Hurricane

[JerryStopher]

Levees broke, whole city flooded, people stranded ... You can see it all on CNN or other news sources.

Today, I watched as a bunch of suits in Washington said things like, "We've got thousands of troops and police there, and they've already delivered 5.6 million Meals Ready to Eat, and 8.3 millions litres of water," then CNN showed the people starving without food, water, or any kind of safety. Yes, some are slowly being moved from the Super Dome to the Astrodome, and more will go to San Antonio & Dallas. Yes, their children are already getting enrolled in school here, and the grownups are being offered all the help we can muster with local-only resources.

But on the local news tonight, there was a story of two young men who stole schoolbusses in a parish near N'Yawlinz. The feller they spoke to said a policeman told them, if they could hotwire a schoolbus, do it, and take as many as they can to Texas for safety. The young man said, I kid you not, that people were so desperate, they were "stompin' on little kids, killin 'em to steal half a bottle of water, killin for half a bag of chips. They shootin the cops, shootin each other, killin anybody with food or water. So we stole the schoolbusses, and got outta there."

Chaos reins in my old Louisiana home ...

And meanwhile, there are three thousand Louisiana National Guardsmen in Iraq, and if that idiot in the White House cared about the poor people of America, he would at least bring those guys home to help.

It's been four days since the hurricane hit, and all they're doin in Washington is talking. To hell with bein nice. My people need help!

[EigthAv]

Jerry,all your cute olde Lousie Anna writing style can't mask your mean spirit.Bush didn't create the mayhem in the deep south.You can't just suddenly beam 20,000 troops into just the right areas.Why don't you point your finger at the *******s who are stompining children,raping women and girls ansd otherwise making this disaster far worse than it could be if they'd never been born to start with. I applaude Houston for it's genorosity.I applaude the reverend who spoke on the Hannity & Colmes hour for his Church committing to taking in 10 families and challenging all American churchs to do likewise.Brother,this ain't about us vs them.This is very real and slinging mud ain't the answer.I love Mobile,Bi Luxie and New Orleans.I loathe the sobs who are having a good ole time taking advantage of a bad situation. Jerry,long before "we" ever commited troops to Afganistan or Iraq or anywhere else,"way over yonder",I wanted badly for "us" to use all our resources ro clean up America and I mean really clean it up.If you want to lead,lead by example and then let the World see a genuine shining example.Don't hide your garbage whilst advertising us as the land of milk and honey.Dude,I voted for a Texan in 1992 and it wasn't Big Bush,it was Ross the boss Perot.Most of youz laughed at him.

[Davespectral]

In 2001 the politicians in that area all but begged congress to shore up the levies so that they could withstand a storm like this. Congress had better things to spend their money on. (God knows what). I even saw it coming from a special that I saw on the discovery channel a couple of weeks ago, and I don't claim to be a scientist.

Two of my favorite conservatives are O'Reilly and Scarborough. (Check out the resume on Scarborough) www.joescarborough.com/joe.aspx (http://www.joescarborough.com/joe.aspx) They are there, or have people there and they are blaming the government. Bush may not have created the mayhem there.....but once again he was asleep on the job for the first two days.

Dennis Hastert (R. IL.) questioned whether it is worth rebuilding N.O. in a statement he made today. He made that statement while these people were still soaking in water, homeless, thirsty, and I'm sure are still at least very hungry. What a sensitive statement on his part. The first responsibility of our government is to protect it's citizens. The President, and both houses of Congress are Republican. Once again, beyond any doubt, they have proved that they can not lead. On the other hand, the governor of Texas, certainly proved that he can. He should get a humanitarian award or something. All we can do is to remember these things when the mid-terms come up.

Dave

[Sparks]

This article is a must read:

service.spiegel.de/cache/...55,00.html (http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,372455,00.html)


In 2001, FEMA warned that a hurricane striking New Orleans was one of the three most likely disasters in the U.S. But the Bush administration cut New Orleans flood control funding by 44 percent to pay for the Iraq war.
REUTERS
An aerial view of the New Orleans airport underwater.
Biblical in its uncontrolled rage and scope, Hurricane Katrina has left millions of Americans to scavenge for food and shelter and hundreds to thousands reportedly dead. With its main levee broken, the evacuated city of New Orleans has become part of the Gulf of Mexico. But the damage wrought by the hurricane may not entirely be the result of an act of nature.
A year ago the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers proposed to study how New Orleans could be protected from a catastrophic hurricane, but the Bush administration ordered that the research not be undertaken. After a flood killed six people in 1995, Congress created the Southeast Louisiana Urban Flood Control Project, in which the Corps of Engineers strengthened and renovated levees and pumping stations. In early 2001, the Federal Emergency Management Agency issued a report stating that a hurricane striking New Orleans was one of the three most likely disasters in the U.S., including a terrorist attack on New York City. But by 2003 the federal funding for the flood control project essentially dried up as it was drained into the Iraq war.

[Davespectral]

Thank you Sparks. That article proves that it is time to impeach Bush. He doesn't quite believe in all that newfangled science.

Dave

[EigthAv]

If New Orleans could afford to build a super dome,throw a party every night and establish a reputation for lavish eating and drinking,they could have also built a more secure water wall. I question my own city's choice to bankroll a minor league baseball team complete with a nice cozy new stadium whilst we still have kids going to school in porto buildings and don't have adequate numbers of qualified local law enforcement officers.It's a matter of priorities.I question my nations willingness to clean up the World and ignore it's own filth.As I said earlier,we can all argue till doomsday over who is to blame.Words won't save a city or the State of Mississippi.Both majour political parties have shown me why a man like Jesse Ventura can defy the status quo and become a state governor.Perot didn't succeed in becoming our first independent president,but did give a loud wake up call and because he acted,we will eventually have a government of,by and for the people again.All of the people.

[madison]

Sparks and Davesp,
I so totally agree. And we are looking to these people to protect us in the event of another 9/11?

It certainly feels like we are no further prepared for other national attacks and disasters than we were 4 years ago.

[Davespectral]

Thank you motherlode02. I am not happy, or gloating about this link here, but I Googled it, and these are the results: ww.google.com/search?num=...tnG=Search (http://ww.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=lang_en&q=impeach+george+w.+bush&btnG=Search)

Dave
:(

[Dave]

I'm glad to see that people are being informed about where the priorities lie for this administration. There were red flags all over this just like 9/11.

Now, liberal media? Do the Clinton test, imagine the worst natural disaster in American history, the next day Bill Clinton spent the entire day on a resort in Arizona playing golf and we never hear a word from him, what would the media do?

[JerryStopher]

www.wwltv.com/ (http://www.wwltv.com/) for the latest news.

[tongueincheek]

If New Orleans could afford to build a super dome,throw a party every night and establish a reputation for lavish eating and drinking,they could have also built a more secure water wall. Because, you know, it's those poor citizens of New Orleans who are out partying every night and lavishly eating and drinking.....it's certainly not TOURISTS bringing their much need tourist dollars and hotel tax revenue to a poor city. And of course that superdome doesn't bring in any tourist and tax revenue either. Shame on New Orleans. They should have stopped those partying tourists long ago, kicked them out, and then......oh, wait? Why do we have less money now?? :rolleyes

That's the kind of "logic" I would expect from a six year old.

[GinnySmith]

This post is not directed at anyone nor is it a response to any of the posts here. As food for thought, I just wanted to share an article written by Leonard Pitts, of the Miami Hearld. Leonard is one of my favorite columnists. He won the Pulitzer Prize for commentary in 2004:

Much of this resonated within me, especially the closing paragraphs:

www.mtstandard.com/articl...on_top.txt (http://www.mtstandard.com/articles/2005/09/02/newsopinion_top/newsopinion_top.txt)

[missmarysgarden]

f there is one thing to be grateful for in this heartbreaking disaster, it is that it has exposed the ineptness of the political hacks that Bush appointed to head FEMA and Homeland Security. I have never heard such poli-speak, bottom kissing, whining excuses in my life - lying, cover up, empty promises. This should wake the American people from their slumber about the security of our country. Heaven forbid we should have another 9/11 - if these two worthless, inept, lying crybabies are still in charge of our national security and disaster relief. Its a national disgrace. If a battlefield general (and this is what we are supposed to believe are the qualifications of these two suits) had so utterly failed in his mission, he would have been relieved of command. Bush daily praises both of them for the job they are doing. What? having meetings and press conferences?

Bush has squandered the wealth of the country in Iraq, and has the balls to tell the American people to be generous in their donations. Then he asks Old Bush and Clinton to make an international appeal for money from other countries to help the people of New Orleans. There are no words to express my outrage and disgust.

