KANYE WEST: "President Bush doesn't care about black pe

[kwancierto de aranjuez]

I wonder how many people feel the same way as Kanye West does. At the NBC Relief Concert, an angry Kanye West said that the system was setup to be as slow as possible to respond to the needs of black people in New Orleans and that President Bush didn't care about black people. He also said he was tired about the portrayal of African-Americans as looters and Whites as looking or food in the media.

What do you guys think? Did race and class play a factor in this disaster?

[kwancierto de aranjuez]

I personally think that racism in an institutional sense played a great part in this tragedy. The beaurocracy of the levis not being strong enough, the city being under sea level, the concentration of poor, Black Americans in certain parts of the city, the poor response time of the federal government, and the portrayal of African-Americans have all been really terrible.

It still goes to show that even in the 21st century, RACE DOES MATTER! And it will always matter as long as we keep thinking it doesn't.

[4dogknight]

The elephant in the room is Black!

4dk

[moxie]

I think Bush (and many people like him who grew up amid wealth & power) has absolutely no connection and/or understanding of what it is like to not have the money or resources to deal with an emergency like this. Even the clueless FEMA director basically said it was the victims' own fault for not evacuating (how were poor people with no cars or credit cards supposed to do this?).

So it becomes an issue of the "haves" ignoring the needs of the "have nots," which, because of the high percentage of blacks in New Orleans, does translate to rich white officials ignoring the needs of poor black people.

[EigthAv]

I disagree across the board on this topic.

[GinnySmith]

I disagree across the board on this topic. Why?

Explain to me please, why someone like George Bush who grew up white and with wealth and privilege as the heir to the oil empire would have a clue what it is like to be black, poor and homeless with nothing.

This man has had his photo ops but has not dared go near the really troubled areas. Before King George the Third Staged his posturing entry to NO 4 days after the really bad stuff happened complete with the scores of National Guard Convoy much like his legendary fly boy "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" posturing photo op, Henry Conack asked, "Hey, this road is clear. We drove right up. How come nobody else is here?"

I hardly think that Henry is Christ or Moses personfiied, somehow able to part the waters and somehow scare the alleged armed looters and maruading gangs away while he stands in the middle of New Orleans, a ghost town of what it used to be, abandoned and ignored by the President who swaggered in his testosterone induced state saying "Bring it on, while he held up US Soldiers and Iraqi citizens as human protective shields while he irresponsibly played "Commander in Chief" of the supposedly richest and most powerful Nation in the world.

How could this man, DUBYA, have a clue of what it feels like to carry a a baby inside for 9 months, give birth to it, raise it from infancy to maturity only to have its body come home in a bag from a land far away for stupid senseless war that has no meaning or honor whatsoever?

I would rather have the six year old boy, who separated from his parents and other adult relations, who took care of his younger siblings and cousins to safety in the aftermath of this catastrophy running this country than the unattached, unfeeling, clueless rich spoiled oil baron frat boy born with a silver spoon his mouth who is playing this country and the world as if it were a Nintendo video game.

This is just my opinion. I agree across the board with this topic.

[Krista]

I think Bush (and many people like him who grew up amid wealth & power) has absolutely no connection and/or understanding of what it is like to not have the money or resources to deal with an emergency like this.

I don't think he understands not having money, at all, regardless of whether there's an emergency or not.

[Jayjen36]

I disagree across the board on this topic.

Not really much of a surprise here, but what we've seen begs the question: In all of the coverage most have seen in the past few days of this tragedy, we've been shown many scenes of despair and horror and nearly all of the worst, stories of corpses, shootings and rapes (including, to my horror and eternal disgust children) were among the poor blacks stranded in New Orleans. Why? Why is it when monstrously long lines were shown of people waiting for busses (when they DID actually get there) there was a sea of black faces and only a very very few others?

I was willing to believe that it was just the coincidence of reporters getting to these areas first, or that those areas were predominantly black. But, as the coverage expanded, in the worst and most dangerous places we saw more black faces and a lot fewer of any one else's.

I'm not saying that there weren't other people who suffered, or that they weren't just as traumatized, or even that they don't have horror stories as well, but the question must still be asked, why all those black faces? Was it a trick of the media to only this side of the disaster? Did they ignore other large groups of people in New Orleans who were just as badly fixed and in as much danger? Were these people just more vocal? Did they shout more loudly, plead more fervently for help than other groups of people who were in the same amount of trouble did? Did they just create a better photo op?

Was it a function of their placement in the city? Were the neighborhoods where they lived and the places they were told to go for shelter just unluckily placed so that they were put into this hopeless situation by chance?

*sigh* I'm not "playing a race card". I don't want this to be an "us-vs.-them" situation. But the questions don't go away. They don't become clearer as the days move forward. I wouldn't say that people don't care about the African-Americans there. I wouldn't necessarily say that of the president or many others. I'd sooner chalk it up to the possibility that shoring up levies for the distant possibility of this type of storm just seemed like something that could be "put off". Something that they could worry about later. Something that didn't have much chance of actually happening, but did. And that while people at ground zero scrambled, unprepared, to do what they could think to do, and called for state and federal aid, that those people ignored them thinking that whatever it was could wait. That a speech, or meeting or whatever could be finished before they dealt with just another storm that was reported to have been smaller than was expected.

