Bush The Coward

[bjb22]

It takes courage to get involved in the saving of lives and ending tyranny and oppression. Clinton had Bosnia and Somolia....efforts to end genocide and ethnic cleansing.

What is Bush about? Catering to Israel and converting Iraq to yet another Arab oil junkie state....Saber rattling about North Korea and Iran's nuclear program yet doing nothing about it.

These are clearly from the pages of the Cold War playbook....

"Stop telling the same story"

"Tomorrow People"- Ziggy Marley

[dec5]

It takes courage to get involved in the saving of lives and ending tyranny and oppression. Clinton had Bosnia and Somolia....efforts to end genocide and ethnic cleansing.

No Clinton is the coward.....he pulled out of Somalia
after they dragged our brave troops in the streets.(Black Hawk Down). To this
day Al queda still have bases there.....

Clinton also did nothing when 800,000 Rowandans were slaughtered. Only after it was done the UN stepped in.....
another disaster.....

He instituted a dictator in Haiti, who continued to let his
people starve in poverty.

Bosnia is still in tatters and our troops are still stuck there
because if they leave, the genocide will start all over again.
Unlike Iraq with GW, Clinton did not have a plan to help the Bosnian Mulims re arm.......(Too busy with Monica.)

Plus Clinton dodged the draft....didn't even join the National
guard like GW, because Clinton loathes the military......


Clinton also ignored pleas to arrest Bin Ladin 3 times!

Did nothing about the USS Cole......

Bombed a Aspirin factory.....while covering up for Monica.

Help give the Communist Chinese advanced nuclear technology.( Who now want to us it against us if he
help Taiwan.)

Gave North Korea Nuclear technology......


Clinton is a total disaster......




What is Bush about? Catering to Israel and converting Iraq to yet another Arab oil junkie state....Saber rattling about North Korea and Iran's nuclear program yet doing nothing about it.

These are clearly from the pages of the Cold War playbook....


Hey we won the Cold war....... why use Clinton's hippie Vietnam playbook which abandons our friends and cost
2 million people their lives.....?

GW has a better plan....and it works......



Israel is a great ally of the US......we will support them no
matter what...nuff said......


North Korea and Iran are way more scared of GW than
Clinton.......Clinton was a joke.....and a useful fool for them......



There is a democracy in Iraq and Afghanistan....there can be no debate......it is a fact...... (Clinton's Haiti is a disaster.......)

We saw the pictures of the brave Iraqis voting.....deal with it.


GW is one of bravest Presidents the US had ever been blessed with.....

And he was a jet pilot too!!!! Heee hee!!!!!

[kwanluv]

North Korea and Iran are way more scared of GW than
Clinton.......Clinton was a joke.....and a useful fool for them......North Korea Nuclear weapons program was in check during the Clinton years, until Bush's regime, now they've become an unpredictable serious problem...same with Iran.
There is a democracy in Iraq and Afghanistan....there can be no debate......Also no debating there are many more terrorist cells in both countries now thanks to Bush, especially in Iraq, which is now full of them.
And he was a jet pilot too!!!! Heee hee!!!!And that's supposed to mean something? He was in the Texas Air National Guard....keeping the sky safe for oil hogs, not in Vietnam.

[dec5]

North Korea Nuclear weapons program was in check during the Clinton years, until Bush's regime, now they've become an unpredictable serious problem...same with Iran.

The Clinton policy trusted the North Koreans to use the
Nuclear technology for energy......they promised....Clinton,
and Albright believed them. The whole deal was
based on the lie that the North Koreans would only use it
for commerical use...... It is obvious they continued building
Nukes......

Albright was utterly wrong.........and ignored the pleas to
stop the transfer of nuclear technology to the North.

All GW wanted is the North Koreans to stop Nuke production....... The North were still working on their nukes
during the Clinton adminstration period....even though they
promised not to.....

GW wanted them to keep their promise.......and now has
6 nations at this momment, including the PRC to tell
North Korea to stop.


Also no debating there are many more terrorist cells in both countries now thanks to Bush, especially in Iraq, which is now full of them.

