

[EigthAv]

It does my heart good to see some nice peaceful mutual admiration for Michelle going on here.:D Last Friday night,after being at odds with loved ones on the political,television,movies and sports issues,we wound up digging on some mutually agreeable good music together.I can't say enough good things about the value of good music. Oh well,enough sicky poo "you scratch my back,I'll scratch yours" molarky....back to the grind......<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->Republicans have historically been tough on labor unions. The work picture has just really dried up since Mr. Bush has taken office.<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->I guess it all depends on where you live and what your own experiences are.I served for a few years as greivance chairman for my local chapter of the Amalgamated Clothing & Textile Workers Union.For every election,Union members received the "who to vote for" sheets from the Union.I was always told that the democrats were going to work hard for us Union workers.Nothing ever changed.Alabama has a Republican Governor now and a few repos in the legislaure.Back then,in the 70s,the Alabama Democrats ruled everything in the state.Our Union had some good,hard working,well meaning members.Our Union had no teeth.We had a "no strike" clause in our contract.A state law called the "Right to Work" law made sure that any non union workers working along side us union workers could get everything that we had to fight for.My home town,Montgomery,in particualr,was known for being "anti-Union". A republican city mayor,Mr.Emory Folmar,worked to make sure out firefighters,city sanitation workers and our police officers would have fair wages and decent benefits......and that the services would better serve the taxpayers. In an otherwise poverty stricken state whose books were routinely in the red,Montgomery,under Mayor Folmar,operated in the black and we had low unemployment numbers.Our current mayor,a democrat,Mr.Bobby Bright used the colours of the rainbow card (you do photo ops surrounding yourself with an international/inter-racial blend of locals and imply your opponent is a bigot) against Folmar and made promise-promises-promises.Since most of us don't bother to do our homework and take television campaign ads at face value,the strategy worked.Among other things,taxpayers have since financed a state of the art baseball park to attrct a minour league baseball team to our city.A team that only a minority of our citizens wanted.I hear arena football is next.:rolleyes in a city that won't even support high school football.If we have all this money,why are public school kids still attending classes in portable classrooms??? I have my fears that we are going to end up with a couple of fancy sports arenas that we are still paying for after the two sports teams have given it up and left town.One of the excuses for the massive spending that is going own in our downtown area is that we need to get Montgomerians re-interested in downtown.Good luck.Private enterprise has constructed huge-big attractive malls and I doubt the mallgoites plan to return to downtown.Baseball fanatics here prefer Atlanta and the big league braves.ootbll fans here ride past our high school stadium,mostly ignore the Alabama St games and go to the Auburn U and U of Alabama games.Maybe we could bring in gambling casinos and legalize prostitution in the downtown area to help attract more downtown commerce.Back before the malls,when there was lots of commerce going on downtown,we had the gambling and the prostitution.Twas quite illegal,but the bosses were looking the other way.........in the name of business.The mayor of those days was a democrat.I won't even go into Alabama's Wallace era..........yup,it all depends on where you are and where you've been.I don't belong to either party and prefer to vote for candidates,not parties.I do lean a bit to the so-called right.Is it because I'm right handed????? My brother is left handed and he leans a little left..........There is plenty of work.It all depends on how nitpicky you are and/or how hungry you are.I've survived a myriad of different presidents and governors.:lol I'll stick to self-employment. I kind of like my boss.:D A slave driver,but he does have a sense of humour. .........Pru,perhaps we will cross paths someday at a groovy fs event.We could have a blast,arguing politics,rooting for Kwan and debating important Harding/Baiul/Kerrigan/Hughes/Lipinski/Cohen/whoever issues.I had a bizarro dream recently in which Irina Slutskaya had somehow became Governor of Alabama.:eek I had to wonder if this board in any way prompted the dream.

[Beth2000]

I am a Conservative Republican and proud of it!!!!!!

My nephew was a Ranger in the Army. He is now home. He is giving back to the Army such as being in school. He said, he would much rather be over in Iraq with a gun in his hand killing terrorists then sitting in a classroom.

[kwanfanatic2002]

Hi Beth, welcome back. it's good to see you posting here again. I am with you. I am a proud Conservative Republican too. Please say thank you to your nephew. I hope he is Ok.
My daughters teacher from last year has a son over in Iraq. He has been home and spoke to my daughters clss. he said he is proud of his work and the acomplishments they are making over there. He is really upset about the biased media here and the poor job of reporting they are doing.
I'm proud of what the troops are doing and accomplishing. They are doing a great job.

[Beth2000]

Hey Kwanfanatic, my nephew is doing great. He hates the way the media is protraying Iraq too. He has said so much good is going on over there and yet the media doesn't say a word about it.

I myself don't watch anything about Iraq on the news b/c to them all that is happening is doom and gloom. When I hear the soliders who have returned talking about the good then I know the media is off in left field.

[kwanfanatic2002]

Beth, I said a prayer for your nephew and family. I wish him and your family the Best.

As you can see, things have not gotten any better. They have gotten worse actually. I didn't think that was possible.

There is a new book coming out next month about Hillary Clinton. It will not be good news about her. It will "sink her candidacy" chances, according to "a source close to Ed Klein.The title of the book is The truth about Hillary:What she knew, when she knew it and how far she'll go to become President.

It is written by Edward Kein who is no Conservative hatchet man. He's the former editor in chief of the New York Times Magazine.
MSNBC, Joe Scarborough claimed its contents are "top secret", but could torpedo Clintons chances at a run for the WH. Rumors that the book "won't be pretty" and is "brimming with new dirt" have circulated in the New York Times Press for four months.
It will also prove that she lied to America in her autobiography;"Living History".
Clinton book rushed into print (http://newsmax.com)

It sounds like this will be a good read. I am curious to see how much she is hiding. I wonder what this book will do to her chances for reelection in 06.

Edited to add: Priscilla Owen was confirmed today.Finally after 4 years. I am not holding my breath that the left is going to keep their word and not filibuster any other nominees. I think the "nitwit 7" Rhino's have harmed their reelection chances. I hope the first one to be defeated is John MCain. I hope he does not get the Pres. nomination in 08.

[mr pru]

KF2002-

Good to see you're back at full strength-swinging that axe-chopping away!!

It really is obvious that you're recording things off the radio and typing them back word for word.

Go on ahead girl. I just don't have the energy right now. They wore me out at work today.

Oh yeah-I'm still saying my nightly prayer.

-Tim-

[moxie]

"It is written by Edward Kein who is no Conservative hatchet man. He's the former editor in chief of the New York Times Magazine."

KF, I find it interesting that you often criticize the mainstream media (particularly the New York Times) and say you never read/trust anything written or broadcast there, and yet you are quite willing to read/trust this particular book by a former Times staffer ... because it might have anti-Hillary information in it.

I asked this question of you last week and never got an answer: Do you truly dislike/distrust "the media"?
Or do you sometimes like/trust "the media" when you see a story that happens to fit your own particular views?

[kwanfanatic2002]

Pru, I do not record anything off a radio or tv show. I am perfectly capable of thinking for myself. thank you.

Thank you for praying for my daughter. I appreciate it very much. SHe is running a fever now and I am kind of worried about it. Eveytime she gets sick now, I am going to be thinking her cancer is back.

Moxie, my reason for posting that is so everyone can find out what a phony Hillary is. She is always getting a pass from the media and it's time that she is exposed for who she really is. I don't believe a worf she says. Most people (including myself) do not trust the media. Why should we? What is there to believe.??

I see you all cannot help yourself and you still have to come here in this side and stir things up. It must be boring to be a democrat. IS nothing going on on your side that you have to get your jollies over here?????.

[moxie]

I don't believe a worf she says. Most people (including myself) do not trust the media. Why should we? What is there to believe.??

Well, then, why would you believe anything in a book that was written by a person with connections to the New York Times? I don't understand your logic in saying that "most people" do not trust the media, and then following that up by posting information about a book by a media person ... so that people can learn about it, read it and trust it. If they and you don't trust the media, why would you trust the contents of this book? Can you please explain that to me?

I see you all cannot help yourself and you still have to come here in this side and stir things up. It must be boring to be a democrat. IS nothing going on on your side that you have to get your jollies over here?????.

KF, as I have stated in this thread before: When the moderators reestablished political chat, they did not create "right-leaning" or "left-leaning" threads (individual posters did that); they left it up to us to create as many threads as we wish and to post wherever we wish.
So I will indeed post wherever I wish.

If you don't like that, there's a simple solution:
Ignore what I write.

[kwanfanatic2002]

Moxie, I didn't say I was going to read the book. I know you don't like hearing about the media, but I and the majority of people in America do not trust the media.That is a fact. I cannot stand Hillary and I am just glad someone is going to finally expose her for the fraud she is. SHe has had so much controversy around her since she came into public life, along with her husband. It's time we find out what they are up to and what they are hiding.

The mods also said NO BAshing. You all have been doing that relentessly here. WHy do you all feel the need to come over here and bash myself and other Repubs. (Bush and his admins). If you don't like what I say, then don't reply. This is for Republicans. Is there nothing going on over there, that you have to come here and cause trouble. How boring.

[mr pru]

The emotional gibberish starts all over again.

No rational argument or fact.

What a pity.