Even so, there are still questions, not the least of which have to do with both race and social class. Even if this was not a case of officials deliberately allowing people to suffer, or be at risk because of their race or social status, there are still those images and those stories. There has to be a reason for this, and we need to know what that reason is.

[EigthAv]

Yes,this is why Florida only experienced a category 1 Katerina.Bush spoke to God and reminded her that his WHITE brother was Governor of Fla and that scores of LILY WHITES were in that region,so God,being a LILY WHITE woman spared them.I'm what some folks refer to as "white". I won't classify my economic status.My income is under $15,000 per year,so figure it out for yourselves.Of course I haven't a clue as to how it feels to be black and damn me for being born white.I've got it made.Free sunshine,free blue skies,free trees to look at,money in the bank.......I even have a debit card.:eek I was born with it. My mother was working for dirt wages,but she sold my older brothers into white slavery and prostitued on the side so I could have the best of everything. Bush looks out for me.He makes sure the Air Force is working ahead of me,spraying my yards with mild herbicides so the grass will be easier to mow down.My faucets don't just produce water,Bush provided me with a magic wand so I can wave it and fresh cold beer will flow from my kitchen faucet. When Sasha put Bush on her cell phone,it wasn't really her mum he talked to,it was me.I told him to order the judges to make sure the whitest USFSA lady gets the fs gold medal.They had to sneak in a dermatologist to measure theamount of white skin pigents in Cohen and Hughes and Hughes won.<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->There,is that what ya'll want me to say?

[madison]

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>There,is that what ya'll want me to say?<hr></blockquote>

No actually I'd appreciate it if you dropped the docu-drama. Your posts are a little whacked out, 8av. I try to read them, but they don't make sense. I know I am not alone here with that thought.

[probativev]

I don't know if Bush cares about black people or not, but he sure doesn't care about poor people. As it so happened, all those Black New Orleans victims are poor.

Thing is, regardless of Bush, anyone who thinks that race is not an issue in this or in our society today is just totally off track.It is a BIG issue. And it's a BIG issue that some don't want to admit is an issue.

[EigthAv]

I miss KwanFanatic.She could rail against the Bush haters without remorse and put her weight on the issue.I have to keep coming back down here,like a ghost to remind youz that you wanted her out.Be careful what you wish for.I'm trying to run the counterpoints to your points,but I'm half liberal,so...............doesn't work. Some of you are saying I'm dense and out of touch with reality.The same voices refuse to even look fairly at both sides of the issues.It's "my way or the highway" and since you don't own the board you can't gag me.Bush is not a racist.His mum and dad aren't racists.His wife isn't a racist.Your minds have been conditioned to believe everything the more charismatic democratic,lily white politicians say is the gospel.A wite man,be he demo or repo,is never going to save the blacks. Future President Hillary Clinton won't save you. She has no idea how it feels to be born black.Be thinking Jackson,Sharpton,Rice,etc. <!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->Before Im finished,you will be begging KwanFanatic to please come back.:evil

[donnylutz]

I hate politics, but I just had to respond to this.

Being that racism is still an issue in this country, it plays a part in everything big or small, including gigantic national disasters. I don't really know what to think of Kanye West's statements. Do we take them as what he really believes, or do we take them as him just being extremely upset? I may not like a lot of things about Bush, and I don't, but I don't think I'd go as far as calling him a racist. Is he an outspoken activist to end racial issues, well no. But that does not make him a racist in my mind. Like others have said, it is impossible for a white person to know what it is like to be black, to deal with the things that black people have to deal with on a daily basis. I'm going off track here.....that's why I normally don't respond to these. As long as racism is still a part of this country, then will be a part of the things that happen in it. How do we get rid of racism is a much better question to ask. The first step to ending racism is for white people, like myself, to stand up for black people, understand the privilidge that is given to us simply for being the color we are, and use that prililidge for good, not evil.

Donnylutz
:TOS

[Ashley]

I don't think it's neccesarily that he's racist, I just think he's out of touch with reality.

I think most people in their mind believe that the best way to deal with racism is to believe that everyone is equal.

The trouble is, that belief can't become a reality until the mindset is associated with actions that are inline with that belief.

Saying everyone is equal doesn't help now, because it simply isn't true.

More like everyone SHOULD be equal.

[attyfan]

ITA that Bush is out of touch with reality. I don't think that Bush doesn't care about blacks; I think he just doesn't care about the poor. (He is reported to have signed into Texas law a "Futile Life" statute, allowing hospitals to pull the plug -- or feeding tube -- on any person in Terry Schiavo's situation who doesn't have the money to pay the hospital bills.)

[donnylutz]

Saying everyone is equal doesn't help now, because it simply isn't true.

Exactly. It's not about equality, it's not equity. People don't need equal treatment, they need eqitable treatment.

[Skatekwan6]

A wite man,be he demo or repo,is never going to save the blacks. Future President Hillary Clinton won't save you. She has no idea how it feels to be born black.Be thinking Jackson,Sharpton,Rice,etc.

Before Im finished,you will be begging KwanFanatic to please come back.