Yes!!!! They are there in Iraq and
are losing support, in spite of the efforts the cells there to
start a civil war between the factions there. And you will have to admit....they have not succeded here since 2001.
You have to give GW that.

The cells here continue to be silenced thanks to the Patriot
act and now the UK is starting their own...





And that's supposed to mean something? He was in the Texas Air National Guard....keeping the sky safe for oil hogs, not in Vietnam.


You have to remember in the 70's the Soviet Union was
expanding. Cuba did have Soviet hardware just a few
hours off the shores of the US southern coast........

GW was trained to defend the region facing Cuba. The
Soviets had a clear capability to send fighters or bombers
to any part of the southern hemisphere at that time.
They were planning to build bases in the Carribean and
South America where Communism was getting a foothold.


These where MiGs and Soviet nuclear subs.....a real threat
in the mid late 20 century.....thankfully a like minded GW like
President, Ronald Reagan saw to defeat the Soviet Union.
He proved the same hippie generation wrong.....and GW will do the same thing with his bashers as well IMO.

The US will prevail IMO.

[kwanluv]

We shall see how his foreign policy plays out...it's still too early to tell. History will be the ultimate judge. So far, it has not been well-received.

[dec5]

I agree, the future is murky....lets hope for the best
for everyone. Even though there are disagreements,
I think we all want the same thing. A safer world for
everyone.... I think we all can agree with this regardless
of politics.

[kwanluv]

yep. :)

[probativev]

I don't think either Clinton or Bush are cowards. They are a lot of things, but cowards doesn't fit.

There's a lot of political pressure to not put our troops in danger back in Clinton days. He wouldn't have had the public support to do anything bold militarily as he didn't have something drastic like 9/11 happening to change people's minds. He was just sticking to the then popular Powell doctrine.

[bjb22]

To be sure any military action is prone to mishaps and later hindsight criticism. Bosnia and Somolia were no picnic, obviously, and Rwanda was a horrific tragedy (watch the PBS documentry "The Ghosts of Rwanda" before seeing "Hotel Rwanda").

My observation is this; besides Iraq-Afghanistan where has Bush initiated his push for peace and democracy?

We have a Texas Oil Junkie in the White House, plain and simple.

[MKGrace]

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>We have a Texas Oil Junkie in the White House, plain and simple. <hr></blockquote> Pretty much. They don't call it "the Republic of Texas" for nothin'. <img border=0 src="http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/tongue.gif" />

[EigthAv]

If Bush is such a greedy *******,only interested in oil and profits,why bother with building schools in Iraq? Why waste time and money on helping them try to become a democratic nation? Why not simply surround the oil fields,get that black gold brewing and divert as much of it to the USA as possible? This could have all been done under the guise of good business with the Hussein administration.<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->Bush isn't personally financing and fostering terroists cells in Iraq or anywhere elso on the Planet.Stop making excuses for the murderers and start condemning them.

[bjb22]

And in regards to Gitmo Prison (GP) the President is giving new definition to the game "Texas Hold 'Em" (THE).

Yeah....The GP.

[Crizzy]

Does anyone know Iraq's neighbor? IRAN and many other middle eastern countries. That should tell you why we're there. US had a major base establish in Saudi during and after the war with Iraq with Bush Sr. called Northern Watch and Southern Watch. US was watching Iran and Iraq to make sure they play nice and we were paying the Saudis tons of money to keep a base there. Now, we are paying tons of money and lives to keep a base in Iraq and now we are watching the Iranians among other Middle eastern countries. Don't fool yourself, this is not just about oil because we are in good terms with the Saudi who has oil. US now have Iraq who has oil and Mike is right we could take those oil for the US. The Iraq oil isn't even enough to cover all the expenses taxpayers are shelling out.

The US will never leave Iraq anytime soon, we need a base in the middle east to launch nearby attack. Think why we had Pearl Harbor, Subic Base and Clark Base in the Philippines during WWII.... to watch Japan. Iraq is the Middle East Watch and that's all I'm saying for now. Not suppose to divulge info, they could be tapping my online and phone.8)

[EigthAv]

Crizzy,here-here!!! Outstanding post and I couldn't agree more! btw,any man willing to leave a perfectly cozy Head of State, force field protected dynamite seat at the Olympics to go sit by Sasha and talk to her mum on the phone ain't no coward! :eek I'm a'scared of Sasha.