My son flies helicopter for one of the oil platform supply companies, and they have helped with some of the hospital evacuations, so he has seen the horror of the situation for real. And has several news people have said in the last day - they've heard enough of "help is coming" and the excuses that they just can't get there yet because of logistics...the news people have pointed out "we are here; we got in the day after Katrina hit; we managed to get to the coast; we have been to the dome. Its not that hard to get there. You can just drive up to the dome - like the buses did. As far as the excuse that "its still too unstable and dangerous to risk the lives of our rescue people." Hell, that's what rescue is all about!!! People need rescue from danger! Duh!! You don't wait for the danger to be gone. What a bunch of stinking cowards.

I heard a White House spokesman say that Bush probably wouldn't land in New Orleans today because he "would leave too big a footprint in the political landscape." A lightweight, draft-dodging coward like Bush couldn't leave a big footprint if he was carrying two anvils. The people of New Orleans and the Gulf Coast don't need to hear anymore of his gratuitous bilge about his thoughts and prayers, and his plea for patience. They need water and food and medical care, and they need it two days ago. Where is it? Where the hell is it!!! Its too damn late for a lot of people.

Heaven help us in our vulnerability under the mismanagement and ineptness of our government.

[probativev]

My opinion is that it's no use for us to place blame around. But what really pissed me off so far is not so much the slowness in response, or the fact that the Feds didn't realize how disastrous this is. I think this is catastrophe beyond our wildest imagination (yes, even with the multiple warnings...you just don't believe it really will happen), so everyone from the Oval office on down are shellshocked.

What really pisses me off is seeing the FEMA spokesperson makin excuses left and right. I want to throw some rotten fruit at him everytime I see him speak on TV. The more he tries to defend their errors, the more angry it makes me. They need to admit they are inefficient and then just go and do their best now. Their continual defenses and denials make me think...who the fcuk does he think he's fooling? No one wants to hear what they've already done. What we all want to hear is what they are going to do....like Giuliani did during 9/11. He wasn't dwelling on how they did this and they did that and people should give us credit for all we've done. All that doesn't make anyone feel any better or improve any thing. Just come up with a @#%$ plan and do it. That guy just should be fired.

And frankly, the mayor of New Orleans and the governor of LA aren't doing that much better in showing some real leadership right now either.

[missmarysgarden]

Good post, Probative. Actually, it was the head of FEMA who really got my blood boiling from Day 1. The first day he is presenting some political speech about the American spirit and how it wil rise to meet the challenge, and all this crap about "our president" will do this, and on an on. It was CLASSIC butt kissing. What my husband and I noticed was that he was wearing a suit, a clean white shirt and a tie. What an idiot. If you want the American people to listen, you better have your sleeves rolled up. Next day, he got rid of the coat and tie, but he still had the white shirt with the sleeves still buttoned. Third day - white shirt with the sleeves rolled to below the elbow. Finally, yesterday - he has on a red golf shirt. Damn, he is a white shirt freak!!! He should be pulled from his position NOW!!! I am convinced his job was a political plum for past favors - because this guy was visibly quaking in his boots, trembling lips, whining, making excuses - he looked like a high school freshman in the principal's office.

The head of Homeland Security is no better. American people need to demand accountability for this failure, and like it or not, the buck stops on Bush's desk.

I think that Blanco blew this - it was beyond her. I think Nagin did what he could with little or no resources. And frankly, I think it was Nagin's pull no punches interview full of expletives NOT deleted, that finally got things moving. I'm sure that Bush is snubbing New Orleans now that Nagin told him literally to "get off his *** and get down there." But at least Bush rolled up his sleeves. Somehow he just didn't look ready to go to work. it was an obvious photo op.

Was anyone adequately prepared? Some. Nagin at least got a million people out of the city by evacuation order. Could more have been done pre-Katrina? Not much. In spite of statements to the contrary, New Orleans is a very poor city, in a very poor state, with huge poverty - and gross state product that runs on oil, chemicals and tourism. Most of the money is in 10% of the population who are extremely wealthy, and have enormous tax shelters. If all you know of New Orleans is the French Quarter, you know very little about New Orleans (I don't mean you personally).

I live in Minnesota, and I live with the expectation that if we had a terrible disaster like Katrina, help would be there. I wouldn't expect some suit to be on TV saying, "Well, we warned them about eating too much lutefisk, but they did it anyway. We don't know what the extenuating circumstances were, and who was justified in eating it and who wasn't, but the have to share some of the blame even if they were starving and it was all they had to eat. It took us a week to get there, but we were staging and our people were on task, and we have materials beginning to come into our staging area in Winnipeg, and we are ramping up our Guard personal - but we have heard that there are moose between us and Minneapolis, and until we get a good count and assurances that they won't be a threat to our personnel, we can't risk even more lives. (And an aside - "After all, they are mostly Norwegians aren't they?)

Probativ, I just don't buy any of the excuses. Our government security and disaster management totally failed these people. And I am convinced that nothing has changed since 9/11 - and that if anything, we are less safe than we were before this entire Homeland Security nonsense. It always sounds to me like "Fatherland Security", so I even find the title offensive.

I'm just half furious and half heartbroken.

[probativev]

That FEMA Michael Brown is just freakin unbelievable. You guys take a look at this:

www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/02/katrina.response/ (http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/02/katrina.response/)

Can someone please just shuff a TV screen into his face and up his arse while he waits for his goddamned reports?

[bjb22]

The response appears to be proportional to the preparedness of the People and authorities of New Orleans. The area seemed to have a cognitive dissonance to the fact that they could face a situation as terrible as Katrina. It appears that either arrogance or stupitity esacerbated the tragedy. Nonetheless, the authorities are required to respond immediately and appropriately.

"Seen the arrow on the doorpost
Saying this land is condemned
All the way from New Orleans to Jerusalem"

"Blind Wille McTell"- Bob Dylan

[manskater]

Maybe if this government did not cut funding to help shore up the levies around New Orleans the damage could have been minimized. <img border=0 src="http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/eyes.gif" />

[Davespectral]

From Hannity and Colmes:
They have just LOCKED everyone in the convention center, with no light, help, food or water inside. Also they have just set up a checkpoint on the only bridge out of town, and anyone who wants to leave will be turned back. Geraldo Rivera was crying, and Shepherd Smith sounded almost hysterical. I've never seen either of them act like that. I guess zero tolerance is now in effect.

[IzzyS]

Sparks, GinnySmith, et al...thanks for those articles. I knew in my heart that things went wrong a long, long time ago. Thanks for giving me the data to prove my instincts were right.

Ugh. I hate it when I'm right.

I know it sounds trite but I've never seen anything like this in my life, and it makes me feel helpless and, well, kinda depressed. I just heard on CNN about one hospital being evacauted and another (the one that serves the poorest patients, of course) being left unattended, while corpses are lined up in the hallways. I can't believe that in this country, something can't be done. It could have. It should have, a long time ago. The Powers That Be just felt that our money needed to be spent elsewhere.

[madison]

The United States of Shame

" Stuff happens.

And when you combine limited government with incompetent government, lethal stuff happens.

America is once more plunged into a snake pit of anarchy, death, looting, raping, marauding thugs, suffering innocents, a shattered infrastructure, a gutted police force, insufficient troop levels and criminally negligent government planning. But this time it's happening in America.

W. drove his budget-cutting Chevy to the levee, and it wasn't dry. Bye, bye, American lives. "I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees," he told Diane Sawyer.

Shirt-sleeves rolled up, W. finally landed in Hell yesterday and chuckled about his wild boozing days in "the great city" of N'Awlins. He was clearly moved. "You know, I'm going to fly out of here in a minute," he said on the runway at the New Orleans International Airport, "but I want you to know that I'm not going to forget what I've seen." Out of the cameras' range, and avoided by W., was a convoy of thousands of sick and dying people, some sprawled on the floor or dumped on baggage carousels at a makeshift M*A*S*H unit inside the terminal.

Why does this self-styled "can do" president always lapse into such lame "who could have known?" excuses.

Who on earth could have known that Osama bin Laden wanted to attack us by flying planes into buildings? Any official who bothered to read the trellis of pre-9/11 intelligence briefs.

Who on earth could have known that an American invasion of Iraq would spawn a brutal insurgency, terrorist recruiting boom and possible civil war? Any official who bothered to read the C.I.A.'s prewar reports.

Who on earth could have known that New Orleans's sinking levees were at risk from a strong hurricane? Anybody who bothered to read the endless warnings over the years about the Big Easy's uneasy fishbowl.

In June 2004, Walter Maestri, emergency management chief for Jefferson Parish, fretted to The Times-Picayune in New Orleans: "It appears that the money has been moved in the president's budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq, and I suppose that's the price we pay. Nobody locally is happy that the levees can't be finished, and we are doing everything we can to make the case that this is a security issue for us."

Not only was the money depleted by the Bush folly in Iraq; 30 percent of the National Guard and about half its equipment are in Iraq.

Ron Fournier of The Associated Press reported that the Army Corps of Engineers asked for $105 million for hurricane and flood programs in New Orleans last year. The White House carved it to about $40 million. But President Bush and Congress agreed to a $286.4 billion pork-filled highway bill with 6,000 pet projects, including a $231 million bridge for a small, uninhabited Alaskan island.

