Has Pat Robertson gone off the deep end?

[manskater]

I thought he was pretty far off base on a lot of issues but advocating the assasination of a world leader is way out there. And this man calls himself a Christian? Is this the type of support this president wraps himself around. I've yet to see him make a statement about Robertson's comment.<img border=0 src="http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/eyes.gif" />

[MKGrace]

He sounds like a real fruit loop. No wonder Bush likes him.

[Jayjen36]

Umm, what did he say exactly? I went looking for a comment like that and only found a story about the comment he made back in June '04 on Hardball,saying that he "preferred an assassination approach" to Saddam Hussein, rather than the war.

Either way, although it doesn't really fit with the picture of a minister, but I'd have to say with Robertson, I'm not all that surprised.

[manskater]

<a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9047102/" target="_new">www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9047102/</a>
Venezuela reacts to Robertson statement Televangelist wants Chavez killed; White House calls idea ‘inappropriate’

Jayjen -- here is link to an article concerning what Robertson said. Looney tunes comes to mind.

[madison]

Well,
I have to wonder if some senility has played a role here. The guy has a law degree from Yale, and must know that the government strictly and legally forbids assassination of world leaders after the Chile/August Pinochet fiasco in the 1970s.

At any rate, he needs to be quiet.

[Jayjen36]

I don't know. Pat Robertson has been making comments like that for a very long time. There were earlier comments about the GLTB community and liberals being responsible for the attacks on 9/11, and the terrible storms that hit the south east a few years back. Although to be fair so did Jerry Faldwell and many others of that ilk. And according to the article he has also said:

...that feminism encourages women to “kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians

>: kill their children.......... huh???
:hat practice witchcraft......... okee dokee:D !!
:\ destroy capitalism........... what???
0] become lesbians............ I have no idea....huh?

Amazing. It's remarkable that an adult supposedly lucid person could say things like that and still have the massive following that he does. I used to somewhat accept this guy a long long long time ago, back in my mainstream church days. I can't believe that I ever did now. What is scary is that there are actually people who will only get their news from the 700 Club. I wonder just how many of his and Jerry's and etc. followers actually agree with most of the things that they say?

[Krista]

I find it funny that anyone is surprised that Robertson is a nutter lol.

[IzzyS]

It actually *did* surprise me, even though I've known he was a nutter since the '80s. This comment should be enough to pull his wretched face off the airways for good, but somehow talking about assassinating a South American president doesn't get the same attention that it would if he said the same thing about a North American one. Maybe South Americans aren't human in his eyes???

[madison]

Robertson and Falwell - the only good thing about them is that they are old, and soon nature will take its course.

Terrible to say, but they are both self-serving 'Christians.'

[IzzyS]

He changed his mind--he said that what he *really* meant was "kidnapping," not murder.

Whew! That's a relief!

[Jayjen36]

Robertson and Falwell - the only good thing about them is that they are old, and soon nature will take its course.

Ah, but through Heritage University and the like they are working feverously to replicate themselves. When ever I come across TBN or CBN I always see them talking about the newest crop of "Christian warriors" being prepared to fight against "the liberals" and continue their cultural warfare. I believe that their replacements will likely be much worse unfortunately. And just as unfortunately they'll probably have a lot more followers.

[EigthAv]

What is scary is that there are actually people who will only get their news from the 700 Club.
<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->I agree. The propaganda is obvious.I also worry about people who tune their minds to nothing but the tabloids and tabloid tv. The "MTV Generation" is another scary thought.People should use their televisions and not become slaves to them.The power of television propaganda is a notion that has caught on all over the World.<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->Any thoughts on this Venezeula potentate??? I've listened to people talk about him and the opinions seem to range from "Hitlerish" to Saint.I hear he is buddy-buddie with Castro.:eek Does this mean that 30 years from now American presidential contenders will be promising to do something about him.Something potentate wanna bees can learn from Castro is longevity.