A white person, [I just pressed the space bar], while not one of "the blacks," can be much more compassionate and in touch than Bush is, so don't lump all whites together in one category and say that they could never possibly be compassionate towards blacks. [I just pressed the space bar again] I don't know the situation surrounding "kwanfanatic," but do you have to mention her in every post? You talk in circles, but you have never actually said anything in this thread. I understand that you, someone who made the comment that straight, white males face the same discrimination as gays, will never understand a lot of the things you try to discuss, so I don't really expect much from you in threads like these.

[manskater]

Motherlode - don't worry about the drama that others may want to create. Just continue to post and discuss.

I was incensed that one of my co-workers who seems to be a blind follower of the prez stated yesterday quite matter of factly that "those" people in NO get handouts all the time and they are complaining to get more. I politely said that is not the case and many of those people could simply not get out the city. Obviously there are people who would "blame the victim" or who think all poor people relish being poor.
<img border=0 src="http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/eyes.gif" />

I think this whole tragedy has to be investigated and the question of race has to be addressed as well.

[Sparks]

Skatekwan6, {press space bar} I think I love you. {press space bar} I also appreciate your sense of humor.

You are my hero of the day! :TOS

[IzzyS]

ITA that Bush is out of touch with reality. I don't think that Bush doesn't care about blacks; I think he just doesn't care about the poor.

attyfan, I *so* agree with you! I think it's more about class. His people are the "haves" and the "have mores." He said it himself.

New Orleans will rebuild but probably without housing for the poor. I imagine there are a lot of developers drooling over what they can do there. Those pesky poor people are gone. Yeah! Now they can make nice big condos and junk.

Less poverty means more tourism, more money for the "haves," and leave the rest of them wherever they were dumped when they were evacuated. They'll probably even fix the levees once they've gotten rid of those on the fringe of society.

I can't help but think this is the wealthy agenda.

[EigthAv]

I'm still wondering why the lefties of this group failed to rail at those responsible for painting Condileeza Rice as a porch..........I won't say it(n-word). Is she too black? I'm this humungous fan of Morgan Freeman and all. Is Morgan too black? I also love Samuel L.Jackson,Rudy Ray Moore and Surya Bonaly.Are they too black? I think it would help the youngsters with inter-racial relations if we could once and for all move on and quit being so nostaligic about "the good/bad olde days". Alabama and Mississipi aren't the same total hating grounds they were back then.Yes,there are still racists over here.Most of us just get along and realize the brotherhood of it all.I refuse to accept bigotry.It also has worked it's evil against women and girls for years in America.Bogotry isn't just for the deep south.It isn't just for the lily whites and rednecks. The "brown baggers" can be more racially hateful than Archie Bunker. Trying so hard to be white and resenting their own ancestory.Whites who wish too hard to be black can be just as wierd to deal with.Tell me Bush can't appreciate the po man's plight and I will probably agree with you.I hope I live long enough to see "one of us" become Prez.A person who doesn't have to fake it when she/he rolls her/his sleeves up and does some actual manual labour for a tee vee campaign ad.I am still waiting on my 40 acres and a mule!

[JerryStopher]

Attyfan said ... (He is reported to have signed into Texas law a "Futile Life" statute, allowing hospitals to pull the plug -- or feeding tube -- on any person in Terry Schiavo's situation who doesn't have the money to pay the hospital bills.) That is the law in Texas, and I do believe it was Governor Bush who signed it.

I think it is entirely inappropriate for such a decision to be made solely on the basis of whether the person has enough money or sufficient insurance to pay for continued treatment. A pull-the-plug decision, if it shall be made, ought only to be made by prior directive of the patient, or if none exists in writing, by the next-of-kin, such as, for example, the spouse.

Under this kill-the-poor law, if a patient's insurance company chooses to cancel the policy and refuse further payment, the hospital could simply disconnect life-support. This would be, as I see it, unjustifiable homicide on the part of the insurer and the medical provider. But it would appear to be legal in Texas.

Might W's support of this law speak to his attitude toward the poor folks?

[EigthAv]

Jerry,I can't and don't even try to speak for all poor people in America. I speak for me.I am "poor" if poor mostly involves how much $$$$ one has. Don't hold your breath waiting on anyone to come save you if your money runs out.Why do you think they call it capitilism? Frankly,I'm more interested in rescuing babies and children than I am in prolonging zombies who would have died much sooner if not for sci-techno machines which can enable the brain dead to go on existing.I don't want anyone to finance a zombie that looks just like me,but is brain dead.Save those resources for babies and children who haven't yet tasted from the cup.<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->I watched O'Reilly and Sharpton's exchange on the Kanye statements.Interesting.I figure that Bill and Al are probably golf buddies behind the scenes.They could become our next Howard Cosell & Muhhamed Ali. I want to see Rudy Ray Moore being interviewed and get his take on the situation.Letz hear from a down right and for real Mississipi black man with an attitude.

[moxie]

I miss KwanFanatic.She could rail against the Bush haters without remorse and put her weight on the issue.I have to keep coming back down here,like a ghost to remind youz that you wanted her out.

Who wanted her out? I can't think of any post that even hinted at such a thing. Yes, folks sometimes asked her to include links and/or direct quotes with her posts. And, yes, folks sometimes took issue with the tone of some of her posts.
But never, ever was it suggested that she should stop posting. That is simply not true.

