POLITICAL LANDMARK: We might not have a page 5

[kwancierto de aranjuez]

Yay! We did it! We made a page 4!

Wasn't it like yesterday when we had just made a page 2!

Looky! The Politilocos made a another stride to making political discussions in MKF work.

In retrospect does anyone here think it's working?

-----------------------

Oh man! Who is doing the bashing? Stop it! You are really killing it those who just want to have intelligent discussions.

I don't go into all the thread and I haven't really read any bashing other than against "gays" and "communists" but I've thought this section was pretty tame. WHo please don't ruin this for everybody whoever is bashing! Pretty please.

[EigthAv]

I was thinking about this MKF polly-tix forum and the left-right thing last night.Maybe it's better if the USA is a "divided nation". Looking at it optimistcally,you can get a solid one-two punch.If the right one doesn't get you,the left one will,eh? :lol I hope none of you take it personal when I'm in the hardcore rightwing role and raving on. If you look at my profile,arguing is listed amongst my hobbies.:evil Point-counterpoint.I think another thing that moved me right was my peer group when I was younger.Buncha hippies!:smokin Being anti-establishment was envogue.Then one day,the hippies became the establishment.Music,24/7/365.25 became a huge-big priority.Instead of dressing up to go out,you dress down. As a hopeless non-conformist,I had no choice but to begin to resist.In many many ways,I am still a hippie at heart.Sometimes I can imagine George & Laura Bush with Bill & Hillary Clinton,all rared back in a big ole den somewhere,passing a joint(but not inhaling) as they watch themselves being lampooned on SNL.:lol :lol Gotta watch these Southun Guvnahz.:eek It's all cool.If we all just agreed on all the political and figure skating issues it would just be another boring board.

[JerryStopher]

Wait ... it's gone! Maybe that's what the hackattack was about: the Vast Conspiracy broke into EZ-Board just to wipe out some of our polichatter!

[EigthAv]

Jerry,it was Bill Clinton and Bob Dole..............dudes gone wild on Viagra :lol :lol I can't prove it,but I caught a glimpse of them sneaking around behind the board just before the weirdness began.

[4dogknight]

Guys look again, #3 is back.

4dk - who saw neither Clinton or Dole lurking anywhere in the vicinity. However, I did see little Mikey Daly going into the woodshed. Probably thinking it was a 'blind pig' like he frequented when he was a puppy and his dad was "Da" Mayor.

[madison]

4dk,
I can't make out any of the posts that people could complain about. I truly thought things had calmed down, and I feel at a loss when the mods warn posters here and we don't have a clue what we are being warned about.

Anyone of the mods - you are welcome to PM me - I just don't know what you are referring to.

[moxie]

There was some bad language in one of the gay posts; sparked a lot of comment last week before it was edited out.

That might have been it, because lately we've been pretty tame.

[4dogknight]

Motherlode I'm just as much in dark as you. The way I read the 'tacked' thread was that the mods were not so much aggrieved by the posts in the section but by the amount of PMs and e-mails they were receiving.

I don't know about anyone else but to me 'unmoderated' (even if Merriam-Webster does not recognize this as a word) means 'not moderated' and that includes PM'ing and e-mailing moderators. And doesn't it even spell that concept out in the 'rules and regulations'? I've wanted to PM one of the mods to change the title of the "Bush The Coward" thread for the longest time but I didn't because of the 'unmoderated' designation of the section. Course I could be wrong.

I'm not sure what exactly is going on here and if someone would care to enlighten Motherlode and me, please PM us.

4dk

[JerryStopher]

Moxie said ... There was some bad language in one of the gay posts; sparked a lot of comment last week before it was edited out.Oh my goo'ness! Someone spoke naughty?? Me, I didn't see it, cuz I don't go in the gay threads, having nothing to say on the matter.

But I think the others are correct in their reading of the post from the unmods: the problem is folks gritching about this ungritchable forum.

My conspiracy theory is that someone doesn't want us to discuss issues here, and has figured out a way to get our li'l sandbox closed forever. I think that's silly at best, and I hope it backfires.

[madison]

Jerry,
I didn't see it, either. I didn't read the thread.

I am sincere about knowing what the difficulty has been, 4dk.
I can't see how we can alter our posts if we don't know what the problem is. Maybe a mod could let us know, (thru a PM, and not in FF).

[Krista]

I'd say the main problem is the people running to the mods. Its unmoderated. People just need to get a thick skin, and move on. Ignore the ones that you don't approve of their posts, and if they aren't getting any attention, they'll eventually wander off *shrug*

[madison]

Well, DMBChic
It hasn't been me, and you make a good point. Just 'MoveOn' if you don't like someone's posts.
I really thought things had improved a lot.