Just last year, Federal Emergency Management Agency officials practiced how they would respond to a fake hurricane that caused floods and stranded New Orleans residents. Imagine the feeble FEMA's response to Katrina if they had not prepared.

Michael Brown, the blithering idiot in charge of FEMA - a job he trained for by running something called the International Arabian Horse Association - admitted he didn't know until Thursday that there were 15,000 desperate, dehydrated, hungry, angry, dying victims of Katrina in the New Orleans Convention Center.

Was he sacked instantly? No, our tone-deaf president hailed him in Mobile, Ala., yesterday: "Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job."

When they were deaf for so long to the horrific misery and cries for help of the victims in New Orleans - most of them poor and black, like those stuck at the back of the evacuation line yesterday while 700 guests and employees of the Hyatt Hotel were bused out first - they shook the faith of all Americans in American ideals. And made us ashamed."


<a href="http://http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/03/opinion/03dowd.html" target="_new">http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/03/opinion/03dowd.html</a>

[Davespectral]

What a great post Motherlode02. Now I heard on the Mike Malloy Show that the Red Cross was not allowed in there, because they were afraid that people would swarm the trucks for food.

[EigthAv]

If one family loses because of drug or alcohol addictions,will anyone ever even hear about it? Yes,New Orleans has catered to the more radical partiers for a long time.I've been there and let the last place on a Sunday pre-dawn morning know that back home in Montgomery,the town really does stay awake all night on Saturdays.So what???? Hell raising is a priority? We should all ante up to make sure it always flourishs? A fantastically HUGE-BIG hurricane named Katrina announced loudly that she was going to annialate New Orleans.The residents and visitors had at least 48 hours to be ready.If Freedie Krueger himself stuck his head in your door to tell you,"you are next",would you "ride it out?" I've already donated twice to "the cause". Keep telling me why I should get down on my hands and knees and beg God to save New Orleans whilst taking His name in vane and I might hurt your wittle feelings.There are cool little towns all over Mississipi and Lower Alabama that got erased. I can't speak for Ole Miss and can say that Alabama is greatful for any and all help and isn't blaming you.Katrina kicked our butt!!! Keep your eyes wide open and your hands on the wheel.The future is uncertain and the end is always near.Be ready.

[olympic]

Mike,

Your post is all over the map. I don't know if you're playing the devil's advocate or what.

Katrina knocked on the door. People had ample warning, but some of the citizens of that city are so desperately poor, Mike. They DIDN'T have the money or the means to get out. Do you think that they can just jump in their SUVs, with their cases of Poland Spring Natural Water and drive to their summer homes? :rolleyes I'm nowhere near as poor as these people, but back in 1998, Hurricane Georges was threatening Miami and I had no car at the time and lived alone, no family down here at all. I had no idea what would've happened to me with a direct hit.

For the record, Louisiana had been begging for help to shore up their levee system. The Bush administration chose to slash funding in favor of the Iraq War and Tax Cuts.

[manskater]

I am so tired of giving Bush a free pass on his ineptitude. He says the results of the response is unacceptable yet praises FEMA?? You can't talk out of both sides of your mouth but then again this president has become an expert at that.<img border=0 src="http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/mad.gif" />

[madison]

manskater!
And WHY do we stand for it????? I don't get it. I JUST don't get it.

[madison]

If you need to choose a HUMAN services agency to send money to, please consider the SALVATION ARMY:
<a href="http://salvationarmy.org" target="_new">salvationarmy.org</a>

When we were hit by a F4 tornado in 65, they were there, in the thick of the destruction with us, serving free food - never asking a dime for it, and so helpful.

Last night, while everybody was pointing fingers and blame, I saw that they had already served 1200 meals. Yeh, it's a start, but that's a hell of a lot more than most anyone else was doing.

To quote a great song by Gloria Estefan: ...Get on your feet - and make it happen...

[Sparks]

Okay Mike...You really have me baffled here...
Some facts for you:
New Orleans had a 40% poverty rate. 62% of New Orleans' population were African American. The primary source of income in New Orleans (and the Gulf coasts of Mississippi and Alabama) is TOURISM.
When I visited NO last November, I was struck hard by the poverty. I saw immediately that most of the tourists (partiers/revelers) were white...the workers were African American. The division between the haves and have-nots was so striking...it was just so much more prevalent than I see in my home state (which is also very poor, BTW)

In conclusion, Mike - you are blaming the victim(s). Do you also blame women for getting raped because they were there or couldn't get away? How is this being a patriotic American?
I'm sick and tired of people doing this. >:

[tongueincheek]

Mike that post is so ridiculous and ignorant it doesn't even deserve a response. 0]

[bjb22]

Talk about the double standard going on there. When white people gather food and water it's called "procuring necessary provisions for survival". When a black person does it it's called "looting".

[manskater]

Sparks -- there was also the fact documented by a Dr Sanjay Gupta who is a CNN consultant who was at Charity hospital. Charity hospital is mainly for the indigent or those of low income. There were 200 patients, many who needed immediate care who were not airlifted out yet a private hospital next door was airlifting those personnel who were not needed ahead of the patients from Charity. Later everyone else from the private hospital was airlifted out still leaving those in Charity. Dr GUpta noted that there were some patients in Charity who passed away during this interim because of the conditions. Talk about class distinction.

[Krista]

Just thought I'd add here, that I saw that photo thing Bush had with the mother and daughter, on TV. I thought "oh thats great, go down there and get a photo op and make it look like MR. Bush is here to save the day" but my brother actually worked with FEMA all last year during the Florida hurricanes, and suprisingly he said that its FEMA that arranges all that, not Bush and his people. Surprised me.

Just a lil tidbit of info. Although it didn't make me feel *that* much better lol.

[Jayjen36]

I agree with the author of GinnySmith's article, that now with so many still waiting to be rescued and so much to be done, it's not the time to talk about such things, but I also agree with the author of Motherlode's article, Maureen Dowd, that there are very hard questions that need answering.

Why is it that those left to dehydration and starvation were largely poor, sick, elderly, or yes, black? Why were tourists given safety and shelter while the town's poor and ill were mostly left to fend for themselves?

And there was something I wondered about. What about the plans that were supposed to be in place to deal with terrorist attacks. Couldn't some of those plans have been used here? And there were reports that the storm was actually not as strong as was predicted. If that is the case, why is it that NO ONE was prepared for even half of the amount of destruction it caused?

And while I understand that massive movement of troops and supplies couldn't appear instantly, why couldn't some arrangements have been made to establish better communications? Much of the chaos could have been avoided if the individuals who were stranded and hopeless had access to some information that they could count on instead of rumors. Also, why couldn't arrangements have been made for the police or any officials available to take food and water for area supermarkets stores etc.. and distribute them as best they could. Let's face it, none of that merchandise will be saleable. It will all be discarded anyway, why not make use of it instead of wasting police power guarding it for no reason.

I don't know, it just seems that there is so much that realistically could have been done and no reason at all that so much was not.

[Jayjen36]

Hell raising is a priority? We should all ante up to make sure it always flourishs? A fantastically HUGE-BIG hurricane named Katrina announced loudly that she was going to annialate New Orleans.The residents and visitors had at least 48 hours to be ready.If Freedie Krueger himself stuck his head in your door to tell you,"you are next",would you "ride it out?" I've already donated twice to "the cause"..

HUH? Very simply, if you have 48 hrs. and have kids, no money for bus fare, no car, know no one who has a car or room for you to ride with them; or you are hospitalized and cannot leave on your own, or are elderly and need help to get down your front steps much less out of town, what exactly are you supposed to do??? I'm sure that you're not suggesting that because there's some real ritzy places in New Orleans that everyone who lives there benefits from them. The ones that benefit didn't need help to leave.

Keep telling me why I should get down on my hands and knees and beg God to save New Orleans whilst taking His name in vane and I might hurt your wittle feelings

I'm not sure what this means. Exactly who is it that you feel is taking God's name in vain?? Could it be that you feel that because New Orleans is know to most as "morally questionable" party town that they have no right to ask for divine intervention now?? Well, if that is the case, then tell me who did the children of New Orleans sin against? Did the poor who as I said can't afford a bus ticket to the next town suddenly find the money to join in all of the famous debauchery? Did an old woman who died in a wheelchair somehow party too much the day before? All of the "sinners" (except for the rot committing rapes, and murders) left in their limos and private jets or were gathered up and for the most part well taken care of until the could be returned safely home from their vacations.

[JerryStopher]

Alas, problems mount in the shelter areas...

Last night, my driver's door window was broken out by vandals. The Chrysler was parked at the I-HOP at the time, Travis was inside the restaurant.

The copper said they've caught groups of refugees from the rink, running around town vandalizing. There've been stabbings in that shelter.