[kuchana]

I'd like to think Bush isn't racist. More like out of touch with the poor as some already have pointed out. What really annoyed the heck out of me was the media in how they labeled the blacks as looters and the whites as the finders in trying to survive in the aftermath.

[Skatekwan6]

Jerry,I can't and don't even try to speak for all poor people in America. I speak for me.

It's funny that you say that, but then you proceed to make a sweeping generalization about a group of people.:rolleyes

[EigthAv]

SkateKwan,I don't quite see your point,but the post I made does look like a bunch of rubbish. I'm about done talking about the political side of post-Katrina. I shoud have left this thread alone with my one sentence disagreement.The antis are going to slam him,regardless,so why argue? An issue I do have is that I think it is a bit much to expect taxpayers to foot the bills for wealty and middle class folks who built homes on or near the beaches and didn't bother with flood insurance because they knew FEMA would give them the $$$$$$ to rebuild.FEMA needs a serious overhaul. I plan to donate more to the relief efforts and urge others to give what they can. If you want a diversion from the news channels,Southern Mississippi vs Alabama is on ESPN 2 right now and Southern Miss has pledged to fight for Mississippi tonight.Could get interesting.

[Ogre Mage]

As someone from the moderate-to-liberal end of the spectrum, I would not say that Bush "doesn't care about black people." He welcomes people of color into his "tent" so long as they agree with his views. Condi Rice and Alberto Gonzales are the most prominent examples. But the Bush Administration frequently does things which puts it at odds with the African-American community in general -- and Bush is completely dismissive of anyone who doesn't agree with him.

As for the charge that Bush doesn't care about poor people, that rings painfully true and let's face it -- many poor people in this country are African-American. Look at Barbara Bush's (Marie Antoinette) comment about the people in the Superdome -- "They are underpriviledged anyway, so this is working well for them." :x Yeah, yeah, his mother said that, not him. But this president has made big tax cuts for rich people while cutting funding for college aid, adult education programs and Medicaid. He spent 5 months campaigning to turn Social Security into a kind of investment scheme even though the current system has been vital for millions of poor Americans. So much for "Compassionate Conservatism." This president has no clue or interest about the challenges facing working class Americans.

[Lisa Seye]

Why didn't the mayor of New Orleans or the governor or Louisiana assist in helping the poor people get out of New Orleans?
They were stuck because they had not money to leave. This is why there were so many to "rescue" (for lack of a better word).
Why didn't anyone help them get out?
Who can we blame for that?

[madison]

Try this link, lisa. This info is on the news - but probably NOT faux news.

<a href="http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Nonpartisan_congressional_research_report_finds_Lo uisiana_governor_took_nece_0913.html" target="_new">rawstory.com/news/2005/Nonpartisan_congressional_research_report_finds_Lo uisiana_governor_took_nece_0913.html</a>

Once the governor asked bush for assistance, the control of the disaster becomes federal responsibility.

Does that answer your question/comment?

[Lisa Seye]

motherlode02,
Thanks for the link.
I was actually referring to Pre-strike, when everyone was leaving before Katrina hit. The people who were poor and had no means to leave should have gotten help leaving. This should have been internal (mayor, governor). And I actually saw my answer on this morning's news. An interview was being replayed with the mayor in which is was stated that the emergency plans in place in New Orleans did show that they were supposed to be helping poor helpless people evacuate. They did not do this which is why so many were left there afterward to wait for the SLOW federal help. And the mayor did say he was to blame for not getting everyone evacuated. And President Bush has taken responsibility for slow response afterward. So the mayor and governor were to blame for what should have happened before Katrina hit and the Pres is to blame for what happened afterward.

[EigthAv]

Like Kanye really cares? Or does he have a new cd out? I recall when Roger Daltry was singing his anti-establishment anthems.......as he and the Who were climbing the corporate ladder.Even then,when I was like 12 or 13,I wondered what he would be singing when he was the establishement.......same ole songs.:eek <!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->"The stars" are a mixed bag as far as their Katrina reactions.As I predicted,many of them are milking it. Tired olde Neil Young is once more envougue.There are also pro-establishment artists getting in on the action."I've got friends in low places"/Garth Brooks. Anyways,he "came out of retirement" to get in the show.Lee Greenwood gets to dust it on off and do shows again.Kind of reminds me a bit of the preachers with tv shows who say "send your money to the Lord" and have their phone numbers and p.o.box numbers scrolling across the screen as they preach.You wanna help? Send that money direct,cut the middle people and if you wanna listen to Kenya,Neil, or the country/western patriots plug in a cd or turn on the radio and dig on it.........so cynical!I'm getting so mean in my olde age. :lol Where is Elton John???? <!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->Send me your money and I guarantee you at least 30% will go to the Katrina relief efforts.I'll eat good on the rest.:) If skaters are involved,buy those tickets! Figure Skating is a worthwhile cause in and of itself. <!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->Bring Back KwanFanatic<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->Mike

[Ogre Mage]

I don't want to say too much as the fallout of Hurricane Katrina is still becoming clear. But it does appear that there were problems at all levels of government.

However, if state and local officials in Louisiana are to be held accountable, that is for the people of Louisiana to decide. But the failures of the FEDERAL government are the business of everyone and the president is ultimately responsible for those failures. I would also note that Republicans control all 3 branches of the Federal Gov't (House of Reps, Senate, White House).