[Puce]

i don't know, MTV is pretty fair when reporting on politics. it's not their fault that more democrats and liberals are willing to "lower" themseves to talk to them. perhaps the republicans and conservatives don't realize how many young people they could reach if they would use MTV more?

as for robertson, if it were a liberal democrat saying things as controversial, i'm sure they'd have the plug pulled long ago. :rolleyes

[EigthAv]

Puce,"they" can't pull the plug. Amendment I.Freedom of speech.You can get on a loud speaker and bark out all sorts of venom in the USA."They" tried to take Castro out a time or two.I think Big Bush and Little Bush have both been targets of blotched assasination attempts. As I said,I agree that Robertson is fanatical.Does he echo or does he generate??? Is Ozzy Osbourne liberal enough for you? If you listen too close to Black Sabbath lyrics,as well as some of Osbourne's solo work,you will hear some rather scary suggestions.........for instance,"Would you like to see the Pope at the end of a rope......Do you think he's a fool?". I'm glad the repos don't cowtow to MTV very much.I consider it as dangerous as CBN and Springer.I wish I had the suicide statistics for longterm MTVers. I'll almost bet you they are higher than the National average.

[Jayjen36]

Mike, I'm never sure if you're serious in your posts, so I'll just say you are and I guess look goofy if you aren't:b .

It's true that a lot of musicians have controversial lyrics that would make the things that Robertson says look almost reasonable, but really do YOU take what Ozzy says seriously?? Even he doesn't! No doubt there are a few fifteen year old kids who do but I doubt very seriously that anyone looks to Ozzy for political advice. The fact is that most people in the U.S. take the words of a fairly respected (especially by this administration) religious leader far more seriously than any musician's, much less a poor drugged out guy like Ozzy. There are a few bands with that type of following, Rage Against the Machine, were very politically motivated, till they broke up, but really other than maybe Bono, I can't think of any rock band that inspires that kind of political activism.

OTOH lots of country music stars are extremely political and are almost unanimously Republican supporters. They regularly petition their audiences to back the right, not to mention all of the "patriotic" songs they record. I loath country music, but even I've heard, Have You Forgotten, Whisky For My Men and Beer For MY Horses, and my all time favorite, We'll Put a Boot In Your A**" (not sure if that's the real name but I think it pretty much captures the spirit of the song!) I don't know if the Republicans cow-tow to CMT but they sure must be at the door an awful lot!

As for suicide rates and MTV, if you are saying that the music that they play could do that I'd say 'have you seen MTV lately???' Not only do they NOT play Ozzy on MTV, they won't play anything remotely related to Ozzy. There is no metal, near-metal, no something-that-that-might-be-on-its-way-to-being-metal on MTV. Believe me, despite the fact that for most of the day and evening they don't play music at all, the music that they DO play, when they can squeeze it in would not encourage suicide, only slight nausea and unholy boredom!! sorry about the OT rant but I really hate MTV there's no reason for the "M"!

But I will say that the sexual content of the television shows and videos that they play is really questionable, especially given the fact that they are aiming it at 14-21 year olds.

[donnylutz]

This may be a little off-topic, if so forgive me....but why is it that republicans are christian and democrats aren't? It's like a line was drawn their and we are all suppose to be on one side or the other. I really don't understand that. People like Robertson perpetuate that and make people believe it as gospel or something..there are many democrats that are quite religious, and i'm sure there are republicans that couldn't care less about religion.

[Baylor]

Has Robertson gone off the deep end? I'd say he's been off the deep end for quite some time .....


Baylor

[attyfan]

Chavez is sending aid after the hurricane. I guess we now know who really reads the Bible -- that commands us to "Do good to those that persecute you" -- and who doesn't.

[madison]

Well said, attyfan.

[Deviousness]

Most Christians are like that, they judge people so that they can feel that they are better and then they want to end it all because they are jealous. They think they are the only ones going to heaven because gosh darn it, they are so much MORAL, so much KINDER than everyone else. Everyone else, must be going to hell so lets kill them.
Pat Robertson is crazy. I don't understand why he able to roam around freely.

[kuchana]

Chavez's action in sending "aid" is more like propaganda in my book. Considering how Katrina took national attention, it really isn't any surprise to me that while Chavez constantly derails Bush left to right along with Castro, he then turns around and sends aid. Most likely to make himself look good in the eyes of the world. Call it the cynic in me but it is politics and I don't think most politicans would do something to help another out of the goodness of their hearts.

[JerryStopher]

Deviousness said ... Most Christians are like that, they judge people so that they can feel that they are better and then they want to end it all because they are jealous. They think they are the only ones going to heaven because gosh darn it, they are so much MORAL, so much KINDER than everyone else. Everyone else, must be going to hell so lets kill them. Please, dear devious one, don't accuse "most Christians" of being so unchristianlike. Most of us are not like that. There are many - especially noticeable in politics - who call themselves "Christian" who act thataway, but my Jesus tells me not to be meanspirited. Most Christians are not like that atall!