The people, left in squalor, watching alligators eat human bodies that floated in the floodwater, are totally frustrated, angry, freaked out. Some do not have the coping skills they need, and have become violent and destructive.

I feel sorry for them, but they must not be excused: I want 'em prosecuted for their crimes. I also want the federal officials who don't care, to be persecuted at the voting booth. We all know who they are.

[manskater]

Jerry

Its always a few that ruins it for the many. That totally disgusts me. I can understand frustration that leads to anger but not to destruction of other people's property.

What also scares me is that there has been an increase in the purchase of guns in some areas where some of the people from the disaster areas are being taken.

This is going to be a long recovery.

[JerryStopher]

Seems like, every time a kid shows up at school with a gun, or a kid has a car wreck or gets cancer, about forty-leven grief counselors show up overnight to help people cope.

Where are they now?

[gratefulmkfan]

Jerry, I feel for you. I feel for everyone who is suffering. I almost wish I didn't feel. It hurts so much to be relatively helpless to see those who really need help now. I so much want to help, but I can't. I've thought of giving up the internet to send that money to relief efforts. It's the last "luxury" in my life at about $10.00 a month. I'm not a politician. I would have made a lousy one because I love people too much, and I want solutions, not b.s., and I'm not saying I have the solutions. I don't. (BTW, I pray to the same God whose name I take in vain in frustration. I do apologize first.)

HUH? Very simply, if you have 48 hrs. and have kids, no money for bus fare, no car, know no one who has a car or room for you to ride with them; or you are hospitalized and cannot leave on your own, or are elderly and need help to get down your front steps much less out of town, what exactly are you supposed to do???

Jayjen36, I think I love you, and I'm probably speaking for a lot of disabled elderly or "financially challenged" people when I say that. You see the whole picture too, and it may be getting close to over the limit of what the human spirit can handle. I absolutely cannot watch anymore.

God bless America - P L E A S E!!!!!!!!!

[EigthAv]

Everyone from the New Orleans mayor up to President Bush blew it.What frustrated me was the "let's immediatly jump up and down on Bush" attitudes.The New Orleans mayor should have been on the job and if had been,then I would agree with him when he was blasting away at Washington. What I meant when I was talking about the city having ample notice was that the mayor and everyone else in charge in New Orleans could have seen to it that a strong plan was in place. I regret some of my friday night posts. I was frustrated before I got on the board.I wanted to turn on the tv and see troops dealing with the homegrown terrorists.I wanted see people,especially children,the elderly,the sick people and the injured people being rescued.It looked like not much of anything was happening. We can impeach Bush,fire the mayor,impeach the NO governor and fire the FEMA director later.I might even join with you in calling for it. People need rescuing right now and every minute is vital. Bravo to the ballet instructer from Alabama who organized a small army of volunteers,including nurses,to go to Mississippi and do some serious rescuing.These people are operating at their own expense. The military is finally in there. People have died because of all the wasted time. It's sunday night and now the facts are coming in on who all "dropped the ball". As I said,I do regret some of my comments. I've been making donations to orginizations who are right there where the help is needed and making sure to donate in such a way that the donations will instantly be in the hands that need them. Even it's only a dollar,send it.If a thousand people all donate 10 bucks,that's $10,000. <!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->I know all about the side of New Orleans most tourists don't usually see.It's like the side of some of the resort islands most of us don't see.The businesses that thrive on tourism don't want us to the reality behind the glitter and glamour.As to the looters,the ones taking food and neccesities,cool. Looting tvs and other non neccesity items and destroying property just to have a good olde time destroying isn't "saving yourself". Snatching and hording way more than you need and refusing to share isn't "saving yourself". I don't care what colour you are. I live in a neighborhood that is majority white and in some ways,I felt safer several years ago living in trailer park that was majority black. I got along fine there.Maybe they didn't notice my skin tone. I never had anything at all stolen from me there and feared none of my neighbours.I didn't find it neccesary to make sure every little ole thing was always locked down.Trouble usually follows the money.I think if I am in a safer community now,how come I see houses with burglar bars on the windows and so many guard dog looking dogs.Never judge a book by it's cover,eh?

[Yzerbear19]

What I meant when I was talking about the city having ample notice was that the mayor and everyone else in charge in New Orleans could have seen to it that a strong plan was in place. I agree with you Mike. I think that the mayor of New Orleans dropped the ball just as much as Washington. They should have been working harder to get the people out of the city before it hit. They knew it was coming and could have made better plans of how to deal with it. They could have bussed those people out who couldn't afford to leave or found a way to get them out before it hit. They knew it was a bad hurricane, so more should have been done to get the people out before it hit.

Its so sad to see all the images though. It just kind of serves as a reminder that there is a higher power out there. I think as humans we tend to think we can control anything and can stop anything, even the water, but we can't. Technology and science have come a long ways, but it seems that the higher power (whatever you believe) always reminds us who is really has the power.

Yzerbear

[Davespectral]

Ya know Mike, every time I start to get mad at you, you make a post like that last one. That was fantastic. I'm honestly touched. Thank you for putting it together after a horrible, miserable week. You are right. It wasn't all Bush's fault.
Sincerely,
Dave :( :(

[Krista]

Well said Mike, I agree.

[moxie]

I agree with you Mike. I think that the mayor of New Orleans dropped the ball just as much as Washington.

The mayor of New Orleans ordered mandatory evacuation and designated a last-resort place (Superdome) where people could go if they could not leave. Many thousands heeded his order to leave, and many thousands went to the Superdome, where they did survive the storm. What more could he have done?

By all reports, the Superdome was OK for the first 24 hours after the storm. After that, because it was a federal emergency, it was up to the feds (FEMA) to make sure that the people in the Superdome (and, later, the convention center) had water, food and working toilet facilites. FEMA failed miserably. Helicopters should have been airlifting supplies to the designated rescue centers by Tuesday a.m., when it was known that the levees had broken and that these thousands would now be stuck there for many days.

These people followed the mayor's instructions and should have been helped ahead of those who chose to ignore orders and stay in their homes.

[manskater]

Moxie --- just as I thought people will start giving Bush a "Free" pass on his and his cabinet's ineptitude in dealing with a situation which they certainly knew could and would happen with a category 3 or higher hurricane. FEMAs director Brown and Homeland Security director Chertoff had nothing but excuses for the poor showing of the federal government. Considering that this government has not distributed enough funds for the individual states to provide for their own homeland security efforts I think the governor and the mayor did about all they could do in warning the people in those areas to get out and get to secure sites. The buck stops somewhere and it stops at the White House door.

[Sparks]

Manskater, thank you for bringing up those points. The buck DOES have to stop somewhere...
Homeland security budgets slashed for individual states, and Louisana is already one of the poorest states of all.

In times like these when America needed leadership, where was our leader?
The day after the hurricane, Bush was playing golf in Arizona and Condi was at a Broadway play in NYC. This may not be meaningful to some, but the symbolism speaks volumes to me.

Last year, Hurricane Charley directly hit my sister's community in Florida. Bush was on the ground immediately...why? Was it because the election was 2 1/2 months away, he wanted to beat J.Kerry there, Florida was a swing state, and Jeb was the governor?

[madison]

Sparks,
TWO BIG THUMBS up.

Please folks: part of the reason our country is in terrible straits imo, is because we do dilute the responsibility of the people who are elected,hired AND paid to be aware of these needs (such as the levee repair) that New Orleans had PRIOR to this disaster.

There were people in charge of this, AND Bush cut the budget to repair the sinking levee so he could send more money to Iraq.

I so hope Condi enjoys her $1000 shoes. I've never even seen shoes that expensive.<img border=0 src="http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/mad.gif" />



edited to add: Here is an example of an official doing his job: DO check out the date this article was first published.

<a href="http://www.channel3000.com/news/4921502/detail.html" target="_new">www.channel3000.com/news/4921502/detail.html</a>


The supt. of schools here is already planning for students from the hurricane area, as well as numerous organizations getting together to offer housing and supplies - long term.

That is doing your job. Not jawing in front of the camera.

[Krista]

from what I understand, bush cut that levee program because they weren't spending the money correctly, and since they weren't, then there wasn't a point in spending money there when it could be used elsewhere. I could be wrong.

And frankly who cares about Condi's 1000 dollar shoes. Do you not think that tons of politicians and movie stars that you watch their movies, have those shoes? If I had that much money, I would spend it however I pleased. Sheesh.

[manskater]

Maybe Condi will return the shoes and send the money to the Red Cross since she chose to shop and watch a Bway play while citizens of this country she represents were trying to survive in this horrific catastrophe. <img border=0 src="http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/eyes.gif" />

[Sparks]

from what I understand, bush cut that levee program because they weren't spending the money correctly, and since they weren't, then there wasn't a point in spending money there when it could be used elsewhere.