[Jayjen36]

About Kanye West, the guy is a hothead, and anyone who knows anything about him at all would probably take his "outburst" with a grain of salt. The only reason that he was taken seriously is that there were a few more "respected" people, and a whole lot of "others" asking similar questions.

As for Bush and the question of race, I don't think that he and his administration put on robes and screech "white-power" at each other in secret or anything, and I don't believe that New Orleans or Louisiana state officials ignored the people trapped their because of the color of their skin. In fact I don't believe that the vast majority of non-black, brown, yellow, or red Americans want anything to do with racism at all.

The thing is, they don't have to. When even the smallest incidents, leaflets describing African-Americans as animals who are born criminals being left on cars in mall parking lots, or executives at fortune five-hundred companies rolling eyes at the idea of Kwanzaa saying ‘don’t those people have enough holidays’, or a young black man being pulled over because it ‘just looks suspicious’ for him to be driving a nice car in a nice neighborhood…are ignored, or brushed aside as the actions of ‘a few nut jobs’ it leaves the doors open for more of the same. It’s like a cancer, if ignored it won’t just go away, it will grow until it becomes dangerous. I’m not saying that it calls for drastic measures or anything, simply that where such things appear people aren’t so quick to dismiss them as meaningless, if for no other reason that those at whom these incidents are aimed DO NOT find them trivial or meaningless.

As for the celebrity participation, frankly I don't care if they want to bring a band and tap dance on the roof tops as long as when they go down they bring help and supplies with them!

And as for Kwanfanatic, this is a free board and she can post here just as much as she likes like anyone else! Although I have to say that I really don't miss being told again and again how miserable, amoral, untrustworthy and despicable liberals and democrats are, if I wanted that I'd watch fox news.

[madison]

I do have to say regarding NO, the failures were not only in the evacuations, but in the police desertions and suicides, lack of accessible National Guard units, and the amazing fury of the hurricane itself.

My take on the situation was that bus drivers, train engineers, etc. abandoned there positions in order to get out of a very dangerous hurricane. I do believe that the plan was in place, and given the resources of the National Guard (my understanding was that they always were meant for this kind of disaster rather than fighting in a war on the other side of the world), the plan probably would have been executed well.

Who knows. But I think it is fair to say that there was a good plan as local and state officials knew there would be poor, elderly residents who were unable to evacuate the city w/o assistance.

[tarask8sgr8]

i'm tired of the everytime there is a disaster let's throw the race card out there. it's just some type of excuse for people to throw their weight around.

there are just as many poor white people in the u.s. as black.....you don't see them complaining like the blacks.

i'm tired of hollywood thinking they are the only ones doing anything to help these people. i'm tired of seeing of hollywood ask ME/US for money to help these people when 1.) i don't have the money and they do and 2.) just because i'm not a katrina victim does not mean i don't need financial help.

BAN HOLLYWOOD!!!

and, it's not a race issue.......it's a humanity issue.

[moxie]

Tara....:
You know, just because "Hollywood" asks you to give money doesn't mean you have to. And I didn't see anyone asking for money specifically for black people; it's for anyone who suffered a great loss in this tragedy. (Yes, there are plenty of poor white people, poor Asians, poor Indians, etc. who have suffered terribly due to Katrina. There have been plenty of stories about them, too, which you might have noticed if you hadn't been so blinded by your own racism.)

You say you need financial help, too.
Sorry, but that doesn't compare to people who have had homes, jobs and loved ones blown away. Some of them will never even get a body to bury.

Why should I want my tax dollars helping a person like you, who has so little compassion for the suffering of others?

But if it makes you feel better, go ahead blame the "race card" for your own situation.

[tarask8sgr8]

trust me, i have compassion for these people. my heart aches and tears flow from what they have gone through. it is a devastation for the u.s. as a whole. i might not be struggling like they are........but i, amongst others, are suffering just as much but in a much different way.

becuase so much money and aid will be going to these victims, what is going to happen to our bills, our taxes. now, we are going to end up paying more for things of necessity while our paychecks are not only staying the same, but in some cases are decreasing.

i'm all for heping those who need it.....but, there has been no help from the gvt. in regards to my families finaincial needs......

i might not be homeless and i might not have relatives who have pershied due to a natural disaster....but i have needs just as much as they do, in a different capacity, and i see no help from the gvt. except for them to always ask me for more money.

btw moxie, i am not racist. and, i would like an apology. i never said that people are only asking for money for the black people. i'm just saying that it seems like when disasters like this happens......somehow, someway race becomes an issue because certain people see it as the only way it is when it isn't. those are the people who are blinded by the truth and who are the racists.

i look forward to your apology.........

[Ogre Mage]

Well, I see it like this. The poor were affected worst by Katrina. Most of them were black. Is it just a coincidence that most of the poor were black? I doubt it.

Racism is still alive and well in the USA. I have experienced it first hand within the last 10 years. However, riding around in white hoods is no longer fashionable. Racism has, in general, become a more subtle thing, which is why many white people miss it. They're looking for the guy riding around in the white hood and missing the store clerk who continually gives black people the evil eye when they come into her store.

[Krista]

Good Points Ogre Mage.