[probativev]

Most Christians are like that, they judge people so that they can feel that they are better and then they want to end it all because they are jealous.

How do you know that "most" Christians are like that? Have you done a census report or a poll of all Christians?

There is a wing of fundamentalist Christians who uphold the judgmental side of the religion and the Bible as words to live by, but I'd say that most other Christians are diverse in their beliefs and wish to live a life of hope rather than judging other people. Christianity has been on a decline in the western world. Majority of the Christians are made up of members of the third world country. I don't see them out there wrecking hovac about judgments. They're just trying to find a ray of hope in their hard lives and seeking aids and relief from churches around the world.

For someone criticizing Christians for being judgmental, it's hypocritical of you to make such a judgemental remark about "most Christians".

But back to the topic...Robertson of course has gone off the deep end....on a one-way train directly to the deep end descending all the way to hell if you ask me.

[manskater]

I have to agree. You cannot generalize. I'm sure many of my friends are Christian but are not judgemental. Robertson is a pretty bad seed to be a man of the cloth.

[Deviousness]

100% of Christians I come across are like that....so yeah, they are all like them....don't tell me you actually believe crazies aren't crazy.

Alexa i agree that most 3rd world countries are gaining new christians because, missionaries go there to feed them. brainwashing with food and clothes....how funny.:rollin

Yes there may be open minded Christians out there that does not judge people who aren't Christians...HAHAHAHa, still where are they? Why aren't they speaking out against this man and others like him that make a career spewing hate. Why aren't any Christains going on TV condemning such hatred? I guess deep down inside they support him and agree with him. Maybe they feel what he is feeling and say nothing.

[EigthAv]

I see little judges all over the board.Isn't this what we do? The real judges act and we second guess them and/or say what we would do if we were judge.I see frequent judging in the skating chat forum and sometimes participate.It is a dangerous habit.The bible sez,"judge not,lest ye be judged". or something like that.Bush has already been charged,booked,tried and convicted a number of times in this forum.Deviousness was appointed by God and has the right to play judge,so we'd best listen.:eek "All Christians". Correct me if I'm wrong Deve. Even those who are commited to the "do unto others as you would have that others should do unto you" sort.

[JerryStopher]

Hey Deviantness -

I'm a Christian and I don't appreciate your insults. There is no such thing as a Christian who is meanspirited like Robertson. None. We are not like that.

Do you hear me now?

[Jayjen36]

Yes there may be open minded Christians out there that does not judge people who aren't Christians...HAHAHAHa, still where are they? Why aren't they speaking out against this man and others like him that make a career spewing hate. Why aren't any Christains going on TV condemning such hatred? I guess deep down inside they support him and agree with him. Maybe they feel what he is feeling and say nothing.

As a Christian I also take great offense at being in any way lumped in with the Pat Robertson's of the world. Frankly if you didn't regard the label "Christian" a lot of what he had to say would sound suspiciously like the rhetoric of those terrorists that we're on the look out for.

Were are we? Everywhere! And we're not on TV for the most part because a far-far right wing fanatical so-called "Christian" is a lot more fun to show pictures of. Reasonable, thoughtful, spirituality being expressed will hardly make the rounds at CNN, CNBC, and certainly not at FOX period! In fact, according to most political reporters the Pat Robertson's and Jerry Faldwell's aren't at all the odd one's out WE are.

Faldwell and his followers are controversial, the viewpoints of most Christians are far more middle-of-the-road than people are lead to believe. And yes some of us are a lot more part of the left! So maybe it's not that those Christians agree with Robertson, maybe it's not even that they are silent, it may be that when we speak out, we're thought of as radical (some saying that we are not "real" Christians), or are simply ignored.