[moxie]

Moxie, I didn't say I was going to read the book. I know you don't like hearing about the media, but I and the majority of people in America do not trust the media.That is a fact. I cannot stand Hillary and I am just glad someone is going to finally expose her for the fraud she is.

You said you were looking forward to this book coming out (even though it's by a media person who you don't trust). Sorry, I took that to mean you might actually read it. That's OK, you can just wait for others to read it and then just tell you what to think about it.

The mods also said NO BAshing. You all have been doing that relentessly here.

I never bash.

If you don't like what I say, then don't reply. This is for Republicans.

No, it's for everyone.
(Plus, the term "right-leaner" is not the same as "Republican," since not all right-leaners are Republican and not all Republicans are right-leaners.)

I love it when you reply. Your responses usually prove exactly the point I am trying to make about how some right-leaners arrive at their opinions. I don't have to bash. You do it for me.

[kwanfanatic2002]

You two are crazy. i know its hard to hear bad things about your party and stay in your own side. I have given facts about the left ad nauseaum. Hillary is going down.
You all cannot handle the truth. I see you all did dispute the fact that she has things to hide.
Moxie, good grief. I am so sick of you all accusing people of not being to think for themselves. This is ridiculous. I am PERFECTLY CAPABLE OF THINKING FOR MYSELF. I dont need you or anyone else to tell me how to think. Unlike the left, we are able to think for ourselves. We don't have to have a poll to tell us how to think, or act.
You two are sounding ridiculous.

Did you all see the episode of Law and Order last nite. I didn't see it but heard about it on the radio. Someone was killed and the investigator on the show said something to the effect that they should find someone with a Tom Delay shirt on as their suspect.
Tom Delay has filed a complaint with NBC. Not that it is going to do any good, the damage is done. The show has already aired. I hope they are fined a huge amount for that. I don't know why that surprises me. They cannot sink any lower. How disgusting and pathetic. I stopped watching that show a long time ago. THere is a man on the show that collapsed after the elections and had to be rushed to the hospital because Kerry lost. (thank GOD). He is a heavy set man, probably in his 40,s.
WHat a sore loser. There seems to be nothing the left will not sink to. They are clueless and very sad.

I am so Happy that Michelle committed to 2006. YEAH MICHELLE, GOOD LUCK. YOU CAN DO IT. YOU ARE THE BEST.

[moxie]

I see you all did dispute the fact that she has things to hide.

We "did dispute"?

Actually, I didn't say anything on it one way or the other. I'm planning to read the book first.

Moxie, good grief. I am so sick of you all accusing people of not being to think for themselves. This is ridiculous. I am PERFECTLY CAPABLE OF THINKING FOR MYSELF.

I never accused you of not being able to think for yourself. But if you've already decided not to read the Hillary book, there's no possible way for you to think for yourself about the contents. You will have to rely upon information from some other source.

[Terri]

THere is a man on the show that collapsed after the elections and had to be rushed to the hospital because Kerry lost. (thank GOD).

So nice. :rolleyes

[kwanfanatic2002]

Whats wrong with depending on other people. Do you not depend on peoples opinions about a book before you decide to read it or not.? I cannot stand Hillary. I might read it, might not.I am pretty busy now with our new house and other things. I cannot wait for this book to come out. It's time for the Clinton's to be found out and to face the music.

I found this poll yesterday about how the public feels about the dems filibustering the judicial nominees. This is a gallup poll

69% of the public oppose the dems filibustering the nominees. An overwhelming majority agree with the Reps who say Bush's judicial nominees deserve an up or down vote, according to a survey from yesterday.
The survey also found that 35% want to see the filibuster rules changed so that judicial nominees are subject to an up or down vote.
34% want to see the filibuster rule perserved- but would like to see the Senate have an up or down vote on those nominees.Only 19% say dems were right to filibuster judicial appointees with 12% voicing no opinions.
2 days after it was released , it has yet to be reported on by a single major US news media outlet.

Gallup Poll: filibusters (http://newsmax.com)

Just a mere 3 daysafter agreeing to not filibuster any of Pres. Bush's nominees,the dems are threatening to filibuster Bolton. I knew they would not keep their end of the agreement. You cannot trust them. They want more info about Bolton. They have had access to everything want and they had Bolton in front of them for several hours. What mroe could they want? I think this is just stalling. When they get what they want, what will be their excuse then? Will they vote to confirm him? I doubt it. I wish Bush would just recess appoint him and the other nominees while the Senate is on vacation for a week or so.
Dems threaten to filibuster Bolton (http://realclearpolitics.com)

[moxie]

Just a mere 3 daysafter agreeing to not filibuster any of Pres. Bush's nominees,the dems are threatening to filibuster Bolton.

The agreement was to not filibuster certain JUDICIAL nominees. Bolton is not a judicial nominee. The agreement does not apply to him.

[moxie]

2 days after it was released , it has yet to be reported on by a single major US news media outlet.

Gallup political polls are conducted in partnership with USA Today and CNN, both of which release results simultaneously with Gallup. If USA Today & CNN are not "major" media outlets, I don't know what would be.

[kwanfanatic2002]

The agreement IS BOTH BOLTON and the judges. I knew that was going to be your comment. WRONG

The link I got that poll from said CNN and USA today had not reported the polls. I know they are major news outlets.goor grief.

[moxie]

KF, I went to a right-leaning web site (just so you might try to believe it) to get a description of what happened in the Senate today:

"By Stephen Dinan
THE WASHINGTON TIMES

Democrats blocked an up-or-down vote on the nomination of John R. Bolton as ambassador to the United Nations yesterday, opening their first filibuster of the year three days after a bipartisan deal to avoid filibusters of judicial nominees."

Note that the above says JUDICIAL nominees. Bolton is not a judicial nominee; thus, the agreement does not include him.

As far as the Gallup poll: It was conducted Friday through Sunday and posted on the Gallup site on 5/24; a story also appeared on the USAToday web site on 5/24. Haven't been to CNN yet to see when they posted it.

I did notice that the story about the poll that was posted on newsmax.com included only the results that were least favorable to Democrats. The Gallup poll about the filibuster included several sets of questions worded in different ways; Newsmax chose to report just one set of the questions.

If anyone is interested, the complete poll (and not just Newsmax's carefully selected questions) can be found at Gallup.com.

[kwanfanatic2002]

Senator Frist was on the radio tonight and commented himself that Bolton is included in the agreement. Some of the Senators have also said they are not meaning to filibuster him they just want more info on him. They are trying very hard to come up with something to vote him down on. THey have no reason.

Newsmax did not just pick Cons. based questions. That is something the left does all the time. Recently ABC did a poll about something (I dont recall what it was about, but their results were different from anyones elses because of how their questions were framed.I'm sure both sides are guilty of that.)Anyway you look at it, people are tired of the right and the left and the games they are playing. They need to get off it and get on with the votes. Quit playing games and lying and VOTE.

I meant to post that our gas prices are coming down here. I have payed under $2.00 for a few days now. They hovered around $2 dollars for several days before they finally lowered them. Are they coming down in your areas?
I payed $1.96 at Walmart (with a gift card,so I got3 cents off the price for each gallon).

[moxie]

Senator Frist was on the radio tonight and commented himself that Bolton is included in the agreement.

Since Frist was not a part of the 14 who made this agreement (7 Republicans, 7 Democrats), this is his opinion, not theirs. Ultimately, it will be up to each member of the Senate to decide exactly what the agreement means. But the agreement reached several days ago by the 14 Senators was for judicial only.

Some of the Senators have also said they are not meaning to filibuster him they just want more info on him

Yes; weeks ago, they requested certain documents about Bolton from the administration and have still not gotten them.
The senators have said that as soon as they get this info, they will be prepared to vote. I agree that it's time to resolve this and move on to other important issues facing this country.

[kwanfanatic2002]

Frist is the leader of the majority party, Moxie. He is not part of the "nitwit 7" as they are dubbed, but he does know what he is talking about. good grief. he still has the option on the table for the "nuclear option". He clearly stated, and Lindsay Graham has also that Bolton is part of it. I am not going to argue with you though. Frist is the majority leader and is still in charge. The dems are once again playing games and trying to block him. They need to grow up and get on with it.

[md2be06]

KwanFanatic, here is Frist's statment about the Bolton filibuster:

“Earlier today the Democratic Leader gave a speech denouncing the ‘crossfire of partisan sniping’ in Congress and pressed for comity and cooperation. But tonight, after the Democrats have launched into yet another filibuster of a presidential nomination – this time on John Bolton to serve as UN Ambassador – those words seem empty and hollow.

“Some 72 hours after hailing an agreement that sought to end partisan filibusters, the Democrats have launched yet another partisan filibuster.

“Actions speak volumes, and so does inaction. Given the chance to advance the cause of comity in the Senate, the Democrats have chosen partisan confrontation over cooperation. And rather than working to advance America’s agenda and act by voting on the floor, the Democrats keep stepping on the brake.

“This is a critical time for the United States and for the world. Because of the President’s vision and commitment, democracy is on the march around the globe. And with sensible reform, the United Nations can and should be vital in advancing these developments. But we need to get a UN ambassador in place.