When I first moved to the south, there were cross burnings still going on(this was only in 89, so not THAT long ago) but you don't see that going on as much, although there are still the klan rallies etc. The people are much quieter now, and like you said, they discriminate without wearing the white hoods while they're doing it.

[Sparks]

i'm tired of the everytime there is a disaster let's throw the race card out there. it's just some type of excuse for people to throw their weight around.

there are just as many poor white people in the u.s. as black.....you don't see them complaining like the blacks.
Race and racial discrimination is NOT A CARD! It is a reality.

No one has the right to say that Blacks use race as an excuse unless you know exactly what it feels like to be an African American in this society. Racism is alive and well in America...it's just more covert than in the past.

Face it. There are people in America who are not like you. They may be homosexual...they may be African American. Unless you have been threatned, abused, or ignored because of who you are then you just DON'T KNOW.

[manskater]

Sparks -- direct and to the point.. Well said.

[moxie]

Tarask8sgr8, perhaps you didn't realize it, but there is inherent racism in the following statements you made:

there are just as many poor white people in the u.s. as black.....you don't see them complaining like the blacks.
i'm tired of hollywood thinking they are the only ones doing anything to help these people. i'm tired of seeing of hollywood ask ME/US for money to help these people when 1.) i don't have the money and they do and 2.) just because i'm not a katrina victim does not mean i don't need financial help

When you use such phrases as "like the blacks" and "these people" to generalize about an entire group of humans, that assumes that the entire group feels/acts/thinks the same way.
When that generalization is defined solely by race, then it is indeed racism (as opposed to -isms related to gender, age, weight, etc.).

This doesn't mean that I think you would treat a black person with hatred or prejudice. But "these people" that you speak of are not the enemy. They, in fact, are "us."

Just curious: There are telethons on TV all the time in support of various causes (money for cancer research, or to help kids with severe illnesses, etc.). Do you resent it when Hollywood folks participate in these? After all, they are asking for money that will go to someone else and not to you. Why is it that you are so bothered by Hollywood people doing the same thing for the hurricane victims? Could it, indeed, be because
so many of them happen to be black?

[tarask8sgr8]

color has nothing to do with it........if the person was green i would still feel the same way.

the point it.....hollywood tries to act like they care so much about the people of the katrina and other disasters...which i'm sure they do. however, if they really cared, it wouldn't take natural disasters to help these people. instead of living a life of two multi-million homes, 6 cars, $20,000 hoop earrings, $2,000 on a purse, ect., ect., why don't they go around and build homes for the homeless or knock on people's door and give them $1,000 or a new car, ect. it's the point that these people make way too much money, ask us for ours in helping, and then only show up to poor areas when a disaster hits.

now, not all are like that but there are so many.

and, yes when there are telethons for other things it bothers me as well.

[RA5CViggie]

there are just as many poor white people in the u.s. as black.....you don't see them complaining like the blacks.
White people aren't portrayed as criminal looters during hurricane disasters either. Lots of people assume that poor white people are basically decent people who are struggling, not people who are too lazy to get off their butts and get a job and just want handouts, "like those people". The same people usually use phrases like "race card" and think racism is dead because there is no more Jim Crow and blacks aren't getting lynched on a regular basis anymore.
i might not be homeless and i might not have relatives who have pershied due to a natural disaster....but i have needs just as much as they do, in a different capacity, and i see no help from the gvt. except for them to always ask me for more money.
Honey, homes, clothes, medicine, and necessities are a in a different category than the brand new iPod you want.
why don't they go around and build homes for the homeless or knock on people's door and give them $1,000 or a new car, ect.
Oprah does that and she was "begging" people to donate for the victims. And there are plenty of celebrities who donate anonymously every day because getting credit from people like you is not what they care about.
and, yes when there are telethons for other things it bothers me as well.
Why? Because you think celebrities should foot all the bills? That's what charities and telethons are about, giving out of the goodness of your heart, not kicking back saying "I need money too so I'm not giving any!" and refusing to give anything because you think famous people should be paying all of the money. Yeah, it would be nice if rich people could cover all of the disasters of the world, but they don't and probably can't. Does that mean victims deserve to be left with nothing?

You're not the only one who doesn't have money to spare. Not having money doesn't mean you can't donate. Raid your kitchen cabinets for some canned goods you aren't going to eat or your closet for clothes you aren't going to wear anymore. Hell, donate some time and volunteer somewhere. Stop at the Red Cross and donate some blood. Let an evacuee stay at your home until they get on their feet. There's lots of ways to donate besides money. I suppose you think celebrities should be doing all that too.

[tarask8sgr8]

for one.....

opening up your house to someone from the hurricaine. that's great......but if you can do it for these people why can't you do it for people on an everyday occurance.

again, i'm all for helping these people. breaks my heart to see them suffer. just wish there was something someone could do for me...........

if ur rich...you have money to get what u want
if ur poor..you can at times get help from the gvt.
if ur ill...you can do the make a wish
if u just work everyday just to make ends meet.....u get no help from the gvt.

while i was in school two years ago......my dad was making half the money he was making the year before when i was in school. we were still going to pay the college but we just needed a little extra time due to his decrease in pay. they all but looked at us and said, "screw you we want our money now or your child doesn't go back to school." they were willing to lose $20,000 on my tuition rather then to accept smaller payments over a certain amount of time.

my point is that my family struggles everyday, just like some here........and i see no help for us.