[Davespectral]

Bush is not only a coward, he is a murdering thug-bum. He is part of the Bush crime family. If any of the Right wingers on this forum watched Frontline, you would know that he planed on going in to Iraq, long before he got in to office. (If elected) It had nothing to do with 9-11, "weapons of mass destruction", or what is the newest excuse?....oh yes freeing the Iraqi people. His lack of caring about foreign policy, before 9-11 is well known to modern high-school graduates. We have over 3,700 dead Americans, based on one lie after another. He should not only be impeached, but also charged with 3,700 counts of first degree murder. To look at this stupid, dry-drunk as anything else but what I said he was, is simply the opinion of the ill-informed.

Now, we are stuck in a situation which this dumbbell started, that we simply can not leave. Iraq would completely disintegrate, because of what Forest Gump has done, if we did that. We are going to lose thousands more of our beloved American troops because now we are forced to stick this nightmare out.
:)

[Puce]

well, i can't say that i am a bush supporter in the least. in fact, i think(in other words, IN MY OPINION) he's the worst president i have ever lived through... but i can't be a bad thing that saddam is no longer in power. he is/was a BAD PERSON. that may not have been the reason for bush sending troops into iraq, but i think it was a great result of the efforts. so bush should get credit for ridding iraq of him.

[madison]

BRAVO, Davespectral. I couldn't agree more!

[mr pru]

Davo-

Superb!!!

The raw truth you presented will not be well received-but who cares?!?!?

In most cases, the truth hurts someone.

Please post more often.

[manskater]

Dave- ITA and more and more Americans are seeing the lies.

[EigthAv]

I totally disagree.You must have not been born before or during the Kennedy/Johnson era if you think Bush is this big bullying murdering,lying to the public demon of all time proportions.Summon up James Morrison on your Quiga bowahd and ask him about his father's role in the Vietnam conspiracy.Whilst you are at it,ask to speak to Marilyn and ask her if JFK has ever lied to America......... you know,mine the man who Bill Clinton,Fidel Castro and I were always so fond of. Since I'm the obvious only dissenting voice here,I'll shout. :lol Your hatred isn't going to bring the troops home.It feeds and fuels the enemy and as long as the enemy has food and fuel,we have the war.btw,Tricky Dick didn't create a Vietnam nightmare.He inherited one and since then has been used by everyone from Chairman Mao to Comrade Moore.

[4dogknight]

Yo EighthAv, I'm from the Roosevelt/Truman era and I can tell you that most of the time you are talking through your hat or in other words, remembering history to seek to make your point.

First: JFK, Johnson and Nixon inherited Viet Nam. Troops were in South East Asia when Eisenhower was in office. Course you are probably too young to remember that.

Second: JFK was more consumed by the Cuban Missile crisis and domestic issues. And then there is the fact that he was assassinated but you are probably too young to remember that either.

Third: Johnson escalated the war on the demand of his generals and congress because of the intelligence they were handed. Although Johnson did a good job during his administration(s) on domestic issues, I suppose a self professed southerner wouldn’t see it that way.

Fourth: Nixon campaigned for election on ending the Viet Nam war. But then his first actions on that subject were to send more troops into the theater. The icing on the cake: he and his 'guys' got caught with their hands in the opposition's cookie jar although the 'thingy' with China was not too shabby.
btw,Tricky Dick didn't create a Vietnam nightmare.He inherited one and since then has been used by everyone from Chairman Mao to Comrade Moore.
That's true he did inherit the war but he prolonged it unnecessarily.

You know EigthAv you've been playing the condescension card far too often and it is going to catch up to you one of these first days and bite you in the nether regions.

Frankly I don't see hatred in this thread only embarrassment that this man is in office and used his position to send American troops into harms way on the basis of lies, half truths and innuendos for his own personal agenda.

Don’t agree with me - - - – I wouldn’t have it any other way!