“The cause of peace and international cooperation should not be held hostage to partisan sniping. I would urge my colleagues to end this partisan filibuster of John Bolton.”

frist.senate.gov/index.cf...se_id=1946 (http://frist.senate.gov/index.cfm?FuseAction=PressReleases.Detail&PressRelease_id=1946)

Personally, I don't think he is saying that Bolton was part of the deal on judicial filibusters. I honestly don't know where you are getting that from. Instead, he is trying to point out the irony of the Democrats yelling yippee for bipartisanship one minute and then turning right around and filibustering Bolton the next minute.

I've said this before, but I'll repeat it. I usually share your opinions on political issues. But I sometimes cringe when I read your posts since you can't keep the facts straight. This only hurts our cause. If we want to win the battle, we cannot allow any openings for attack by the Democrats. Which means we have to know what we are talking about!

[mr pru]

She can't keep the FACTS straight because they don't suit her point of view.

She chooses to ignore the FACTS-IF indeed, she is aware of them, which is debatable-and just ramble on in a childish, bellicose manner.

Pay attention to the emotional, irrational response to this post.

The way she responded to everything I brought up before, it's obvious she has no desire to have a normal discussion of FACTS.

Nothing I presented was disputed. I was just told I was a troublemaker, grow up, go away, stop spreading lies-you get the gist of what I'm trying to say.

FACTS get her way-so she pretends they don't exist-and just blurts out whatever she sees fit. The most pitiful thing is though, she really believes that we are going to buy what she says-just because SHE said it!

Sad. Truly sad.

[md2be06]

"She can't keep the FACTS straight because they don't suit her point of view."

I don't think that is true. There are plenty of facts to support Frist's position on the judicial filibuster. Unfortunately, those are not the facts that KwanFanatic stated in her post.

"Nothing I presented was disputed. I was just told I was a troublemaker, grow up, go away, stop spreading lies-you get the gist of what I'm trying to say."

I understand your frustration. I too prefer to debate based on facts rather than name calling, etc.

[mr pru]

I wasn't specifically referring to the Frist issue-you are correct that there are facts concerning his position on the filibuster.

Filibusters are a way of politics. The Repubs used them during the Clinton administration.

I wonder if she is aware of that-or will that be ignored too?

I was basically referring to FACTS in general when presented to her.

She seems to view them as inconvenient.

Again-watch the response to my posts. She won't be able to help herself.

[moxie]

Frist is the leader of the majority party, Moxie. He is not part of the "nitwit 7" as they are dubbed, but he does know what he is talking about. good grief. he still has the option on the table for the "nuclear option". He clearly stated, and Lindsay Graham has also that Bolton is part of it. I am not going to argue with you though. Frist is the majority leader and is still in charge.

Yes, doh, Frist is the leader of the majority party, as chosen by his fellow Republicans. But just because he is "in charge" does not mean that he is a dictator that all will follow, no matter what.

The simple fact is that seven Republicans chose to go against Frist's wishes and align with seven Democrats on the issue of judicial filibusters -- and judicial filibusters only.

When it came to the Bolton issue, these 14 senators did not vote as a unit (for proof, just check the official votings records), because their agreement did not cover the Bolton matter.

And, yes, Frist still has the "nuclear" option -- except that he probably wouldn't have enough votes for that (unless he suddenly changes the rules), because those seven Republicans have already indicated that they don't want to go that route. And, yes, I know they could change their minds.

[kwanfanatic2002]

For the umpteenth time, Frist said it 2 times on the radio yesterday. I see what you are saying md2be. He said itr though.

WRONG PRU. The facts are the facts. The left is tryign to block the nominees. Why else did it take 4 yrs for Owens to get confirmed? THey are trying everything they can to stop it. A cloture vote is a filibuster.
The left is trying to keep the judges from even coming up for a vote. THey have had a very long time to get all the info they want to vote on Bolton. They are stalling. The Reps never took 4 yrs(I'm pretty sure about that ) to confirm a judge like the left is. I have never said the Reps did not use it. THey voted judges in that they really did not want to. Ruth Bader Ginsburg is an example of that.

[moxie]

For the umpteenth time, Frist said it 2 times on the radio yesterday.

He could say it a zillion times and it is still just his opinion of what the agreement was among 14 other senators. Just because he says it doesn't mean that's what the 14 agreed to do.

A cloture vote is a filibuster.

Wrong. A cloture vote is a vote to end debate; extended debate (sometimes called filibuster) can continue if there aren't enough votes to achieve cloture.

The left is trying to keep the judges from even coming up for a vote. THey have had a very long time to get all the info they want to vote on Bolton. They are stalling.

1. The agreement was to allow an immediate vote on most of the judges (which has already happened with Owen), with just two judges excluded.

2. For the upteenth time, Bolton is not a judge. And yes, all the senators (left, right and otherwise) have had to wait a very long time to get the information that they requested. At this point, it's the administration's failure to provide this information that is stalling the process.

The Reps never took 4 yrs(I'm pretty sure about that ) to confirm a judge like the left is.

Better check that again. "The Reps" blocked many, many Clinton nominees (for many years) by refusing to even let the nominees be considered in committee. Thus, there was never a vote on any of these nominees in the Senate. "The Reps" didn't have to filibuster in the full Senate, because they had total control of the committee.

[kwanfanatic2002]

I know Bolton is not a judge. The Repbs did not block a lot of Clintons nominees.
It is not the adminstrations fault that the left is stalling. They have had ample oppurtunity to get the info they wanted and they had Bolton in front of them. They could have asked then. They are stalling and trying to keep him from coming up at all for a vote.IF they are not stalling then why did Barbara Boxer block him fro, bein voted on last week. they are stalling and trying to block him

Happy Memorial Day to everyone. Thank you to anyone who has served in the Military here, or to your family members who have served. I hope you all have a great day Monday.
I was listening to Sean Hannity's man on the street today. THere were several people who did not know what Memorial Day is for. How sad. THey also did not know who Cheney was, who fought in the Civil War or WW11. That is soo sad. We need to do something about better educating people in this country.

[moxie]

More than 50 Clinton nominees were not granted even a hearing by the GOP-led Judiciary Committee. Six more who had hearings were not given the courtesy of a committee vote. About 35 percent of Clinton’s appeals court nominees were blocked without a vote while the GOP controlled the Senate from 1995 to 2000.

And yet the Republicans are complaining about two nominees not getting confirmed ...

[kwanfanatic2002]

Moxie, for Gods sake. There 10 altogether, not 2. It took 4 yrs to get Owens confirmed. Now, the dems are going bak on their word.
Where did you get your facts. I think you are way off, but I am tired and its late. I have heard much different numbers about Clinton and his nominees. None of his nominees took 4 yrs to be confirmed.
No matter how you try and spin it. The left is trying to block all the judges. They want liberal judges so they can legislate from the bench, not adhere to the Constitution. It is all the left has left now. They have lost everything else and will continue to lose elections.

[moxie]

None of his nominees took 4 yrs to be confirmed.

Many of Clinton's nominees were never allowed a committee hearing and were never confirmed. I'm sorry if you don't want to believe that; perhaps you were still living in Canada when all this was going on and were not really following U.S. politics. But the repeated blocking of Clinton's nominees by the GOP is a matter of public record.

[kwanfanatic2002]

I will take your word for it for now and check it out myself later. I have company coming for the holiday weekend and I don't have time to do it right now. It is not what I have been hearing since this all started. I have heard exactly the opposite.

[mr pru]

moxie-

It is entirely possible that KF doesn't understand the entire committee process involved.

[md2be06]

KwanFanatic, what Moxie says is true. The republicans quite successfully blocked many Clinton nominees from getting approved by the senate. This was usually done by bottling up the nomination in committee, so the nominee never even got a vote on the senate floor. This is true and it is something to be proud of, not something to deny. The difference between what was done to Clinton's nominees by republicans and what is being done to Bush's nominees by democrats is that during most of the Clinton years, the republicans had a majority in the senate. So the majority was making a decision on the Clinton nominees. Now, we have a minority party, the democrats, making a decision on Bush nominees. That is a big difference. Decisions made in the senate should reflect the views of a majority of Americans.

Do you see now how much better it is to argue based on facts, rather than declaring that is not true anytime someone says something you dislike? Calling someone a liar is usually not a very effective debating technique, especially when they are not lying.

[mr pru]

Excellent point!!

The fact that a minority is able to pull this off should maybe be considered a greater accomplishment (if you want to call it that) than what the Repubs did to Clinton.

This, after all, is partisan politics on both fronts-just different times in history.

[EigthAv]

I admit that Bolton makes me a bit nervous,but do I want a "yes man" for UN Ambassador? No. At the moment,the USA needs an ambassador who will go in and shake the tree. I don't want a UN that looks like the ISU.Someone correct me if I'm wrong........I'm assuming that the President can fire ambassadors if they go over the edge. If so,it's not like lifetime appointed judges and college professors,so why the life & death concerns?

[moxie]

Exactly. I care very much more about appellate & Supreme Court judges than I do Bolton, who would likely be there only a few years anyway, just until the next administration.

IMHO, all the manuevering by the Democrats (and some Republicans) isn't really that much about Bolton (and/or the handful of filibustered appellate nominees). It's a show of political gamesmanship, so that when it comes time for Bush to select one or more Supreme Court nominees, those choices might be more moderate than they would have been if the Democrats hadn't had these few small successes.