[moxie]

they were willing to lose $20,000 on my tuition rather then to accept smaller payments over a certain amount of time. my point is that my family struggles everyday, just like some here........and i see no help for us.

Well, sheesh, your idea of "struggling" is facing a hassle over $20,000 in tuition. :eek Why not take a year off (and take some financial pressure off your dad and other family members) and earn your own tuition? Or, why not save 75% and go to a community college for a year?

I think the real problem here is not that you are racist. It's that you're young and clueless. When you're 40 or so, let's revisit the issue of what it truly means to be poor and needy.

[madison]

tara8,
Did you perhaps see Celine Dion on LARRY KING LIVE a couple of nights after the hurricane - yeah, she forked over a million dollars - SHE WAS HYSTERICAL, crying and going on about 'who cares who does what, just HELP these people' or words to that extent, all with less than 30 minutes before she had to start her nightly show in Las Vegas.

Larry asked her to sing a song as 'Hollywood' performers had done before her. She pulled herself together (don't ask me how) and sang THE PRAYER unaccompanied. It was priceless.

At the end, it was me who was in tears. 'Hollywood' people have been very good to many people, e.g. Michael J. Fox and the Parkinson's Disease Foundation.

I think we should take whatever help we can get when we're in a disaster as big as Hurricane Katrina. JMO.

[tarask8sgr8]

nope not a racist. and, there are good hollywood people who do good for people. it is the ones who just show up for when disasters happen that irk me.

for your information, i went to a community college. and, it was my parents decision to keep me in school not mine.

[Terri]

Well I hope that you stay in school.

[Jayjen36]

It's interesting. There are different levels of poverty, or what's considered to be poor in the U.S., most of the world has no trouble being able to differentiate between poverty, and the plain old "working-class blues". I've got those blues, along with a lot of my family. We struggle with monthly bills, car notes, used cars, trying to find a way to retire at some time before we hit 78 without being destitute, fear of lay-offs, the alarms warning about the death of manufacturing jobs in the U.S., unions, etc.

But, there are people right here in this country who don't worry about bills, they worry about having enough food for their children (not considering themselves as they are used to not eating so that their children can eat), they worry about how long they can stay in their home before it's either condemned or they are evicted and thrown into the street. There are so many people that live like this or very close to it. And if they need to leave their home for whatever reason they've got no family to go to, and the people around them are just as bad off and can't spare food or space. I've seen it when people have to live this way and have almost no hope of things getting better. It's heart-breaking. I'd like some help too, but I realize that my having to struggle to find money for school, or make due with a used car that I struggle to pay for, or ridiculous gas and electric bills that I can barely pay, doesn't compare to not being able to feed your children, or not being able to keep a roof over their heads.

[EigthAv]

Something I finally remembered this morning is this......."They",they being that small handful of wickedly rich and powerful people who control the World,they need for us to always be quarreling,fueding,pointing fingers at each other and otherwise not exactly coming together as brothers and sisters for the common good.Divide and conquer."They" can't lose but we can.<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->I enjoyed Oliver Stones almost animated movie interpretation of the Richard Nixon story.I knew Oliver was adding big chunks of fantasy to the real story.Food for thought,so to speak,as he did with his JFK blockbuster.Nixon as the puppet. <!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->Is Bush really in charge? Has any American President really been in charge in the past 20 years? Why can't a president simply put his mouth to a microphone and talk to us from the heart without a professionally written speech? I'm not singling President Bush out.I got a good laugh out of watching Ross Perot explain how Bill Clinton's famous "I feeeeeeeeeel your pain!" speech was manufactured and choreographed to get the desired result.<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->I did like the Bush speech.Strong words.I'm all for rebuilding the gulf and creating a masterpiece for the whole World to be proud of.I will be watching as well as I can,helping when I can and will shout foul when I see foulplay.With this huge-big sum of money pouring into our region,I am sure there are some greedmeisters already licking their chops,with their bib on and knife & fork in hand.That is one way to look at it.I already know that I'm not the only one in my own community who has his/her heart in the right place and is looking at a great opportunity to "get it right". <!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->I pray for all of us.

[madison]

8th av wrote:

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Something I finally remembered this morning is this......."They",they being that small handful of wickedly rich and powerful people who control the World,they need for us to always be quarreling,fueding,pointing fingers at each other and otherwise not exactly coming together as brothers and sisters for the common good.Divide and conquer."They" can't lose but we can.<hr></blockquote>


YES! Keep thinking 8th, cause there's a good brain in your head when you think for yourself:)

[EigthAv]

Motherlode,I'm not known for brains.:lol <!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->
I watched the PBS telethon for Hurricane Katrina relief with my brother and sis n law last night. Great jazz!!! There were ample shots taken at Bush. I was laughing when my brother did a brief anti-Bush number of his own during one of the breaks,complete with his harmonica solo.:lol :lol I told him he aught to jump on up on the board and put his 20 cents worth in the politics forum.He'd fit right in.

[kwancierto de aranjuez]

Why would the rich and the powers that be need to destroy us when we are doing a good job of it ourselves.