[manskater]

Motherlode -- this whole situation makes me wonder because in the previous situation where the mods were threatening to shut down the political portions it seems to me it was the LLs and moderates who fought to keep it open and imo it has been the LLs and moderates who have managed to keep them civil. Just my 2 cts.

[Skatekwan6]

Mike, is refusing to put a space after your commas and periods a part of your "nonconformist" nature? Having an intelligent argument is one thing. Sounding completely ignorant simply to "go against the grain" is another thing (and is quite annoying). For example, your comment that your "plight" as a white, straight, Christian (not sure if you included the Christian part, though) male is comparable to what gays go through in this country makes it seem as though you are just typing for the sake of typing. Do you ever actually think about what you type before you type it?

[JerryStopher]

Skatekwan6 typed ... Mike, is refusing to put a space after your commas and periods a part of your "nonconformist" nature? Having an intelligent argument is one thing. Sounding completely ignorant simply to "go against the grain" is another thing (and is quite annoying).Well, there you have it, folks: the problem is that Mike is a poor typist. That annoys SK6, who then gritches. Then someone - maybe it's ol' Against-the-Grain Mike - gritches to the unmods about how they're not moderating. Then when Heather's out of pocket, some unmod decides we mustn't type any more about polly-tix because Mike flunked the punctuation quiz in High School Typing Class.

Meanwhile, all we're discussing here is how to keep our privilege of discussing. Ahem. Is this what we call "productive political debate?"

[Skatekwan6]

some unmod decides we mustn't type any more about polly-tix because Mike flunked the punctuation quiz in High School Typing Class.

haha, Jerry. Once again, you're wrong. My comment about Mike's typing has nothing to do with whether or not we should talk about politics on this forum. I was simply wondering if it had something to do with his being a nonconformist, since it is pretty much a "natural" thing to press the space bar after words, periods, and commas, although it may not be "natural" for him. Natural or not, there should be spaces. Not once did I say or imply that "We shouldn't talk about politics because Mike doesn't put spaces after his commas and periods." Read carefully please.

[JerryStopher]

SK6, I would suggest that you go to your public library and see if you can check out a sense of humor, but then, you may not have a library card. Oh, what to do!

[Skatekwan6]

Oh Jerry, how could I possibly have a library card?!? I'm only 21...too young to know anything, right? If you are joking or being sarcastic, I suggest that you use a smiley in your post. That's what they are for, as I do not have a webcam to see your facial expressions when you post.

[JerryStopher]

;) ;) ;) How could anyone under 60 know anything atall? ;) ;) ;)

[MKGrace]

Skatekwan6- I think you could stand to lighten up a little. I see your point - there are typos and grammatical errors all over this place. If you focus on that you'll drive yourself crazy. Mike's post can be tedious to read when they're like one big sentence, so sometimes I just skip over them if I can't make sense of them (no offense Mike). In the end I have no doubt my posts have plenty of issues, errors factual and grammatical, etc. so what's the point. That's not what this place is about anyway.

[Jayjen36]

Well, the problem in one of the threads had to do with a poster using one of the names of a particular male appendage that begins with a "c", and using only one asterisk to obscure the complete word (that description is safe enough I hope:) ). And I did make a very gentle suggestion in the thread that the poster might want to edit it. I wanted to avoid a lot of PMs to the board Mods. But I guess that a lot of them were sent anyway. But really other than this incident I haven't seen any problems that haven't been worked out between the people who post here. I'm not sure what "a lot" of PMs would even be about.:\

edited to add an "h" and "e" *sigh*:o

[elliebea]

Motherlode -- this whole situation makes me wonder because in the previous situation where the mods were threatening to shut down the political portions it seems to me it was the LLs and moderates who fought to keep it open and imo it has been the LLs and moderates who have managed to keep them civil. Just my 2 cts.

Manskater, I think you're pretty astute, and have nailed it, especially about LLs and moderates generating civility.

I've come to the conclusion that a figure skating fan site is just not the place for political discussion (which by its very nature is contentious). No amount of groundrules or prior agreements is going to change that. People get offended when their own issues and/or favorite political personalities are merely criticized.

We've got a situation where unnamed persons making unspecified complaints secretively has triggered an angry threat to those who are actually open and as pointed out above, quite civil. The inherent absurdity of that is what gives me cause to agree with your observation (and suspicion).

[EigthAv]

LLs,civil??? "Bush is a coward". That is civil? When a gay thread was started,the only way to not be yelled at was to simply say,yes,you are correct and white-male-straights are the number one reason the World is screwed up.It wasn't really open to discussion.The only solution for the Iraq situation is the LL solution.Bush should check with the MKF poly-tix LLs before nominating judges.ISU judges should check in with the MKF LLs before they key their marks.Should I bag or mulch? You tell me massah.:eek LLs on the board don't like for RLs to disagree with them. When we do,we are stupid.There was a concerted effort to kil the RL thread.You won,congratulations.I haven't been to a moderater to complain. The LLs want a forum where they can have a love-in and all agree with each other.Cool. You got it. Peace,love and understanding to youz always.:hat Enjoy.:D

[kwancierto de aranjuez]

Don't generalize please.