[kwanfanatic2002]

Md2be, I do not mean any disrespect, but please do not even go there with me. I have been bashed badly on this site. I don't want to hear it. It is ridiclous how mr pru and the others from the left have acted on this side.If Pres. Bush and others are so horrible and they hate him so much, they can go back to their side. They are only here to cause trouble, which is what they have been doing.THey could not be more wrong about Bush. He is a good man and is doing a great job. Just go back and reread previous posts. It is ridiculous how they are trying to hijack this right leaning side with their liberal garbage.

[3axel]

The agreement didn't cover Bolton, nor would the Nuclear option, which is about judges, have affected Bolton's chances. Nor is Bolton being denied a vote, the Dems just want that info that Bush is hiding to be released. Its a last effort to find something that will sink him. If the info comes out and there isn't any bombshell in it, then many of the Dems will vote to confirm Bolton, giving him the benefit of the doubt. Its a only short term appointment, and if there aren't enough Reps opposed to it, then the moderate Dems will let the President have his pick.
I am a moderate Rep and I would have preferred Powell, who would be great at the UN.

[moxie]

I am a moderate Dem and also would prefer Powell ... as President. :angel

KF, for the zillionth time, there are no "sides" here; people are free to post in any thread. And I, for one, have never posted anything that says I "hate" Bush, though it's obvious that I do disagree with many of his policies. Mostly, I post here when I think I can correct errors of fact; it's my job in the "real world" to read many news sources every day, so I have access to information from many points of view.

This particular thread was started by an individual poster (with the same status as you or me) who labled it as being for right-leaners. It wasn't started that way by a moderator.

It would be like I (and not a moderator) started a thread that was titled: For Hillary Fans Only. Would you want someone to tell you not to post your alternate opinions in that thread?

[mr pru]

Well Md2be-Now you understand what we have to deal with.You offer FACTS and very sage advice, only to be ridiculed.

Sorry to inform you-again-KF, but I am not from the "left". I am perfectly capable of understanding and appreciating issues from both sides of the political spectrum.
Not all Repubs are evil.
Not all Dems are evil.

I do not hate George Bush.

Hate is a VERY strong word.

Disagreeing with one's policies and "reasoning" to send American soldiers to their deaths, does not equate to hate.

I do not believe Bush is a horrible person.

I just don't believe he is qualified to be the leader of the most powerful and influential government on this planet.

Truly sorry if you believe stating FACTS is causing trouble. It only seems to cause trouble for you, because you very obviously can't handle the truth-if that truth points out bad decision making by Georgie and his two faced cronies.

Moxie is correct. This is an open forum. You can't honestly tell us that you wouldn't respond negatively to a positive thread about any Democrat and Mrs. Clinton in particular.

If you can't discuss things rationally and without spewing out emotional rantings, it would be a good idea to ignore posts you can't handle.

[kwanfanatic2002]

pru, your post proves my point. You cannot handle the truth. calling Bush names along with his "cronies". I have no problem with the truth. Reps are in power. what else matters. They will continue to be in power until you and your "cronies" get a clue.

[kwanfanatic2002]

Mr. Pru, you have proved my point exactly. Calling Bush and his "cronies" names is childish, immature and proves you cannot handle the point that he won TWICE.That is the only truth I care about now. Pres. Bush is doing a great job. Calling him names, along with his admins. is bashing. You are the one who cannot handle the facts. THe Republicans are in power and will continue to be in pwoer.

[mr pru]

On the contrary-Your post proves my point.

Referring to someone's associates as "cronies" is long standing in the English language.

Then again-that is something you have extreme trouble with.

I doubt you understand the meaning of the word.

I congratulate Mr Bush for winning two elections. I also congratulate the other Presidents to do so, including Mr. Clinton.

I don't believe I called Mr. Bush any names in my post.

I am aware of the FACTS concerning decisions in the Bush administration. These very FACTS are the same ones you cannot bear to be brought to the public's attention-so you try your best to ignore them, pretend they don't exist and react in very childish manner when someone brings them up.

They are FACTS of public record.

The FACT they are true frustrates you to the point that you have to get emotional and rant on and on. You cannot dispute them, only say Bush is doing a good job, he is a great man and so on.

You present NOTHING to back up your emotional bantering.

Politics are cyclical. If you sincerely believe the Repubs will continue to be in power, your knowledge of the history of the United States political system is far, far less than your already limited views-which you continue to prove with each post.

You really couldn't stay out of a Mrs. Clinton positive leaning thread, now could you?!!?

[manskater]

FACT --- Bush was "selected" by the Supreme Court in the first election not elected.:rolleyes

[kwanfanatic2002]

You calling Bush, Georgie etc, is bashing. I have no problem with the facts. He is doing a good job. The economy is better, people are going back to work. The war is going well. Despite what the left chooses to believe. I could go on and on with FACTS about what Bush is doing right.
ALso, manskater, BUSH WAS ELECTED. GET OVER IT. HE WAS ELECTED TWICE. I know it is hard for you all to believe. This is so old and tired. Get over it.

I say just give all the nominees a vote, either up or down and get on with the other issues facing this country. If they want to vote Bolton down, do it and get a replacement. ALong with the pending judges votes. This have gone on for too long. How about just voting and getting on with it.

Here is a good Memorial Day Poem, called The Freedom Tree.
the freedom tree (http://bennettmornings.com)

[elliebea]

I could go on and on with FACTS about what Bush is doing right.

When are you planning to start?

[madison]

elliebea,
How about NOW?

<a href="http://www.truthandhope.org/bad_movie.mov" target="_new">www.truthandhope.org/bad_movie.mov</a>

[EigthAv]

I watched a television news-magazine documentary wherein a man was exposed for having participated in sex with minors in foreign countries.During the show,I learned that it was the Bush Administration that had pushed for laws to make it possible to prosecute people who go to foreign countries to do sex with minors.Does this qualify as doing something right? People are being killed everyday on interstate highways,in neighborhoods and sometimes in their workplaces.Perhaps we should consider withdrawing all Americans from these dangerous places.I don't understand why President Bush would allow Americans access to roads where he knows they are going to encounter 2000+ pound torpedoes traveling in excess of 70 mph and coming from all directions.Irresponsible.The maximum speed limit should be 35 mph.On average,one child dies daily in the USA at the hands of their parents.The Supreme Court should ban parenthood.Most people who die were milk drinkers...........yuck! Put it on the controlled substance list.

[mr pru]

Elliebea-You took the words right out of my mouth.

KF-This is bashing:

George Bush is a lying, treacherous, conniving idiot.

I have yet to stoop to that level, unlike yourself.

Georgie Porgie is a character in a story in American literature,
folklore, or however you wish to phrase it.

Whose policies destroyed the economy in the first place? The economy was in a very robust shape, and there was a HUGE surplus when GB took office. His policies put people out of the workplace to begin with. Things couldn't have gotten much worse-so naturally they had to get a little better.

This administration has re-designated fast food jobs from the service industry to the manufacturing side in order to give the appearance of rising numbers in manufacturing jobs.
They say fast food workers are "manufacturing" products for the American people. A classic example of their illogical rationing.

Georgie was not elected by a majority vote of the American people in his first run at the Presidency. He was awarded a state's electoral votes whose vote count, voting rolls and procedures was HIGHLY disputed.

Oh yeah-that's right-his brother was Governor of that state.

Please, please-go on and on about ALL the things Georgie has done right. It should take less than a minute or so IMO.

Again-your post was nothing but an emotional rant. George is great, George is doing a good job, get over it, etc...

How about the question about a Mrs. Clinton thread? You know you couldn't stay out of it-but you don't have the character to admit it.

[manskater]

KF - your old answer of "get over it" and yelling is tired.:rolleyes Just because you believe the Supreme Court should "choose" the president does not mean everyone else believes it. The first Bush takeover was so rigged it was sickening and when this White House talks about spreading democracy throughout the world that is laughable. It should look in its own backyard.

[kwanfanatic2002]

I PITY all of you. It must really hurt to be a LIB. Just because your guy LOST. You are not worth responding to.I know the truth hurts, but this is disgusting.

Mike, why don't you ban libs as well

[mr pru]

Once again-for at least the tenth time...

No FACTS-just emotional gibberish.

We are not worth responding to, yet you respond.

Next you'll be telling me you don't even read my posts.

Oops!!-That's right-we've already been over that misconception.

You're right-the truth does hurt-it hurts you. I'm perfectly fine with it.