4dk

[Davespectral]

Quote from Mike:
I totally disagree.You must have not been born before or during the Kennedy/Johnson era if you think Bush is this big bullying murdering,lying to the public demon of all time proportions.Summon up James Morrison on your Quiga bowahd and ask him about his father's role in the Vietnam conspiracy.Whilst you are at it,ask to speak to Marilyn and ask her if JFK has ever lied to America......... you know,mine the man who Bill Clinton,Fidel Castro and I were always so fond of. Since I'm the obvious only dissenting voice here,I'll shout. Your hatred isn't going to bring the troops home.It feeds and fuels the enemy and as long as the enemy has food and fuel,we have the war.btw,Tricky Dick didn't create a Vietnam nightmare.He inherited one and since then has been used by everyone from Chairman Mao to Comrade Moore.
Mike

Davespectral responds.....

What?? That sounded kind of disconnected.
Don't tell me that an accurate perspective feeds and fuels the enemy. That is a very stupid, brutal little talking points slam, and if you do it again, I'm going to start slamming you right back. This thread will then degrade very rapidly.

The title of this thread is "Bush the Coward". This is what the right wing crazies do all of the time, I talk Bush and they talk Clinton, I talk Bush, they talk Kerry. Clinton has been out of office for 5 years. If Bush was as well educated as you are, ;) he would have realized that the only difference between Iraq and Vietnam are the trees vs. the sand, and so far, the number of Americans killed. Those who are ignorant of history are doomed to repeat it. Right now, because he partied his way through a college that his g.p.a. would never have gotten him in to, he is repeating it. I am at least as familiar as you are with the Golf of Tonkin incident, Vietnam, M.A.D., the Hippies, the Yippies, Kent State, John Glenn and everything else in that wonderful, turbulent era. Marilyn Monroe? The right wing is so obsessed with left wing sex. But once again, that is not what this thread is about, it is about the President who you are stuck defending, and that is Bush. I'm sure you will get plenty of help on this thread.

You insinuate that because we were lied to about the nightmare of Vietnam, it is o.k. to be lied to about the nightmare of Iraq. Hmmm. I simply don't know where to go with that one.

I bet you didn't know this: Bush signed a bill for the farmers in the key breadbasket swing states, for one hundred eighty billion dollars. (A billion is one thousand times a million) This is not for the mom and pop farms that we all love, but for the big business in that area. He did that to help get re-elected. It looks like it worked. Even Fox news criticized him for that one. That is equal to six hundred ten million, level four bullet proof vests. (Retail price, minus shipping). While Rumsfeld says, "You go to war with what you have...."--- We could have gone to war with more stuff than we would ever possibly need. But no, Bush wanted to get re-elected, so that he could leave an even bigger stain in history.

A few more facts...
When our troops are killed, Rumpsfeld's office sends form letters which are not even hand signed.

Compared to a year ago, the amount of troops killed per week is INCREASING.

Also, because they didn't secure some of the old stock piles of Iraqi weapons, when the news says that troops are getting hit with ied's, they are actually shaped charges. Armor will not stop a shaped charge.

Only one member of Congress has a semi-close relative in this debacle.

Dave

[EigthAv]

Dave,you couldn't wake me up if I was asleep.Slam away. Youz guyz have succeeded in running off most of the voices who would argue with you and now you enjoy a feeding frenzy on what is left. I never said Vietnam makes anything right. Eisenhower advised Kennedy to stay out of it and Kennedy didn't listen.......yada,yada,yesterdays news.I didn't insult Clinton.Something we have in common is that we both admired Kennedy as youths. If ya'll want this entire forum all to yourselves so you can enjoy trashing the prez,religion and anything else you hate without any interuptions,cool. It's getting a bit boring anyway. Just don't think I left because you scare me Dave.:lol :lol If you get the forum closed it will be because you are rather rude,not because I stuck around dueling you for "the last word."