[probativev]

Alexa i agree that most 3rd world countries are gaining new christians because, missionaries go there to feed them. brainwashing with food and clothes....how funny

This is SOOO insulting to people from the third world countries, you should be ashamed of yourself. I can't believe anyone would make a statment like this. There is nothing funny about your quote and your laughing at citizens in countries not as stable and wealthy as our own. What do you take them for anyway? Like dogs who would salivate and follow whoever giving them food and shelters? Just look at what you said. You think just because they are poor and hungry, they are not as wise and intelligent as you are, and can't think for themselves? That they are poor so that must mean they are also stupid so they would blindly follow missionaries? There are thousands of people who are living in poverty all over the world right now, but they are people just like you and me, and they are not dumb and stupid and can be "brainwashed" just because they are poor. I would think that many of them have to be quite smart, resourceful and resilient to figure out how to survive in the worlds they live in considering their living conditions, including those who choose to convert to Christianity. I would think that it's easier to "brainwash" you than those who must persevere in face of lifelong hardships.

As to why you don't see other Christians taking a stand against Pat Robertson, well maybe it's because you close your own eyes to them. You only want to see the Christians you want to see--they hateful ones---and you won't go beyond a few newspapers and TV channels to find out that the ones not like them exist. Besides, for many mainstream Christians, they believe in separation of Church and State. Their religious beliefs are their private personal matters and they have no interest in making a political issue out of it like the radical right. They also have no interest in speaking on behalf of any other Christians because they know that not all Christians believe the same things. The minute they take it on themselves to speak out on issues, they would be doing the same thing people like Robertson is doing. But you wouldn't know anything about that, because you think religious is a political thing and you only see those are make it a political thing.

[madison]

Decent post, Alexa.
We'd have fewer wars in the world if people would JUST remember that.

[EigthAv]

It's like taking a negative stand against Moslems and assuming they are all militants.Most of them are good,live and let live people.Self proclaimed religious leaders like Robertson have to drum up some hate in order to keep on enjoying a celebrity lifestyle.Keep in mind that Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are also Christians.Al Gore is of the Christian faith.I've seen a wide variety of faith based orginizations opening their hearts and wallets to the Katrina relief efforts.Christians,Jews,Moslems,Buhdists.There are ugly instances where the extremists get negative,get violent and claim to be acting on God's behalf.Jesus is about peace,forgiveness and salvation.Not about violence,hatred and toting grudges.

[Jayjen36]

I know that a lot of people think of this man as a right-wing religious nut job, but there are a lot of people that have a great deal of trust in, and respect for the man. Not the least of these is the president of the United States.

One way that he is profoundly affecting public policy is through Heritage University's school of law. These people are recruited to do three things, actively fight against the ACLU, fight against laws and policies considered "undesirable" by Christian conservatives, and to get people placed in state and national legislatures. They hope to occupy several state and most likely eventually the U.S. supreme court with as many of their graduates as possible. I know that it sounds hopelessly paranoid, but the fact is that Robertson and the officials of the university are not keeping this under wraps. They're quite proud of what they are doing. And just in case you don't think that they can be successful:

To combat the American Civil Liberties Union, Robertson founded the American Center for Law and Justice -- that's the ACLJ, not the ACLU. The ACLJ has argued and won several cases before the High Court, including the right to organize Bible clubs in public schools. Jay Sekulow, the chief counsel, has been asked by President Bush to help shepherd Judge John Roberts through the confirmation process. Sekulow considers himself a conservative Christian who thinks most law schools are too liberal.

I think that at least begins to clear up whatever doubts people may have had about John Roberts. This no doubt about just what Bush expects from this man, and just what his plans are. No one is "shepherded" by the chief counsel of the ACLJ unless less are as far to the right as you can possibly get. And if he's not, this is a clear indication that the president expects him to be.

I don't know, but the thought of crops of Robertson clones coming out of that place and heading straight for judges robes, or with both barrels aimed at individual rights, frankly scares the crap out of me. I've watched stories about their graduates and they all sound like carbon copies of Pat Robertson. Imagine lots of "Pats" deciding whether or not you have the choice to do what you will with your own body, or whether or not you can divorce your husband or wife (another pet project of theirs is to make getting a divorce very difficult). Not to mention whether you can freely practice your faith, if its not fundamental Christianity, without fear of being fired from your job, or being evicted from your home or the victim of a hate crime. Sorry for going on, but I find this beyond alarming.

Here's a link to the show on PBS that I saw, Religion and Ethics Weekly:

What Pat Robertson has been up to, not pretty (http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/week903/feature.html)

[madison]

Jayjen!

I can't really put out here what I think because of the christian far, far right, but thank you for that link. This is one of those moments I am glad I am not younger; I don't want to see what will be coming for our country - and it will be coming.





"God is not a republican OR a democrat"