[EigthAv]

The economy was in a very robust shape, and there was a HUGE surplus when GB took office.
<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->According to the doctored books.Like most modern Presidents and Congresses,money was taken from the SS stockpile and for a moment,the budget appeared to be balanced.If you feel guilty..........not paying enough tax????.......... I think Uncle Sam takes donations.:) Between local,state and fed/ss,I am paying about a quarter of my income to taxes of some sort or another.I'm in the under 20,000 dollar a year category.Think a person can't live on a low income like this.....:lol ....... you don't.It's called survival.I suspect the #1 cause of the deficit is tax cheating.#2 is pork and I mean the pork that starts with the lavish Congressional lifestyle we all pay for.Well paid staffs,on top of the lucrative salaries and fringe benefit packages.I admire Governor Schwarzenegger who refuses to accept his salary.I watched Clinton rail Bush for the so-called tax cut.If Clinton feels guilty???? Donate. <!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->A Laurel & Hardees welcome to Mr.Pru,Moxie,Motherlode and all comers from the so-called left! KwanFanatic,I tip my hat to you!:hat Have you ever considered a career as a pro campaign player? You can draw the players from "the other side". The longer they stick around,the more they will realize they are in the right place. I know that as I slowly moved from left to right over the years,I started out arguing with the so-called right wingers and ended up one of them.:lol Similar to how I became an avid fs fan.<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->Here are some more of my liberal views..........this is cool....8) ..............Boys should be totally controlled until they are at least 50 years olde.Take a lesson from the bees and the ants ladies and stop the insanity! 90% of the trouble and the waste comes from males free to wreak havoc on our own species....... ......... Stop abusing our green and yellow buddies!!!!!! Our friends in the Veggie World deserve better! They give us oxygen! They give us food! They don't crap on our lawns or our motor vehicles! They don't disturb our neighbours by barking and/or howling! Can your dog say this? ........... Stop snatching kids and stop abusing kids before I find your sorry butt and put my foot so deep in it you'll need a surgeon to remove it!!! John Kerry,John Edwards,KwanFanatic,Tarzan,Jane and I will find you and kill you if you don't stop!!!! Radical,eh?

[mr pru]

8th-

I truly enjoy your posts.

You speak of facts.
You bring up valid points to debate.
Your posts are not full of emotional baggage.

Your sense of humor is one of a kind.
Your sense of humor is greatly appreciated.

As far as staying on the "right" side-
Don't hold your breath.
Don't think it'll happen in this lifetime.:b

[moxie]

A Laurel & Hardees welcome to Mr.Pru,Moxie,Motherlode and all comers from the so-called left!

Thanks for the welcome, but I actually consider myself a moderate, because I have views from all over the spectrum.
But I guess anything that isn't 100% right-leaning is considered "left" these days. :lol

[kwanfanatic2002]

Mike, thanks for that, but I went to college too long and have 2 really great fulfilling careers. I don't want anything to do with the left now. It's bad enough I used to have work with some of them. They were not well thought of either.
My husband thinks it's funny that you are trying to change my career. We are still paying for what I do now. I quit working when my daughter became ill and now I want to go back to work, but he wants me to stay home at least until summer is over. I don't have a problem with that, but I feel better when I am making money too and contributing to the household. Besides he is spending us into the poor house.
The suggestions you have offered might be necessary if he doesn't stop it.

I don't think donations are something that is the vocabulary of Bill and Hillary. I remember reading something about what they donated to charity while in office and it was pitiful. Same with Kerry. With all of his millions, he and Theresa did not donate much money.
I like what you said about SS. I pay a lot too (when I work) and it ticks me off a lot. I work very hard in my career for my salary. I don't want to give it to the govt.
You made the right decision about coming over to the "right". That's because the "right" is RIGHT. the left is wrong.
Welcome to the RIGHT SIDE. I always enjoy reading what you post. I got your pm, thanks,. I'll respond to ya. ok.

VP Cheney and Mrs Cheney were on tv Monday night (I think it was Larry King they were on) and they were talking about 2008 and the candidates. Mrs Cheney suggested Laura bush run against Hillary. Dick Cheney said that Laura would beat Hillary. I would like for that to happen, but I don't think it would. Laura is clearly the better person, but too motherly and I don't think she has what it takes to be President. I cannot see it anyway. She makes a very good first lady though. SHe is a classy lady, very intelligent, graceful, and funny. I like the way she is speaking out more now. SHe should do that more aften.

There is a book coming out soon about Bill Clinton and it is not flattering about him and Hillary and how they acted in the WH. It sounds like it is a true vision of how they really are. phony.
Swearing, Steaming, Screaming in the WH as a Hot House, new Washington Post book (http://drudgereport.com)

[EigthAv]

KF,start with County Commissioner. Then work your way up to Mayor. After that,Congress is possible. Don't go for City Council.You'll get the wimp label for life and never progress beyond Mayor if you do. You have my vote! <!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--> I'm getting an error page every time I try to access the Clinton's Book thread. Do-weeeeeeeeeeee-oooooo.... and in the wake of the Nixon rat finally coming forward after all these years.Spooky.:eek

[moxie]

The Clinton Book thread was started by me, in response to KF's post here; I kept getting a error page when trying to post here, but perhaps that has been fixed now. The one response might have been from KF.

Trying to reconstruct what I said ...
It was bascially that KF always says she doesn't like or trust the media (even though the media also includes Ann Coulter, Bill O'Reilly, Rush, FoxNews, etc., etc.), and yet is quite willing to accept and tout books that she hears will be negative about the Clintons, even though they are by writers from the media she despises: the Hillary one is connected to the New York Times & the White House one to the Washington Post. (Not to mention the fact that neither book is out yet & all of her comments are based on rumors and spin by the same media she doesn't trust; why is this media suddenly trustworthy now?)

Is it actually true, then, that she likes and trusts the media when they write something that supports her positions, and only dislikes and distrusts the media when they write something that is at odds with her positions?

[kwanfanatic2002]

Moxie, THis is based on spin and lies???. I doubt it. The book was written by a DEMOCRAT> he had ample access to both Bill and Hillary. Just because it's about the Clintons and you work in the media, it's spin and lies. WRONG. Just look at the polls about the media, and how the old media is DYING. They are not trusted and believed. How could anyone believe any of them. I do have some questions about the book, BUT, it's not it it was written by Kitty Kelly or someone with no access to the CLinton. It adds some crediblity because of his access and his being a liberal. The MSM is on its way out and is being replaced by the new Media .
I know it's hard to hear such things about the Clintons, but facts are facts.

Howard Dean is having trouble raising money and the dems are not happy with his performance as head of the DNC so far. He is being outnumbered by the RNC. He is mroe interested in trashing the Republicans than he is at raising money.
Washington Outlook. Howard Dean Raised Voice Isn't Raising Money (http://drudgereport.com)

Howard Dean opened his mouth again and lied as usual, calling the GOP "Dark and Dishonest". He needs to take a look in a mirror and at his own party.Get a clue Howie.
RNC Ntl Comm. Spokeswoman Tracey Schmitt , said "Dean's Priority is to generate mudslinging headlines rather than engage in sustantive debate.". That really sums it up.
Dean GOP Vision "Dark and Dishonest". (http://newsmax.com)

I heard that Nancy Pelosi's daughter is against her mother. SHe is a Repulbican and does not support her mother in any of her views and actions. smart lady!!!!!.

[EigthAv]

So the book is actually about ...... ta da dum da daaaaah..... KwanFanatic? Weird! Then why is it called "Clinton Book"?

[kwanfanatic2002]

Mike, it's about Clinton and his years in the WH,his relationship with Hillary and his adminstration. It is not very flattering of Bill and Hillary, according to the reviews so far.
THe link I posted has some quotes from the author that are embarrasing. IIRC, he said he thought of giving a medal of honor to Sally Quinn's husband just for having to sleep with her.!! Hillary says something to the effect that Kennedy had real men in his admins, not wimps or he was the wimp, one o the other.Not very flattering for an ex POTUS. The book is called "survivor",I think. Apparently the author works for the Washington Post and had access to Billary quite freely.

[kwanfanatic2002]

I just came across this blog about Chief Justice Rehnquist.

Confirm them( blog) reports that an "extremely reliable source"
called to say that Chief Justice Rehnquist will retire within the next month. Confirm them predicts that judge Michael MCConnell will be the administrations choice to replace Rehnquist as Chief Justice.
Rehnquist to Retire (http://powerlineblog.com)

I thought either Scialia or Thomas were shoo ins for the job.
This will be interesting to watch it unfold.

[moxie]

Moxie, THis is based on spin and lies???. I doubt it. The book was written by a DEMOCRAT> he had ample access to both Bill and Hillary. Just because it's about the Clintons and you work in the media, it's spin and lies. WRONG.

KF, please re-read what I wrote more carefully:
1. I did not use the word "lies" anywhere.
2. I didn't say the Clinton books were based on spin and lies; I said YOUR OPINIONS of the books were based on "rumors and spin," because you haven't actually read either one for yourself. You are relying on pre-publication reports and/or reviews -- all secondhand information, from others.
3. I offered no opinions on the Clinton books; after all, I haven't read even one page of either one. However, the writers are respected and have done good work in the past, so there's a good chance that what they've written is true. (Yes, it is possible to like some aspects of the Clintons & still acknowledge that they sometimes have acted rather poorly.)

4. You entirely missed the point I was trying to make, which was proved again by this segment of your response to me:

Just look at the polls about the media, and how the old media is DYING. They are not trusted and believed. How could anyone believe any of them ... I know it's hard to hear such things about the Clintons, but facts are facts.


On the one hand, you say that the MSM people who wrote the Clinton books "are not trusted and believed." But in the very same paragraph you used the term "facts are facts" to describe books written by the very people you said "are not trusted and believed."

Can't you see how illogical and nonsensical this is?
Why would you trust these particular books, when you would never trust anything else you read by a New York Times or Washington Post reporter?

[moxie]

So the book is actually about ...... ta da dum da daaaaah..... KwanFanatic? Weird! Then why is it called "Clinton Book"?