[Davespectral]

Look, I just dived in to this and frankly, I thought I would get my *** handed to me, by the Right. I haven't even looked at the polit. stuff here until today. I certainly respect you for being out numbered, which I just found out now. I'll be honest, I'm 53 also. I'll give you a couple things. I was all for Bush 1 in Iraq/Kuwait. Also when W. grabbed that bullhorn and talked to the rescuers after 9-11, I'm thinking YEAH! I loved it. For someone panned for his speaking skills, the speech he gave after the attack was as good as Kennedy's inaugural (delivery) Also I thought W. handled the start of the war real well. He didn't fly cruise missals all over the place. He waited, organized, and went in to Afghanastan, which I was also all for. Then he went in to Iraq......

I look back and I think that Vietnam was wrong, but that's only in hindsite. I didn't know it then and neither did our Government. I pretty much believed in the, "Domino Principal". My oldest brother volunteered, went over there on a Navy P.B.R. "A type of plastic patrol boat" He was a normal guy with a hoped up '55 Chevey. He did a damn good job over there. He wound up walking around over there with a fameldahyde mason jar. :(
Dave

[mr pru]

Poor Mikey Wikey...

[EigthAv]

:lol Prutesie,let me give you a little of my board background so you understand I kind of like being outnumbered............<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->
ISU Board-late 1999: Kwan and Lipinski were being used on that board like kick me dolls.The game was one side takes Michelle,the other side takes Tara and they trash them to Idaho and back......not all the way to hail. I created a board character,"Taraist" and proceeded to take on the gamesters. This went over like a an iron balloon.There were a few others on the board who preferred more constructive discussions so it wasn't long before I made a few allies.By March,the flames were down to a decent campfire level and only the boards British threads were blazing with visciousness.......mostly dueling skatemums and it could be funny at times............<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->I took "Taraist" out of action for obvious reasons after 911."EigthAv" is a good all around handle,but lacks the unbridled spunk to really dig into a poster.:lol I know,it shouldn't matter,but somehow when you make up a board handle,it is limited to what it looks and sounds like.By now,Taraist would probably have been banned from here for excessive ranting in the middle of the left leaning thread.8th is too "gentlemanly" to enter without knocking and go to blasting away.[<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->I need to get back to a smoother style.Getting p-owed and frustrated is counter-productive.Boards should be fun,not just another venue for stress.It's not any of ya'll,it's me. Tough summer,yada yada,etc and harder to get laid back and in a groove.<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->Dave,here is my hand dude.A cyber handshake? I'd rather get along and when neccesary,agree to disagree than jump up and down on each other's heads. I mostly agree with you about Nam. I wasn't there,but I did have a few buddies back then who were. A cool experience I recall from back then was when Jerry"s(i won't post the last name) father had Jerry on his ham radio rig,live from Vietnam.Jerry was a marine. I was always somewhere "in the middle". A side of me felt like that war that we called "conflict" was doing way more harm than good,but I did know some of the soldiers and I also had this diehard loyalty to standing Presidents.I've always had a spot in my heart for the Vietnam vets. <!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->As for Kennedy,Johnson and Nixon,all 3 men made some serious mistakes.All 3 men also did some great things.Of the 3,today,I like JFK best.Then Tricky Dick and then LBJ. Johnson was willing to take on Wallace and try to put an end to attrocities against African Americans in Alabama who only wanted a fair shake.For that alone,salut! Nixon went to Russia and to China.I think he had good intentions,but look at the mess he was already in from the start of his presidency.JFK stared down Kruschev,put NASA on top and gave us reasons to hold our heads up and strive for better things.<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->I'm being patient with GW Bush.As I was with every other President who has held the office since I was olde enough to halfway know what's going on. <!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->One last thing..........it wasn't me who ran to the moderaters.:rollin My older brother taught me the hard way to never be a tattle tail.

[MKGrace]

DaveSpectral - Great posts! :) I had no problem getting Saddam out of Iraq, but that should've been the end of it. Bush is too much of a narcissist to admit he's make a mistake of keeping us over there too long and costing the lives of hundreds of soldiers for pretty much nothing. It's time to cut our losses and get out of there. I have no doubt Iraq will end up some sort of theocracy--IMO that's what most of them have wanted all along anyway, not a Western-style democracy.