8th, be careful... You sound like a communist! Gasp! The humanity! :eek

[EigthAv]

The major difference I see in our government and a truly socialized government is that some of us aren't on programs and plans.We pay mega bucks into the various programs and the middlemen snatch up a lot of the money.Socialism is more direct,therefore less paperwork,less middlemen and more bang for the tax dollars.<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->As our population continues to grow and times goes on,we may have to consider some socialist notions.

[kwancierto de aranjuez]

8th, I like you...

I may not always agree with you but I like you're unconventionality...

[EigthAv]

Kwancert,Mike is just another pawn in this big game of life.Another stranger on the bus. I'm mostly glad to be here and do appreciate Mother Earth.

[EigthAv]

I actually saw West on SNL doing his thang recently.I was not impressed. I could see where he needs to make political comments and get the free promotions that go with broader media coverage,because as an artist....???... :lol

[Krista]

thats humorous Mike, because my mom who is in her 60's, and ultra conservative, asked me(before he made that comment) if I had heard of him, because she thought he was really good. lol

[Jayjen36]

Kanye West, needs that kind of publicity because he has no, as they used to call it, street cred. This guy is straight out of the suburbs, competeing with guys who were and (I believe) in some cases still are involved in gang activity. Even at a recent televised event there were Ice-T and Snoop Doggy Dogg flashing gang signs! So this guy is really on thin ice as it is. All of his "antics" give him a tiny bit more edge, although most of the people that I know still aren't buying it.

[Terri]

Kanye West doesn't have to worry about street cred. He's not that type of rapper. And you know, Snoop Dogg and IceT flash a lot of signs, but I'd be really surprised to find out that they were gang signs.

I wouldn't think that Kanye West's type of music would impress you, Mike.

I don't like Kanye West's attitude at all. I find him extremely arrogant and full of himself, and I don't like his music all that much either. He is an excellent writer and producer and his talent with that far exceeds his talent as a rapper.

[Jayjen36]

Well, from what I saw they did a lot of the "West side" thing, and a few others but I thought that I was a few old gang signs in there. But as it would be really stupid to do on national television you are probably right.:)

I've only seen one video of his "gold digger" or something like that. Didn't really like it.

[Krista]

Snoop was in a gang. The Crips

www.absoluteastronomy.com...p_dogg.htm (http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/encyclopedia/s/sn/snoop_dogg.htm)

Snoop Dogg was frequently in trouble with (A substance that is used as a medicine or narcotic) drugs and the law as a young man. As a member of a gang known as the (Click link for more info and facts about Crips) Crips, Snoop Dogg was in and out of (A correctional institution used to detain persons who are in the lawful custody of the government (either accused persons awaiting trial or convicted persons serving a sentence)) jail for the three years after he graduated from (A public secondary school usually including grades 9 through 12) high school. He began making homemade rap tapes with his friend (Click link for more info and facts about Warren G) Warren G, who was a stepbrother of (Click link for more info and facts about Dr. Dre) Dr. Dre of (Click link for more info and facts about N.W.A.) N.W.A.. Dr. Dre began collaborating with the young rapper, first on the theme song of the film (Click link for more info and facts about Deep Cover) Deep Cover, and then on Dr. Dre's debut solo album (Click link for more info and facts about The Chronic) The Chronic.

Snoop Dogg's contribution to The Chronic was considerable, the rapper's rhymes were as present as Dre's. The huge success of Snoop's debut (Click link for more info and facts about Doggystyle) Doggystyle is largely due to this intense exposure.

I remembered this from a documentary or backstory I saw on him. My friend was really into Tupac, Dr Dre, and Snoop when we were in high school as well.

[bjb22]

President Bush doesn't care about anybody, regardless of color.

The only color he care$ about is green and getting it for the elitists who put him in office. It is now obvious that a Republican POTUS is nothing more than an agent for the rich and powerful.

[Terri]

Yes, I know that Snoop was a gang member.

[Jayjen36]

So was Ice-T as well as a pimp. In fact there were a few rappers who were gang members (ex?) on stage at the event that I watched.

[EigthAv]

If Bush has no concerns for the po,why are us USA taxpayers going to foot a mega billion $$$$$$$ hurricane relief/reconstruction project??? It's not like he has to worry about re-election.The po white trash of America were the swing voters who put his butt back in DC.He better care about us.<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--> I've never condemned rap/hip-hop.It's not my cup of tea.So what? West Side Story was all about gangs.I didn't care for the movie,but did and do still like some of the "gang related" jazz.<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->Rudy Ray Moore was and is one of the most over the edge "street poets"/adult comedians in modern history and I am a Rudy fan. He has been a subject of study for some of our popular more modern rappers.Among his many classics is "Dolemite for President" which I admit was part of the inspiration for my 2000 Lipinski for President campaign.:lol The major difference in Rudy and Kanye is that Rudy will throw down on all of us,not just whitey.

[4dogknight]

Hey eighthav: Westside Story was all about Shakespeare - Romeo and Juliet's family factions. And you could also say that it was an updated version of the Hatfields and McCoys just for the rustic frame of mind.

4dk

[Terri]

Really, Mike? Who said that you condemned rap or hip hop?

I love Ice-T on Law and Order SVU.

[Krista]

Yeah he's very good on that :)

[kwancierto de aranjuez]

Kanye is not gangsta rap...

He's more on the Talib Kweli, Mos Def, Common tip for those who follow hip-hop...