Very simple: I was responding to a KF post about the Clinton book.

[kwanfanatic2002]

Moxie, I was only saying that the author had so much access to the Clintons, so I think he is more credible. I think what he says in the book is a little more reliable since he saw some of it first hand. Maybe he is wrong though and this is spin. You are right, I should wait to see to what he writes. I read another review on another site that was written by a NY Times reporter that sounded completely different.

Eighta ave, You are right about this "deep throat guy", it is kind of spooky. I haven't paid attention to it because I wasn't here then but he does not sound very credible, from little that I have heard about the case.

[kwanfanatic2002]

Dean has once again opened his mouth and lied and bashed the Republicans big time. I would like him to tell me to my face what he said this time.

During a speech he was giving, he said Republicans have "never earned an honest living". OP PUUHHHHLLLLEASZe, do you even know what an honest living is?It's funny that he talks about an honest living,when the most loyal supporters of the Democratic party are welfare recipients.Do they earn an honest living???? NO, THEY DON"T.You need to check your facts, Howie. I am more proud everyday to be a Republican. I would be ashamed to be a member of a party that is lead by someone like him. He has no shame and no class. He is a pathetic lying sore loser.
I was raised to get a good education, get a good job and work hard. I work hard and I have a strong work ethic. My husband and my family all do as well. Even members of his own party sid he should not have said that. He has done this before. He is only hurting his party.
Dean defending his comments on Republicans (http://apnational.com)

Neil Boortz has written a very good article about the dems plans for the future. It is a good read, but very long. It makes me grateful to be a Republican. With the dems secret plans and Dean spewing his lies, I don't think 06 will be a problem for Repbls. I am going to work hard again in my area to make sure the Repbls stay in control.
The Democrats secret plan for America (http://boortz.com)

Moxie, What did you do at work to have to do a book review on Kitty Kelly??. That sounds like punishment!!!!!!!!.

[ladybugs]

Hi! I haven't been to this site since May, but I must've missed a lot of discussion. I haven't been watching too much T.V. lately. I try to catch Sean Hannity on TV. I know he is having a Freedom Concert and I would love to see him in person. He is right on and speaks/thinks the way I do. He is intelligent and very quick and witty.

But don't you dems see the difference? Sean comes out with facts and discusses/debates the facts. He challenges the opponent's view. But, he does not go out to bash the opponent. He gives them freedom to speak their mind, but the dems/liberals get worried and have to say demeaning, offensive things to put the Rupublicans down. It is like all they have in their armor is, "bash, bash, bash, hammer, hammer, hammer" and hope that we sink. This is a cheap shot. If they had some logic, facts and a PLAN, they wouldn't feel the "drive" to bash us.

I am glad Laura Ingraham is feeling better, as well as Tony Snow. I did not realize Tony was ill also. I've watched him too. I also like to listen to what Charles Krauthammer has to say as well as William F. Buckley. We need more intelligence like them.:SAL

[mr pru]

KF-

I see where you're going to make Nationals.

Are you planning to attend the luncheon that will undoubtedly be held before the event?

Maybe we'll meet up and see that we're not too much different from each other after all.:lol

[kwanfanatic2002]

Mr Pru, I forgot to answer you about the luncheon. I did not know anything about it. I would like to. Is it scheduled yet? I don't know what I am going to do yet. I guess there will be a thread about it, huh. Who all is going to Nats. I would really like to meet other Michelle fans that care about her like everyone here does and understands why we feel that way.

[moxie]

"During a speech he was giving, he said Republicans have "never earned an honest living". OP PUUHHHHLLLLEASZe, do you even know what an honest living is?It's funny that he talks about an honest living,when the most loyal supporters of the Democratic party are welfare recipients.Do they earn an honest living????"

KF, Howard Dean actually said "some" Republicans would fit in that category; he didn't say ALL Republicans.

But I agree, it was a rather odd statement that basically perpetuates a stereotype that many Republicans are very rich people who inherited their wealth and have never had to work in a traditional 40-hour-a-week job. The phrase "make an honest living" usually refers to working hard at a traditional job; it doesn't mean that those who don't are dishonest.

KF, I do find it apalling that you responded to Dean's rather clueless statement with an equally clueless assumption of your own: That "the most loyal supporters of the Democratic party are welfare recipients."

Just what in the heck are you basing this on?
Yes, SOME people who vote Democratic are on welfare (as are some Republicans). But by what measure would you classify this group of people as "the most loyal supporters"? Those who are "most loyal" are the ones running for office and working on campaigns. These are active, community-minded people who work hard & pay taxes.

But i guess if they are now receiving a Social Security check (after all those years of "making an honest living"), or their children are receiving financial aid for college, etc. etc., you could write them off as being "welfare recipients."

[kwanfanatic2002]

One more comment about Dean. His own party doesn't even stand by his comments. Joseph Biden has said

He doesn't speak for me with that kind of rheotoric and I don't think he speaks for the majority of Democrats, Biden, the top Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Comm. said Sunday on ABCs "This week".

John Edwards has also said that "Dean is not the spokesman for our party".

[moxie]

That's correct. Howard Dean is not the spokesman of the Democrats and he's not the leader of the Democrats. He does not speak for all Democrats, as Biden and Edwards have rightly pointed out.

Dean is chairman of the Democratic Party. His primary jobs are overseeing fundraising and encouraging organization at the state level.

It is not his job to set policy for the party or to speak of the party's stance on issues. Though, of course, he has the same right as anyone in this country to comment on such things.

[EigthAv]

I've tried this earlier today,but my post obviously didn't stick. If the demos want to make a big mojo turn in the 2006 elections,they should go ahead and replace Dean.So far,he is turning out to be one of the best players on team repo.:eek I'd also replace Delay with someone who doesn't need to pay his/her spouse a 6 digit+ income to work his/or her campaign.Someone from Alabaihma.:D

[ladybugs]

EighthAve and Kwanfanatic, it was great to read some of your posts and I agree with you. I am a Republican. I never actually understood politics and what the difference was between Democrats and Republicans. I attribute a lot of when I first began understanding it to 1) my mom and 2) President Ronald Reagan. When Regean felt he had to join politics he did our whole country a service and debt of gratitude we can never forget. He first joined the Screen Actor's Guild for one reason: he saw communism spreading in Hollywood (propaganda, black listing, movies). So he got involved. This is the problem I see with a lot of liberals/democrats (not all democrats - there was a time in Kennedy's era that they were more moderate - they have since gone waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay left). They don't understand what communism is. Communism is when the gov't tells you/the people what to do, what job you must or can have/ what shows to go to, where you can go, etc. They control you and that is scary. It is not a breeding ground for peace/freedom which extends to neighbors (countries). It is not a good example. This is what Ronald Reagan saw and saw a great opportunity/great timing with Gorbechev and they worked together along with Pope John Paul II to demolish the spread of communisim. This is what a lot of wars are about. It is like a cancer.

I don't think some of our liberals/dems see it this way. I think they are blindsighted by the 60s and all that ranting and raving of what freedom really is about. It is not so we can run around and do as we please. We do things with our laws to a degree. It does not mean to have drugs, violence and sexual promiscuity all over the place. By the way, we do not get tortured or have our heads decapitated for this.

Our democracy stands for so much more than what communisim is. To understand what President Bush is doing is to know fully the differences and the meanings of freedom vs. communisim.

I think this is what 8th Ave. and Kwanfanactic believe and I have to say I agree with you. :SC :)

[mr pru]

To each-his own.

Opinions are one thing.

FACTS are completely another.

[moxie]

"This is the problem I see with a lot of liberals/democrats (not all democrats - there was a time in Kennedy's era that they were more moderate - they have since gone waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay left)."

Were you even living during Kennedy's era? And/or have you actually studied it? Probably not, because if you had, you would know that by current standards of what is "liberal" and "moderate," the Democrats of the 1960s as a group were far more liberal (at least on social, civil and economic issues) than Democrats of today. No self-respecting Democrat of the Kennedy era would have voted to allow the new bankruptcy law (which doesn't allow exceptions even for Iraq war veterans and those whose bankruptcies are due to serious medical emergencies), cut college aid to students, allow banks to gouge customers with fees, etc., etc., etc. Many "moderate" Democrats of today would have been considered conservative back then.

"They don't understand what communism is. Communism is when the gov't tells you/the people what to do ... where you can go, etc. They control you and that is scary."

Yes, much like some aspects of the Patriot Act, in which American citizens can be arrested and held for years without being allowed to see a lawyer.

[kwanfanatic2002]

Mr Pru, ladbugs was 100%. you are free to believe whatever you want. facts are facts. she is right.

I agree with you 100% ladybugs. I will always believe that.
The left has gone so far to the left now, it is hard to even belive they are the same party. I would not vote for anyone from the far left now. I would rather just not vote.

Moxie, Dean is the head of the DNC, he does speak for the left. He needs to keep his mouth shut. Alll he is doing is helping the Republicans. So I guess, in that case, keep talking Howie. Thanks for the help. I have read and heard on tv that he is not long for the DNC head job though. he is not raising enough money for the party and previous high dollar donors are not donating to the party anymore.
To be fair though, the Repbs are threating to withold money now from their own party as well because of the filibuster issue and the Repbs that went along w/ the dems. I have read a lot of reports from people who are not donating because of the 7 who are not sticking with the party.