Correctly? Correctly according to whom?
The Louisana flood control authority and the Army Corps of Engineers have been working on strengthening the NO levee system for many years now...it was first begun by Roosevelt and the New Deal. Under G. Bush Sr. and Bill Clinton, they made a lot of progress. Then in 2001 (before 9/11) the money began drying up (excuse the pun). The funding just was not increased, it was slashed. Gov. Blanco, Senator Landreau, and others (Democrats, BTW) begged Congress to do something. The Republicans (remember they are in charge) said 'no' and described it as 'pork'. They are trying to undo the New Deal, piece by piece. The money was diverted to the war in Iraq. Flood control in the South is a long term process which was not as sexy as killing 150,000 Iraqi civilians, I guess. Partisian politics, perhaps? It looks like it to me...

[madison]

manskater wrote:

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Maybe Condi will return the shoes and send the money to the Red Cross since she chose to shop and watch a Bway play while citizens of this country she represents were trying to survive in this horrific catastrophe. <hr></blockquote>

Yes, of course, manskater. If you have been listening to the news, you might have known that. There were offers of assistance from many foreign countries that had to be answered and considered. I just saw on the news that the Netherlands has offered to send assistance with their levee experts. I hope we take it.

[EigthAv]

I stopped making excuses for anyobody,but I see excuses for the New Orleans mayor.He delayed.Not my words,the words of an African American man who was trapped in the flood zone. Why didn't the mayor get gung ho and take charge from day one?Now he is joining in with Jesse Jackson and playing race card just as loud as he can.It's an olde strategy.When you screw up,immediatly point your fingers at others and make sure you yell loud. I have a nephew who often uses the strategy.I watched the US Coast Guard performing rescues.It didn't look like they were flying around bypassing black victims in favour of the whites to me...........nope,that dog won't hunt this time. If Jackson is sincerely interested,get busy in the fund raising effort and/or roll your sleeves up and go save some people.Where were the state police? Maybe I'm spoiled living in a state where the governor and city mayors are are a bit more professional.

[Dave]

Then you have never been to Ferragamo then motherlode, you need to get on the board of a couple of oil companies! The kicker is the citizen brave enough to speak up who was removed from the store by security.

[Krista]

It was actually in New Orlean's plan to mobilize school buses to evacuate people. But they were not used for some reason.

[madison]

Dave wrote:
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>The kicker is the citizen brave enough to speak up who was removed from the store by security.<hr></blockquote>


Nice choice of words, "kicker". We need more 'kickers' in our country apparently.

[EigthAv]

The facts are in.The New Orleans mayor failed.Governor Blanco failed. MKF polly tix forum has already flunked Bush several years before the hurricane hit.Will you flunk the mayor and governor or make excuses?

[4dogknight]

8A: It is my opinion no excuses need to be made for the NO Mayor and the Gov of LA; the facts speak for themselves.

The buck stops at the Oval Office!

But if you and the rest of the apologists for Bushco want to believe the Rovian version of the chain of events, that's your prerogative. I prefer to believe in the truth.

4dk

[manskater]

Ah yes the truth according to Bush.<img border=0 src="http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/eyes.gif" />

[Krista]

Well, bottom line is that people who didn't like it, won't have to have Bush another term(even Im thankful for that), and now we can find out what went wrong so this doesn't happen again.

On another note, did anyone else hear that Celine Dion donated 1million? That was just awesome.

[JerryStopher]

www.selltheranch.com/ (http://www.selltheranch.com/)

[Krista]

interesting link Jerry lol

[EigthAv]

I'm not getting information from Bush. So far,we have never chatted.I've listened to a variety of people...... other mayors,a Washington State leiislator,others who seemed to have no reason to be biased.This isn't about a hurricane anyway.If Bush had been there from day one with 25,000 Army soldiers,ya'll could finds ways to spin it into anti-Bushville. You would be saying he shouldn't have taken over.NBC featured some rap "artist" with the dude from Wayne's World who was blasting away at Bush and claiming he ordered the military to shoot African Americans.People want the military and they don't want want them.The US Army was delivering food and water to the hippies at Woodstock in the midst of a barrage of anti-military singing and chanting.<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->Compare the Mobile situation to the New Orleans situation.Alabama Governor Bob Riley was right on top of things as was Mobile's mayor.This is why relief was immediate.Blanco was indecisive. Bush could've acted faster..........now ya'll can resume the Bush Bash Fest.

[Krista]

well said Mike.

[madison]

Oh, brother<img border=0 src="http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/eyes.gif" />

[probativev]

Thing is, the failure and this utter disaster is not just Bush's fault or the Fed's fault. The collective government from every level on down are at fault. Democrats, Republicans, they're ALL at fault.

I have to say I'm pretty turned off by Hillary Clinton being opportunistic and using this disaster to snatch the spotlight calling for review of what went wrong, etc. I didn't see her or any other Democrats screaming up and down about getting help last Monday or Tuesday. I didn't see a single Democrat heading down there to see what the hell was going on (but I did see Harry Connick Jr., if he got down there why didn't any one from Congress or Senate? or Dick Cheney for that matter.). I didn't See Howard Dean (not a sitting governor elsewhere with other priorities anymore) or Bill Frist (hey Congress is not in session now) packing up and heeding the calls for doctor volunteers. All I saw was nincompoop Michael Brown denying that anything was going wrong as of last Tuesday and Wednesday and patting himself on the back for a job well done. And then I saw a hysterical mayor of New Orleans who couldn't handle the situation (granted his hysteria got people off their asses), and a mostly silent LA governor doing God only knows what while this thing unfolded.

I know many of you want to blame Bush, and he most certainly deserves it. But don't stop just there. The entire collective should be held accountable. No one cared until all went to hell. Does make you lose total faith in all those so-called leaders.

[Baylor]

1.) Bush had to personally call Blanco and ask her to declare a state of emergency the Sat before Katrina hit.

2.) Over 200 + buses sat idle in parking lots in NO that could have been used to transport those who couldnt get out of the city to places like Houston. Nagin did not implement his cities disaster plan - which clearly called for the use of school and municipal buses to evacuate those without their own transportation. Now obviously, some would still have chosen to stay- as evidenced by those who still don't want to leave, but how many people could have been saved if that simple step - which was in NOLA's emergency plan -- been taken.

3.) The kicker. The Red Cross had food, water, blankets and hygiene supplies prepositioned and ready to take into the Superdome and NOLA in general immediately after the storm. They asked permission every day since last Monday to do so. Permission was denied. Who denied them? BLANCO. The State of LA Homeland Security Department (every state and major city has their own) denied them entrance because they thought it would encourage people to stay in the city. Then they complained about the lack of those very resources all week long. Unreal This has been confirmed by the Red Cross Website and reported by Major Garrett
www.redcross.org/faq/0,10...24,00.html (http://www.redcross.org/faq/0,1096,0_682_4524,00.html)

Now how Nagin and Blanco's poor decisions are Bush's fault are beyond me. This is not to say that Bush hasn't also made mistakes, but the biggest two have been made by the good ole governor and mayor. (Personally, I think the mayor made the absolute gravest mistake of all that resulted in the most preventable loss of life).

[madison]

<a href="http://news.search.yahoo.com/news/search?p=halliburton+katrina&rs=0" target="_new">news.search.yahoo.com/news/search?p=halliburton+katrina&rs=0</a>

A)People in this country willing to put up with this crap really do deserve it.

B)Baylor, if you want to believe whatever the Red Cross says, so be it. Having lived through a natural disaster with their 'aid' made me think twice about the million dollar annual salary paid to their CEO. No thanks.

The rest of your post is speculation.


eta:

<a href="http://205.188.130.53/ngm/0410/feature5/index.html" target="_new">205.188.130.53/ngm/0410/feature5/index.html</a>


FROM THAT PARAGON OF LIBERAL BIAS: NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC magazine:

"GONE WITH THE WATER"

"Thousands drowned in the murky brew that was soon contaminated by sewage and industrial waste. Thousands more who survived the flood later perished from dehydration and disease as they waited to be rescued. It took two months to pump the city dry, and by then the Big Easy was buried under a blanket of putrid sediment, a million people were homeless, and 50,000 were dead. It was the worst natural disaster in the history of the United States.

When did this calamity happen? It hasn't—yet. But the doomsday scenario is not far-fetched. The Federal Emergency Management Agency lists a hurricane strike on New Orleans as one of the most dire threats to the nation, up there with a large earthquake in California or a terrorist attack on New York City. Even the Red Cross no longer opens hurricane shelters in the city, claiming the risk to its workers is too great."

[madison]

Alexa,
The Governor of Wisconsin sent whatever National Guard troops we had left on Wednesday morning (by air). It was unprecedented, but he saw the disaster unfolding. He decided not to wait. I've already posted this earlier, so if you want the link it will be elsewhere in this thread.