I've never gone to RL thread and said anything bad.

[moxie]

Plus. when the Politics area was reopened on this board, the mods did not create RL and LL threads. It was up to us to create & name whatever topic threads we wanted. We are free to post & react to postings in every thread.

Just because one poster (not a mod) starts a thread & titles it "for right-leaners only" does not mean that those who are not defined as RL (by themselves or others) must stay out.

Actually, I wish we didn't have any RL or LL threads at all. I wish folks would just create separate topic threads for each issue, so that everyone could contribute without being accused of straying into someone else's "area."

[elliebea]

There was a concerted effort to kil the RL thread.

Now you're claiming victimhood here?

Is this our easy-going, bantering, debate-loving 8thAve speaking here?

Seriously, Mike, all presidents get criticized, frequently in harsh terms. Where have you been all these decades?

[EigthAv]

You don't have to convince me. Half the time I am liberal.When I was playing bass guitar in the Wetumka VFW a rumour went around certain corners of Elmore County that I was a Communist,simply because I had a few Soviets on my faves list and refused to condemn all Communists.I never said the way it was being practiced in the good olde USSR was nice.The way Democracy is praticed in modern America is sometimes rather weird.<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->The LLs did run most of the RLs off. The LLs aren't saints or Einsteins. There was some piling on in the now defunct RL thread.Jerry,I like you dude.If you will recall,I was the one,the only one,who tried to do some hardcore campainin' fer ya when you'az runnin' fer Mr.Kwan.You are a bit blunt and harsh sometimes,so don't pretend to be Mr.NiceGuy..........although it is my favourite Alice Cooper song.....:lol ..... <!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->Ya'll politically abused™ KwanFanatic. Without her,this thread is no fun at all.KwanFanatic,deep down inside,is plum sweet.Admit it,if we are all agreeing and patting each other on the back all the time,it can become a bit boring.If you really want some insight into what makes "the other side tick",don't be so quick to pounce the next time one of them totally disagrees with you.Try the softer,more nurturing "get em your side approach".Learn from Sistah Hill-Ree™.

[moxie]

Ya'll politically abused™ KwanFanatic. Without her,this thread is no fun at all.KwanFanatic,deep down inside,is plum sweet.Admit it,if we are all agreeing and patting each other on the back all the time,it can become a bit boring.If you really want some insight into what makes "the other side tick",don't be so quick to pounce the next time one of them totally disagrees with you.Try the softer,more nurturing "get em your side approach".

I never "abused" kwanfanatic. I did frequently challenge her to back up her (often generalized) statements with direct quotes and links, as one would do in any debate. And if you read through her posts, you won't find much softness or nurturing in her frequent references to "dims" (instead of Democrats), "Err America" (instead of Air America), etc., etc.

It was always a one-way street: Her way or the highway. Just like a certain president we know.

[madison]

I agree, moxie. You have been more diplomatic than anyone I have seen on this board.

[JerryStopher]

Motherload said ... I agree, moxie. You have been more diplomatic than anyone I have seen on this board.Ain't neither! I'm most diplomatickest! I never argue with anyone atall, not even you!

[moxie]

Thank, motherlode. I do try ...
Jerry, I would never dream of arguing with you.:angel

[madison]

OK, Jerry,
You aren't nasty, just funny! And I do enjoy your stories:)

Mother'load'

[Jayjen36]

I'm not really sure how any RL were "run off" of the political boards. It seems that people were expressing their opinions, that's all. And there really was never any agreement made that each "side" would stick to their own threads. Why would people giving their political opinions on a political board run people off? I admit that I didn't often venture into the RL threads, but when I did there wasn't anything horrible being said by the LL, just a lot of commenting. Not always friendly comments but not out of line at all IMO.

As for KwanFanatic, I think that she was treated the way that she treated others. In fact, often I think she was treated better. Although she was challenged a lot by the LLs, other than one or two stray comments about being a bit close-minded (my word not an exact quote) no one insulted her. She on the other had often referred to people on the left as Dems/Dims, liars, pointless, and went on about how much she despised/loathed them, etc. If someone is being spoken of in this way, how should they respond ?

I did comment about how I really disliked the posts in which KwanFanatic and a few other RL ranted about how much they despised liberals, but I wouldn't say that I attacked her. And I don't think that I wrote anything that was inappropriate or over the top.

I'm sorry that there were RL that were uncomfortable here, but when you voice an opinion RL or LL why would you expect that it would go unchallenged? Especially if you "shout" it with a bullhorn??