[mr pru]

FACTS are FACTS.

They cannot be changed by opinions.

Opinions are just that-opinions, one person's point of view about a subject.

Just because one has an opinion about a subject or person, it does in no way mean it is a FACT.

I have presented numerous FACTS about the Bush administration's policies and decisions.

They were not my opinion-they were FACTS.

All you've offered in rebuttal to my FACTS is opinion.

I'm quite sure you wouldn't care to hear my opinion on this administration.

You can't handle the FACTS. Lord only knows how you would react to my opinions.

[kwanfanatic2002]

You are the one who cannot handle the facts of this admins.
I am not interested in your opinions. I have heard enough of the liberal left and their so called "facts" to last a lifetime.

You cannot handle the truth. But believe what you have to believe in order to survice. Bush is doing a great job and I support him all the way.

I can think of much better ways to waste my time than trying to debate with anyone from the left. I have better more important things to do...

[mr pru]

Nothing new.

Just useless emotional banter.

I can handle the FACTS of this administration.
I can also present some of them for public consideration-which I have on numerous occasions.

FACTS are FACTS whether they are presented by Republicans, Democrats or Independents.

One's party affiliation has nothing to do with presenting FACTS.

You have no valid recourse to the FACTS presented, so you call it a waste of time to even discuss them.

Your narrow-mindedness is staggering-bordering on the ridiculous.

I'm truly sorry you can't see the blatant arrogance and disregard for normal moral values that Georgie and his cronies display on a daily basis.

God himself could present these same FACTS to you-and your immature response would likely be the same.

I truly feel sorry for you.

[moxie]

"Moxie, Dean is the head of the DNC, he does speak for the left. He needs to keep his mouth shut. Alll he is doing is helping the Republicans."

Dean is not the party spokesman or head. (And the term "the left" is not synonymous with the Democratic party.) Dean is organizational chairman of the Democratic party, which includes people whose views are left, right and center. He is considered "too left" by some people, "not left enough" by others. As many other Democrats have pointed out, he speaks only for himself and not for them. In my opinion, the nice thing about the Democratic party is that there is not one, monolithic view that must be held by all. There are a variety of positions and viewpoints to consider.

KF, since you seem so interested in the Democratic Party, who do you think would make a better DNC chairman that Dean? Any suggstions on a more suitable leader?

[kwanfanatic2002]

Pru, grow up. You cannot handle that Kerry LOST, so your bantering is meaningless. You are going to believe anything to suit your democratic ideas. Bush is doing a vey good job, I belive in him and trust and support him. I could not care any less about the left. i think they are a bunch of sore losers and liars and cry babies.

Dean is supposed to be the one leading the democratic party, but instead of raising money and uniting the party and helping it to grow, he is toooo bush bashing Republicans. The let have no plans to make America better. There only plan is to bash Bush and his adminstration.

Ladybugs, you are right. This is a great country. It's too bad that some of the people living in it cannot see how great it is and how good they have it.

I dont know what the answer is for the borders. The borders are too expansive. I wonder if there even is an answer and if it is doable. I don't want anymore terrorists over here. It is scary that there is a terrorists cell in California.

DId you see that Condi Rice played at the Kennedy Center last nite. She played at a concert that was performed by a young lady with a potentially life threating illness. She was not announced as a performer, so it was a complete surprise to the audience. I wonder if that performance is available on the internet. I would like to hear it. I would also like to see her skate sometime.

[mr pru]

Why can't you say anything except the same old drivel?

Can't handle the fact that Kerry lost, believe what I want and on and on.

Once again-absolutely nothing of substance.

Your spelling and grammatical errors continue, to boot.

I'm not stating things I believe-they would be opinions.

I've been stating FACTS. It has nothing to do with what I believe or how I feel. These are FACTS of public record. They would be true even if I were never born.

Why can't you look at it objectively-and open up that narrow mind of yours?

[manskater]

Oh Mr pru and moxie -- you both have the patience of a saint.

[tongueincheek]

Speaking as a plain ole American, neither Republican nor Democrat, neither left nor right, just middle of the road American patriot, I just have to say......Kwanfanatic2002, I would NEVER choose you as a member of my debate team. We'd be laughed off the podium.

Debate - a discussion in which reasons are advanced for and against some proposition, proposal or position.

Reason - An underlying fact or cause that provides logical sense for a premise or occurrence

[kwanfanatic2002]

Pru, Grow up. I am not going to waste my time with a liberal. You are so determined you are right and nothing is going to change your mind. I have been down this road, I know better than to even try and reason w/ a lib. YOu choose to believe what you believe, it is WRONG.
I belive the truth.
Tongue and cheek, I am not interested in debating a liberal. YOu cannot reason with him

[tongueincheek]

Tongue and cheek, I am not interested in debating a liberal. YOu cannot reason with him Actually, the phrase is tongue-IN-cheek (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=tongue-in-cheek).

And the reason I posted what I did is to point out to you that you are NOT debating. You aren't objectively presenting any facts to support your case. That's why I would never choose you to be on my debate team. I might agree with you all day long, but I still would never choose you as a debate partner, because, based on your posts so far, you aren't capable of debate or open discussion.

[kwanfanatic2002]

I am not ignorant and close minded. keep your insults to yourself. I have tried in the past to debate, but it fruitless.Just read some of the comments from ladybugs, it is impossible. I think you need to be saying to Mr. Pru and Moxie and others, not to me. I am perfectly able to debate and discuss, with someone who has an open mind and is willing to hear another side. I have read enough to know this is not going to happen.

This article is a good example of why I don't want the current
Canadian healthcare system here. We need some serious help with our healthcare system here in America, but we don't need this. We still have the best healthcare system in the world.

Lets hope Hillary and Ted Kennedy were sitting down when they heard the news Thursday that in effect, Canada's vaunted public health care system produces "intolerable inequality".

"Access to a waiting list is not access to healthcare", wrote Chief Justice Beverly MCLachlin for the court last week.
Canadians wait an average of 17.9 wks for surgery and other therapeutic treatments, according to the Vancouver-based Fraser institute. THe waits would be even longer if Canadians didn't have access to the US as a medical care safety valve.


The ruling does stop short of declaring the national health care system unconstitutional only 3 of the 7 judges wanted to go all the way.

But it does say in effect: deliver better care or permit the development of a private system."The prohibition on obtaining private health insurance might be constitutional where health care services are reasonable as to both quality and timeliness," the ruling reads, but it "is not constitutional where the public system fails to deliver reasonable services".

The larger lessone here is that health care isn't immune from the laws of economics. Politicians can't wave a hand and provide equal coverage for all merely by declaring medical care to be a "right", in the word that is popular on the American left.

There are only 2 ways to allocate any good or service" through prices, as is done in a market economy, or lines
dictated by govt, as in Canada's system. The Socialist claim is a that single payer sustem is more equal than one based on prices, but last weeks court decision reveals that as an illusion. Or, put it another way, Canadian health care is equal only in its share scarity.

WHen asked whether he was worried about being known as the man who helped bring down his countrys universal health care system, Mr. Zellotis told the Toronto Star, "No way, I'm the guy who is saving it". If the Canadian ruling can open the eyes to the limitations of govt run health care, Mr. Zellotis hip just might end up saving the US system too.
A landmark example exposes Canada's health care inequality (http://opinionjournal.com)

[tongueincheek]

I am not ignorant and close minded. keep your insults to yourself. Once again, you did not hear what I said. I never said you were ignorant or close minded, I said you come across that way. I wish you didn't. I'm sure you are a very fine person, you just don't know how to present yourself in a debate, and you could use some coaching when it comes to communication, specifically, listening and hearing. I wish you all the best.

I've read the posts of others on this forum. I may or may not agree with them, that's not the point. The others, specifically the ones you mentioned, have presented facts objectively. At times, Mr. Pru has lost his objectivity, and he was called to task for it by another poster. My impression of moxie is that moxie presents facts and invites others to present opposing views in an objective way. I agree with this method of discussion. I may not agree with moxie's position, but I do agree with moxie's concept of debate.

Again, I wish I could help you, but I fear that it's an exercise in futility. Best of luck to you.

[kwanfanatic2002]

I could not disagree with you more about Mr. pru. He does not discuss things objectively. I will agree to disagree with you here.

I see what you are saying. I will take it to heart and think about it. I don't necassarily agree with you, but I respect your opinion. Thanks for the kind words, I appreciate that.

[tongueincheek]

You really are missing the point. By a lot. I don't have the time to waste arguing or debating with someone...... Doesn't matter if you have the time or not. You, Kwanfanatic2002, are the world's worst debater. You don't debate, you rant. You don't seem to be able to hear what other people are saying, no matter what party they are a member of.

You don't help the Republican party at all, you hurt it, because you come across as ignorant and close-minded. I wish I could help you change that, but my attempts so far have been fruitless because you cannot even grasp what I am trying to tell you. I would like for you to come across as intelligent and well-informed, because the forum needs to hear all sides of every discussion. But communication involves listening and hearing as well as talking, and you don't seem to be able to hear.

Futile much?