[madison]

"Get a degree in homeland security online. Topics include global terrorism, weapons of mass destruction, national security, emergency management and law enforcement. Financial aid available.
www.apu.apus.edu"


Anyone interested in a new career, or perhaps we could recommend that some of our leaders or FEMA reps enroll. So easy, they can be trained in the comfort of their own air-conditioned DC office.

[Terri]

Three people died last Sunday night on one of those school buses that have no air conditioning. I can imagine the outrage that would have ensued if citizens had been required to evacuate by school bus and died.

If Jackson is sincerely interested,get busy in the fund raising effort and/or roll your sleeves up and go save some people.

Jackson rescued the students at Xavier University who had been trapped there for a week.

Compare the Mobile situation to the New Orleans situation.

Compare it how? Mobile isn't under water, New Orleans is. The situations aren't even comparable.

If New Orleans could afford to build a super dome,throw a party every night and establish a reputation for lavish eating and drinking,they could have also built a more secure water wall.

Give me a break. New Orleans isn't the only city with a large sports arean. It's not exactly new or in the best shape. And since when does New Orleans throw a party every night? I fail to see how having a reputation for good food and liking a few drinks is relevant to this discussion.

[Krista]

B)Baylor, if you want to believe whatever the Red Cross says, so be it. Having lived through a natural disaster with their 'aid' made me think twice about the million dollar annual salary paid to their CEO. No thanks.

I have to agree with you there motherlode. My brother(while filming for the evil FEMA) told me that the national red cross were a load of crap. They showed up and put on a good show while Bush was visiting last year in Florida, then packed up and left. The local red cross places aren't bad. Most of those people are helpful, but the higher ups, etc, suck. to put it plainly.

[madison]

DMBchic,
My dad first told me about the Red Cross 50 years ago - or about ten years after WW2. They haven't changed - and then I saw it with my own eyes when they sold sandwiches and drinks at the local High School while we cleaned up after our F4 tornado and tried to restore people's lives.

I have no love lost for them.

But Oh, the Salvation Army was there - never asking a dime. For years afterward, some would put gold kueggerands (I don't know how to spell it) in the Salvation Army bell ringers buckets every Christmas. Guess they knew, too.

[dollyl]

Actually Baylor's comments are fact in regards to the Mayor and the Govenor. President Bush did call Governor Blanco prior to Katrina hitting the state to declare a State of Emergency. She was indecisive and did not make the decision. Why didn't the Governor get her own states National Guard down there, declare a State of Emergency so the Federal troops could come in. That is the order of things. The Federal Government cannot just come in and take over. It is against state rights. Instead the people of NO were told to go to the Superdome and take their own food and blankets with no means to get there. There were buses that were supposed to be used for evacuation of the people that did not have transportation to get out. They sit in water right now. Each state does have it's own Department of Home Land Security. Now according to people here the Red Cross is too blame as well.
In my own state and city we also have a Mickey Mouse government that to be honest if this happened in our city it would have the same results. We wouldn't have a hurricane but there is a large chemical plant near by. I don't know my city's evaucation plan. How many of you know yours. Everything is burried under so much red tape it is next to impossible to get anything done in a quick fashion. That is why it is important to have a working state & local government. When we place our fate in the hands of government we could have the same results. It is important to know what they are doing and not doing. I work for a federally funded agency and have the time you are spending looking for who does what, figuring out where to find the proper form to fill out to get things moving and waiting for the answer. Who suffers from all this, the very people we are paid to serve. I myself am taking a look at what I can do for my family and myself if in the event we have a disater in our city. I am not depending on anyone but myself because others do let you down. I am off my soap box now. I know nothing I said will change anybody's mind but it made me feel better.

Janet

Janet

[probativev]

Man, now I feel really stupid for donating my money to the Red Cross for the hurricane disaster relief. But they got so much donation! Some of it MUST be going to the aid, does it?

[madison]

Yes, Alexa,
I do believe some goes to disaster relief. What portion I don't know.<img border=0 src="http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/frown.gif" />

[madison]

Why didn't the Governor get her own states National Guard down there,

Well, dolly,
I think the majority of National Guard are off in Iraq, especially down south, but also here in Wisconsin - that's why Gov. Doyle could only send 500 troops. He did so w/o any autorization at all. He saw the disaster and responded. We are not a military powerhouse up here like some states are.

The second thing is that Katrina was a 'shape-shifter.' At one time she was down-graded to a tropical storm (near Florida?) and then a category 2 then a 4+, etc. etc. Very confusing.

To really understand the collosal mishandling of the storm, please read the link to NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC I have listed above.

FEMA knew. The article was written in October 2004.

I'm glad you feel better about posting your thoughts. Everybody is entitled to their opinion.

[dollyl]

motherlode02, We are neighbors from across the lake.
I read the article that you refered to in your post. The state government officials were also aware of that hypothecial that became a reality. The state hired a consultant to review their evacuation plan back in 2002 I think. They basically told them the same thing plus where the holes were in their plan. I don't think they took it seriously. That happens alot in government, spend our tax dollars on expensive consults and do nothing about it. So my question is with the local and state government armed with this knowledge, having been warned that a catagory 5 hurricane is heading towards them, knowing that their levee could only tolerate a catagory 3, did they not declare a state of emergency, when asked too days before it hit help get those poor people out of harms way? I think everyone made horrible judgements in regards to this disaster. But it still starts at the local & state level. That is the law. Once the governor did call a state of emergency and the miltary came in and all the extra National Guards from around the states the people got help quickly. The news has stated that the Red Cross was kept from coming in by the state Homeland Security because they didn't want the people to have a reason to stay.
Louisana has about 6000- 8000 National Guard troops left in their state. I saw an interview on TV with them stating they were prepared to go when they got the word. Granted that is not enough to keep control but if the State of Emergency had been called then other states can come into help along with the military. Which I think is what happened.
Also there is an interesting article today in the Washington Post about the fact that Louisana has gotten the most money from the fed's out of any state to address the situation with the levee. This money was given to Army Corps of Engineers. The money wasn't spent on what it was intended for. That is pretty typical in cities and states, get money for let's say the police department. What do they do, use the money for their cell phone bills, expense accounts as they had to take trips to the sister city abroad, and cut the police department. That is what has happened in my city anyway.
I just know when it comes to keeping my family protected and making things happen in my life, the only one I can count on is myself. Otherwise I will be a victum just waiting to happen.
Sorry for rambling on. I guess I did pay attention in my government & civics classes. lol

Janet

[elliebea]

Actually Baylor's comments are fact in regards to the Mayor and the Govenor.

Yes - these are the current official GOP talking points. It's been upgraded from 'blame the victims,' to 'blame the Democrats' or 'locals.'

President Bush did call Governor Blanco prior to Katrina hitting the state to declare a State of Emergency. She was indecisive and did not make the decision. Why didn't the Governor get her own states National Guard down there, declare a State of Emergency so the Federal troops could come in.

She did. On August 26th, prior to anything Bush did or said:
gov.louisiana.gov/2005%20%20proclamations/48pro2005-Emergency-HurricaneKatrina.pdf (http://gov.louisiana.gov/2005%20%20proclamations/48pro2005-Emergency-HurricaneKatrina.pdf)

Then on the 28th, she formally requested federal aid.
gov.louisiana.gov/Disaster%20Relief%20Request.pdf (http://gov.louisiana.gov/Disaster%20Relief%20Request.pdf)

Bush issued the
Statement on Federal Emergency Assistance for Louisiana (http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/08/20050827-1.html)
on the 27th, thereby implicitly declaring it to be an Incident of National Significance (by virture of this clause:

"ALL PRESIDENTIALLY DECLARED DISASTERS AND EMERGENCIES UNDER THE STAFFORD ACT ARE CONSIDERED INCIDENTS OF NATIONAL SIGNIFICANCE." (NRP, 7)

in the
National Response Plan (http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/interapp/editorial/editorial_0566.xml)
which makes this:

The Federal Government cannot just come in and take over. It is against state rights.

completely false.

[elliebea]

Why FEMA Was Missing in Action (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-fema5sep05,1,6530955.story?coll=la-headlines-nation)
Most of the agency's preparedness budget and focus are related to terrorism, not disasters.
By Peter G. Gosselin and Alan C. Miller

September 5, 2005

WASHINGTON - While the federal government has spent much of the last quarter-century trimming the safety nets it provides Americans, it has dramatically expanded its promise of protection in one area - disaster.

Since the 1970s, Washington has emerged as the insurer of last resort against floods, fires, earthquakes and - after 2001 - terrorist attacks.

But the government's stumbling response to the storm that devastated the nation's Gulf Coast reveals that the federal agency singularly most responsible for making good on Washington's expanded promise has been hobbled by cutbacks and a bureaucratic downgrading.

The Federal Emergency Management Agency once speedily delivered food, water, shelter and medical care to disaster areas, and paid to quickly rebuild damaged roads and schools and get businesses and people back on their feet. Like a commercial insurance firm setting safety standards to prevent future problems, it also underwrote efforts to get cities and states to reduce risks ahead of time and plan for what they would do if calamity struck.