[EigthAv]

KF,they have you outnumbered again. I'll get in here and see if I can help you beat back the rabble. <!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->I was alive when Kennedy was the President.In those days the Democratic Party in Alabama was acid-liberal.... as long you were a "manly" caucazation male and not sympathetic to other genders,races,or lifestyles.I tend to agree that the democratic party of the Kennedy and Johnson days was,in real terms,way more conservative than it's 21st Century grandchild.Next to the Demos of olde,the New Republicans seem like a buncha hippies.<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->Here's you a cool Kennedy quote,from the Kennedy/Nixon debate:<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->"We goota get Wahliss outa Alabaihma.......We gotta get Cahstro outa Cuebah". An assassin's bulletts and olde age finally made one of these objectives happen.Mr.Castro has survived 10 USA Presidents and is still the high potentate of Cuebah.The acid liberals killed Kennedy long before he could set me free.:( It wasn't Oswald and it certainly wasn't the cocakamaney Oliver Stone fantasy hit.It had to be a very radical hippie working with an acid redneck.

[moxie]

"My impression of moxie is that moxie presents facts and invites others to present opposing views in an objective way. I agree with this method of discussion. I may not agree with moxie's position, but I do agree with moxie's concept of debate."

Thank you, TnC, i do try ...

[moxie]

"I tend to agree that the democratic party of the Kennedy and Johnson days was,in real terms,way more conservative than it's 21st Century grandchild."

Not true of Northern Democrats of the '60s. But very possibly true of Southern Democrats of that era, many of whom switched to the Republican party by the time of Reagan's elections.

Today's Northern Democrats, as a group, are not as liberal as the Northern Democrats of the '60s.

[kwanfanatic2002]

Here is a good article that talks about the left and their inability to come up with plans for the future of America. This pretty much sums it up. says it all.

Recent national polling figures tell us support for the Republicans nationwide is dropping.

What is surprising, however is that not only are the Dems not beneiftting, from this apparent decline in GOP Popularity, but also their numbers are dropping as fast, if not faster.

This revelation becomes less of a mystery when you consider the Dem. party has yet to consistently articulate a coherent, compelling and concise philosophy on the role of GOVT in our lives. While the public may be displeased with the GOP's performance of late, they do not see a compelling alternative in the Democrats.

To be sure, the Democratic party and its reps weigh in on a whole host of policy issues. But ask a handful of Dems to articulate the party's philosophy on Govt or its vision for the future and you will get as many answers as people you speak to.

From the highest ranking party official in Washington DC, to the youngest campaign volunteer in rural America, Republicans consistently articulate a clear, concise and coherent philosophy on govt. The problem for Democrats lies not so much in the number of issue positions and pet programs, but in their lack of context or a conherent philosophy tying them together.

This lack of overarching narrative must appear to voters as though Dems are supporting certain programs to win votes; that there is no overarching philosophy or belief system underpinning their positions excpt the desire for more govt. programs to appease select constituencies.
Speakout: Democrats are tying only slipknots. (http://realclearpolitics.com)

[moxie]

When voting, I look at an individual candidate and what he/she offers as far as plans for the future and commendable actions in the past. Often (but not always) that candidate is a Democrat.

It does not concern me that there is not one single, monolithic philosophy to which everyone in the Democratic party must adhere. To me, that is one factor that makes the Democrats generally more attractive to me that the Republicans: they think for themselves, with more independence. They can take their own stand on issues without fear of being branded a "traitor to the party." That independence, apparently, is not valued by some in the Republican party. I offer as evidence the hostile reactions received by such free-thinking Republican senators as Hagel of Nebraska and McCain of Arizona whenever they say or do something that is not in strict alliance with Bush policy.

[Sparks]

Mr. Pru - try posting at the beginning of a thread and see if it makes a difference...darn ezboard!

[mr pru]

Did this work??

YESSSSS!!!!

Now-back to what I wanted to say yesterday.

I'm unable to discuss issues with KF because she chooses to ignore what I present.

What good does it do me to present new issues for discussion?

I accept ToungueNCheek's critique of losing my objectivity at times. It is a valid point.

My original intention was to discuss FACTS about the Bush administration's decisions and policies.

Instead, I was bombarded with childish comments such as grow up (numerous times) go away, those are my truths and on and on.

Never once was anything disputed-just emotional garbage thrown at me.

8th is perfectly willing to debate in a logical manner. I truly enjoy his posts.

There are plenty of other things I would like to bring up, but I feel it would be a complete waste of time.

I will continue to post-hopefully with proper objectivity-on issues brought up by others.

Thanks for the advice Sparks!! Hope to see you soon!!

[Sparks]

I have tried in the past to debate, but it fruitless.
The object of a debate is not to 'bear fruit', so to speak. It is an exchange of ideas supported by facts and documentation. So don't worry, I have never really seen you debate.

Regarding health care reform in the US. Reform and providing affordable health care for all Americans doesn't have to look like or BE like the Canadian system. It isn't an either/or type of situation. There are many ways this could be achieved, but Congress and the President will not address this vital issue. Wasn't it one of Bush's campaign promises to reform the current health care system?

[kwanfanatic2002]

Pru. once again, you are pathetic. Youare sonvinced bush is wrong and will not listen to any other viewpoint. Typical democrat

Sparks, I agree with you. I wish he would address the healthcare system. I grew up with the Canadian healthcare system and it is awful. There is a better way to achieve what we need. There isno excuse for someone having to wait 17 wks for surgery. Others have posted from here saying this is the kind of healthcare system they wanted.

[mr pru]

Does everyone see what I'm talking about now?

[Krista]

yes, and it gets old.

constant name calling, etc.

[kwanfanatic2002]

That you are incapable of change and seeing another viewpoint.??? What is it that you want me to say? I know Bush is not perfect, he has made mistakes, but overall, he is a good President. Much better than Kerry ever would have even thought of being.

Senator Dick Durbin, Ill.was giving a speech last evening and at the end of it went off topic (it was the economy) and started blasting the Republican party. His remarks were unconscionsable (sp?). He is way off base and today Americans are calling his office and being hung up on. He and his staff cannot even stand up and defend what he said. I am so grateful to be a Repb. and not have this "man " representing myself, my family and my state.

He described our interrogation pratices at Gitmo as akin to something that "happened by the Nazi's". "Soviets in their Gulags. or some madman regime like Pol Pot".

He is hideous and should resign for this, but no democrat is going to call him on it, or anyone from the media. If that had been a Republican, they would be calling for him to resign and apologize and probably be impeached for his comments. That is wrong and ludicrous and reprehensible. That is the democractic party for you today.
WHat about the men and women over there fighting for your freedom to spew poison like that. Those detainees are treated better and fed better than some Americans here.
They are there because they wanted to kill Americans. Would he rather us have more dead Americans. He is absurd and I hope he is made to apologize for his foolish comments.
Durbin compares US Interrogations to Pol Pot and Nazis (http://lauraingraham.com)

Polls indicate that the public is dissatisfied with the performance of both the Republican-led Congress and President Bush. But the ability of Dems to capitalize on it is being hampered by rampant Deanism.

"Deanism" the trademark behavior of Dem Ntl Comm Chairman Dean , is the tendency to attract publicity for name-calling attacks on repbs while offering almost no positive alternatives for governing.

Dean has been chided for various Demsfor over the top statements- that he hates Repbs, taht they're "evil" taht many don't work for a living, and that they;re the "White Christian party" but Deanish critiques are common among dems.

Sen. Reid has called Bush a "loser" and "liar". (in front of school kids no less- tacky!). He apologized for saying "loser:,but not for "liar".

Sen. Clinton has lapsed bacj into Deanland last week in NY, charging that " there has never been an admisn, I don't believe in our history more intent upon consolidating and abusing power to further their own agenda ( looks who's calling the kettke black- that is her m.o.)

By and large its the Dems who lose their rhetorical composure . Why.? at some level, I think it's because they reflect what Dems activits believe- that Repbls, Bush in the lead, really are evil, ill-motivated and dishonest.Repbls just think the Dems are wrong.

To the extent that Demd do have alternatives, no one knows about them because they spend so much time going negative, going over the top. If theres one thing that turns off independents and moderates, it's negative name calling, it may work in the thick of a campaign =, but Deanism is a turnoff for party building.
negative Deanism "Hurts Democrats" Rebound Prospects (http://realclearpolitics.com)

President Bush gave a speech last night at the President's Dinner. This is one of the better speeches I have heard in a while from him. Here are some of his comments.

All of us in Washington, hae a duty to the people who sent us here. Political parties can take one of two approaches. One approach is to lead , to focus on the people's business, to take on the tough problems. And that is exactly what our party is doing.

The other approach is to simply do nothing- to delay solutions, obstruct progress, refuse to take responsibility. Members of the other party have worked with us to achieve important reforms on some issues. Yet too often, their leadership prefers to block the ideas of others. On issue after issue, they stand for nothing except obstruction , and this is not leadership. It is the philosophy of the stopsign, the agenda of the roadblock, and our country and our children deserve better.


Politcal parties that choose path of obstruction will not gain the trust of the American people. If leaders of the other party have innovative ideas,lets hear them, BUT IF THEY HAVE NO IDEAS OR POLICIES EXCEPT OBSTRUCTION, THEY SHOLD STEP ASIDE AND LET OTHERS LEAD.

Were a party of getting things done.
Remarks by the President at the 2005 President's Dinner (http://gop.com)