But in the aftermath of the Sept. 11 attacks, FEMA lost its Cabinet-level status as it was folded into the giant new Department of Homeland Security. And in recent years it has suffered budget cuts, the elimination or reduction of key programs and an exodus of experienced staffers.

The agency's core budget, which includes disaster preparedness and mitigation, has been cut each year since it was absorbed by the Homeland Security Department in 2003. Depending on what the final numbers end up being for next fiscal year, the cuts will have been between about 2% and 18%.

The agency's staff has been reduced by 500 positions to 4,735. Among the results, FEMA has had to cut one of its three emergency management teams, which are charged with overseeing relief efforts in a disaster. Where it once had "red," "white" and "blue" teams, it now has only red and white.

Three out of every four dollars the agency provides in local preparedness and first-responder grants go to terrorism-related activities, even though a recent Government Accountability Office report quotes local officials as saying what they really need is money to prepare for natural disasters and accidents.

"They've taken emergency management away from the emergency managers," complained Morrie Goodman, who was FEMA's chief spokesman during the Clinton administration. "These operations are being run by people who are amateurs at what they are doing."

Richard W. Krimm, a former senior FEMA official for several administrations, agreed. "It was a terrible mistake to take disaster response and recovery … and disaster preparedness and mitigation, and put them in Homeland Security," he said.

Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff acknowledged in interviews Sunday that Washington was insufficiently prepared for the hurricane that laid waste to New Orleans and surrounding areas. But he defended its performance by arguing that the size of the storm was beyond anything his department could have anticipated and that primary responsibility for handling emergencies rested with state and local, not federal, officials.

"Before this happened, I said … we need to build a preparedness capacity going forward," Chertoff told NBC's "Meet the Press." He added that that was something "we have not yet succeeded in doing."

Under the law, Chertoff said, state and local officials must direct initial emergency operations. "The federal government comes in and supports those officials," he said.

Chertoff's remarks, which echoed earlier statements by President Bush, prompted withering rebukes both from former senior FEMA staffers and outside experts.

"They can't do that," former agency chief of staff Jane Bullock said of Bush administration efforts to shift responsibility away from Washington. "The moment the president declared a federal disaster, it became a federal responsibility…. The federal government took ownership over the response," she said. Bush declared a disaster in Louisiana and Mississippi when the storm hit a week ago.

"What's awe-inspiring here is how many federal officials didn't issue any orders," said Paul C. Light, an authority on government operations at New York University.

Evidence of confusion extended beyond FEMA and the Homeland Security Department on Sunday.

Health and Human Services Secretary Mike Leavitt said that conditions in New Orleans and elsewhere could quickly escalate into a major public health crisis. But asked whether his agency had dispatched teams in advance of the storm and flooding, Leavitt answered, "No."

"None of these teams were pre-positioned," he told CNN's "Late Edition." "We're having to organize them … as we go."

Such an ad hoc approach might not have surprised Americans until recent decades because the federal government was thought to have few responsibilities for disaster relief, and what duties it did have were mostly delegated to the American Red Cross.


------
Lt. Commander Sean Kelly of Northern Command:

"Northcom started planning before the storm even hit. We were ready when it hit Florida, because, as you remember, it hit the bottom part of Florida, and then we were planning once it was pointed towards the Gulf Coast.

"So, what we did, we activated what we call 'defense coordinating officers' to work with the states to say, 'OK, what do you think you will need?' And we set up staging bases that could be started.

"We had the USS Bataan sailing almost behind the hurricane so once the hurricane made landfall, its search and rescue helicopters could be available almost immediately So, we had things ready.

"The only caveat is: we have to wait until the president authorizes us to do so. The laws of the United States say that the military can't just act in this fashion; we have to wait for the president to give us permission."

[Sorry - misplaced the link.)


-----------
National Guard Delay Likely to Be Examined (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/03/AR2005090300248.html)
By SHARON THEIMER
The Associated Press

WASHINGTON -- Several states ready and willing to send National Guard troops to the rescue in hurricane-ravaged New Orleans didn't get the go-ahead until days after the storm struck _ a delay nearly certain to be investigated by Congress.

New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson offered Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco help from his state's National Guard on Sunday, the day before Hurricane Katrina hit Louisiana. Blanco accepted, but paperwork needed to get the troops en route didn't come from Washington until late Thursday.

---------

Why FEMA failed (http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2005/09/07/fema/print.html)

Ideologically opposed to a strong federal role in disaster relief and obsessed with terrorism, the Bush administration let a once-admired agency fall apart.
- - - - - - - - - - - -
By Farhad Manjoo
September 7, 2005

Sept. 7, 2005 | Days before Hurricane Katrina struck the Gulf Coast, the city of Chicago drew up a list of resources it was willing to make available for relief efforts in areas that might be hit by the storm. Chicago told the Federal Emergency Management Agency that in the event of disaster, it could spare more than 100 Chicago police officers, 36 Fire Department personnel, eight emergency medical experts, more than 130 staff from Chicago's Department of Public Health, 140 staff from the Department of Streets & Sanitation, dozens of trucks and two boats. These teams, Chicago Mayor Richard Daley told federal officials, could work in affected areas independently, bringing their own food, water and other supplies with them. But FEMA apparently wasn't interested. Despite the host of resources Chicago offered, and despite the televised lack of resources in New Orleans, as of late last week, FEMA had requested only one thing from Chicago -- a single tanker truck. "I was shocked," Daley said at a news conference on Friday. "We are ready to provide considerably more help than they have requested. We are just waiting for a call."

Daley wasn't the only generous donor to be rebuffed. Throughout last week, various local and state governments, corporations and nonprofit organizations across the nation attempted to help in the relief effort, only to be snubbed by federal officials -- officials who were themselves providing precious little aid to those in need. Citing security concerns, the Department of Homeland Security barred the American Red Cross from entering New Orleans with food. Five hundred Floridian airboaters were ready to rescue people stranded in inundated homes, but FEMA turned them down. Twenty sheriff's deputies from Loudoun County, Va., suffered a similar fate. And Aaron Broussard, the president of Jefferson Parish, La., said on "Meet the Press" on Sunday that FEMA declined to let him accept three tanker trucks of water donated by Wal-Mart, as well as 1,000 gallons of diesel fuel stored in a Coast Guard vessel docked in his district.

During the 1990s, FEMA was routinely praised as one of the best-functioning federal agencies. Its response to the Midwestern floods of 1993, the Northridge earthquake of 1994, and 1995's Oklahoma City terrorist attack are considered models of emergency response. By contrast, its performance during Katrina is almost universally acknowledged to have been abysmally poor. At first, FEMA's post-Katrina failure appears baffling: What happened to the once-great FEMA? But George Haddow, who served as the deputy chief of staff at FEMA under James Lee Witt, Bill Clinton's FEMA director, thinks that FEMA's current flaws are all too understandable -- and are a direct consequence of the Bush administration's decision to pull the federal government out of the natural disaster-relief business and turn over more power to state and local officials.

Indeed, the White House's new response to the political disaster prompted by Katrina -- one in which officials are attempting to blame authorities in Louisiana, rather than in Washington, for the slow aid -- underscores the Bush philosophy. According to Haddow, instead of working with local officials to try to minimize the impacts of an impending storm, the White House has decided its best strategy is to keep its distance from people on the ground. That way if anything goes wrong, the White House can "attack, attack, attack."

Bush visit halts food delivery (http://www.nola.com/weblogs/print.ssf?/mtlogs/nola_Times-Picayune/archives/print076556.html)
Three tons of food ready for delivery by air to refugees in St. Bernard Parish and on Algiers Point sat on the Crescent City Connection bridge Friday afternoon as air traffic was halted because of President Bush's visit to New Orleans, officials said.

The provisions, secured by U.S. Rep. Charlie Melancon, D-Napoleonville, and state Agriculture Commissioner Bob Odom, baked in the afternoon sun as Bush surveyed damage across southeast Louisiana five days after Katrina made landfall as a Category 4 storm, said Melancon's chief of staff, Casey O'Shea.

"We had arrangements to airlift food by helicopter to these folks, and now the food is sitting in trucks because they won't let helicopters fly," O'Shea said Friday afternoon.

The food was expected to be in the hands of storm survivors after the president left the devastated region Friday night, he said.

--------
Mayor ready for armed standoff with FEMA
WWLTV.com

3:32 P.M. Ben Morris, Slidell mayor: We are still hampered by some of the most stupid, idiotic regulations by FEMA. They have turned away generators, we've heard that they've gone around seizing equipment from our contractors. If they do so, they'd better be armed because I'll be damned if I'm going to let them deprive our citizens. I'm pissed off, and tired of this horse$#@@.

-----------

Frustrated: Fire crews to hand out fliers for FEMA (http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci_3004197)

ATLANTA - Not long after some 1,000 firefighters sat down for eight hours of training, the whispering began: "What are we doing here?"
As New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin pleaded on national television for firefighters - his own are exhausted after working around the clock for a week - a battalion of highly trained men and women sat idle Sunday in a muggy Sheraton Hotel conference room in Atlanta.
Many of the firefighters, assembled from Utah and throughout the United States by the Federal Emergency Management Agency, thought they were going to be deployed as emergency workers.
Instead, they have learned they are going to be community-relations officers for FEMA, shuffled throughout the Gulf Coast region to disseminate fliers and a phone number: 1-800-621-FEMA.
On Monday, some firefighters stuck in the staging area at the Sheraton peeled off their FEMA-issued shirts and stuffed them in backpacks, saying they refuse to represent the federal agency.
Federal officials are unapologetic.
. . .
Firefighters say they want to brave the heat, the debris-littered roads, the poisonous cottonmouth snakes and fire ants and travel into pockets of Louisiana where many people have yet to receive emergency aid.
But as specific orders began arriving to the firefighters in Atlanta, a team of 50 Monday morning quickly was ushered onto a flight headed for Louisiana. The crew's first assignment: to stand beside President Bush as he tours devastated areas.

[manskater]

There have been volunteers trying to come into the disaster area to help anyway they can and are turned away. That is a fact. There are 600 firemen from the Northeast, I think primarily NY who came to NO to help with the rescue and were told to wait for FEMA's order. They are still waiting and what are they forced to do? Read books , distribute pamphlets for FEMA and pose with Bush for photo-ops. Bush takes every and I mean every opportunity for a photo-op. He will never take any accountability for mistakes made by this White House. I'm assuming he is still looking for mistakes he has made from the last press conference where he was asked what mistakes have you made?<img border=0 src="http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/eyes.gif" />

I'm sure the Bi-partisan committee ,to investigate this tragedy, that Hastert and Frist announced yesterday will surely investigate the ineptitude of the Fed government?<img border=0 src="http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/eyes.gif" /> Oh wait did I say bi-partisan??? These two had not even contacted the Dems about this so called bi-partisan committee.<img border=0 src="http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/eyes.gif" />

[Baylor]

The Salvation Army is also saying that the state of Louisiana also prevented them from entering the NOLA from the Monday after the storm passed as well. Are they lying too?

I'm not saying the Red Cross is perfect - there were certainly issues with them in some fires in San Diego back in 2001 (not the huge wildfires of 2003), but why would the President lie? She has been seen on camera saying that the State of LA refused them entrance and the Salvation Army is confirming this as well.

I guess the real problem is that this little fact doesn't play too well to the Blame Bush business.

[Baylor]

Alexa- yes the Red Cross is helping lots of people affected - they have just been prevented from being in NOLA proper. They are all over the rest of the state and Mississippi and Alabama as well. They are also saying when you donate you can say that you only want the money to go to Hurricane Relief and they won't spend it on anything else.

Terri77 - I agree, there would be alot of outrage if people died on those school buses. But does that mean they shouldn't have attempted their use? I daresay that had they used them the weekend before the storm when people hadn't been out in the elements, that the risk of someone dying on them would be much less. It was after all the disaster plan of the city of NOLA.

[madison]

Baylor,
Did you read the NG article I posted? FEMA had the game plan, so to speak, and it was clear from reading it that they knew what a disaster this would be.
And so it happened. As far as Bush's negligence, or that of his officials, time will tell. There are going to be investigations, and they are talking about re-instating the same group of people who formed the 9/11 committee.
I say, GOOD FOR THEM!

[manskater]

<a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9266986/" target="_new">www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9266986/</a>
FEMA chief relieved of Katrina duties
Move follows controversy over Brown’s qualifications, agency’s response

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>“Other challenges and threats remain around the world,” and Brown is needed to prepare for those, Chertoff said at a news conference in Baton Rouge.<hr></blockquote>

God help us if some other catastrophe happens under Brown's watch.<img border=0 src="http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/eyes.gif" />

[manskater]

<a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9282533/" target="_new">www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9282533/</a>
Firms with Bush ties snag Katrina deals
White House connections attract renewed attention from watchdog groups

Well here is Iraq all over again. When is someone going to have the guts to stop the abuse of thiis White House and co.

[4dogknight]

Today on "Meet the Press" one of the guests was New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin.
Here (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9240461/) is the url for the transcript of the today's program. Mayor Nagin was the first guest followed by John Barry (author) and Dr. Ivor van Heerden (formerly at the LSU Hurricane Center).

4dk - Oh yeah, Arlen Specter was also a guest and talked about the upcoming senate confirmation hearings for Supreme Court Chief Justice. He was the final guest today.

[youngatheart]

At least two major corporate clients of lobbyist Joe Allbaugh, President George W. Bush's former campaign manager and a former head of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, have already been tapped to start recovery work along the battered Gulf Coast.One is Shaw Group Inc. and the other is Halliburton Co. subsidiary Kellogg Brown and Root. Vice President Dick Cheney is a former head of Halliburton.

manskater, FWIW, Jim Bernhard, the head of Shaw Group Inc., is the current chairman of the Louisiana Democratic Party.
www.theind.com/political2...1975237869 (http://www.theind.com/political2.asp?CID=-1975237869)

Another Shaw executive was Governor Blanco's campaign manager.

[probativev]

Well, Idiot Brown is now gone. Good riddance.

[manskater]

Youngatheart1 - interesting info however the Shaw Group has not overbilled, lost money and exploited their situation in Iraq.

[JerryStopher]

Another possible point for Y@H1: being called "Democrat" does not necessarily make a person an opponent of the Bushes. While this may not be true wherever you live, it certainly is true here in Texas, and next door in Louisiana.

Fact is, at least in these two Southern States, it's hard to find a dime's worth o' difference betwixt the two parties. Candidates sometimes wander back and forth between labels, according to the circumstances of the time.

[madison]

Jerry,
That wouldn't have anything to do with whose got the money, would it?<img border=0 src="http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/indifferent.gif" />

[Krista]

Speaking of those who have money, this congressman used the national guard to go get his personal belongings and check on his property, while there were people still waiting on rooftops to be evacuated. :|

www.abcnews.go.com/US/Hur...495&page=1 (http://www.abcnews.go.com/US/HurricaneKatrina/story?id=1123495&page=1)

[JerryStopher]

Motherlode asked the musical question, That wouldn't have anything to do with who's got the money, would it? The realpolitik here in Texas, and I suppose in other places, is verry simple: you run as a Democrat to get elected. True that some can win as Repugnicans, but not many, not often.

Examples follow:

Jim Mehaffy, never known to be involved in politics, decided to run for judge of the 58th District Court. He filed in the Democratic Primary. But, given the fact that he was on the Vestry of St Mark's, he must be a Repugnican. Democrats do not get on the Vestry there!

Thing is, if Jim had filed in the R primary, someone else would have filed as D, and would have won because of all the straight-party voting. (By the way, for those who don't know the Texas system, District Court positions are elected on a countywide basis. If Jim coulda run here in Precinct 1, he mighta had a better chance on the R slate.)

So: now that Jim is retiring (to return to the more-lucrative Private Practice), Bob Wortham wants the job.

Bob was US Attorney under Ronnie Ray-gun, and everybody knows he is active in the R party. But he has announced as a Democrat. Again, it's because if he ran as R, he would lose in November to some nother lawyer who would run as D.

By the way, when Bob was US Attorney, the Women's Clinic was burned down, and the Fire Department somehow failed to save any of it. (I know the Beaumont FD: they saved most of my house when it burned, including valuable antiques. I'm sure they could at least have saved some portion of the Women's Clinic.)

Then the FD said it was not arson, and refused to investigate. So, asked if he would launch a federal investigation into whether it might have been arson after all, Bob said he didn't think it mattered, because "when it burned, it stopped 'em from killing babies." Sounds like a Repugnican line to me, and ... now he wants to be a State District Judge.

So: what we have here is Democrats in Name Only, who push the Repugnican Agenda.

Me, I'm in the Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party, and I am pretty darn lonesome ...

[madison]

Jerry,
That sounds pretty 'disingenuous' to me. I don't think we should shape our views around a party, but apparently Texas does it differently. No wonder people are confused when they vote.
My only acquaintances in texas are dyed-in-the-wool Bushocrats. Clearer there than here I guess.

[EigthAv]

What Jerry is saying about Texas was also true in Alabama until our 1986 elections.We elected our 1st Republican governor since reconstruction in 1986.After that,the repos in demo costumes and masks switched back over.Senator Shelby is one of them.I don't fault him for the demo imitation because as Jerry says about certain parts of his homestate,in Alabama,before 86,only Bill Dickinson could take off the demo mask and hope to go to Warshington. <!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->The "dixiecrats",holdovers from the Ayatollah Wallace regime,didn't go down withoput a dirty fight.Some of them are still around waiting for a new saviour.