Polls

[4dogknight]

After looking in a half dozen threads for the last poll discussion I decided to create a thread for all poll discussions.
I don't know about anyone else but it is easier for me to discuss topics when they are are one place.

Here's the most current published job approval rating for the president.

Poll: Bush approval ratings hit lowest point of tenure (http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-07-29-gallup-poll_x.htm)

{snip}
"President Bush's job approval ratings have hit the lowest point of his tenure and the number of Americans with an unfavorable opinion of him has reached 50% for the first time, according to a Gallup poll released Friday.

Forty-four percent of Americans approve of the way Bush is handling his job, according to the poll, while 51% disapprove. That is a four-point drop from Bush's approval rating of July 22-24 and 1% below his previous low of 45% in a poll taken June 24-26. Bush's approval ratings have now been at 50% or lower since mid-March."

{snip}
"The poll was based on telephone interviews with 1,010 adults. It has a margin of error of plus or minus 3 to 5 percentage points, depending on the question."

COMMENT: Some of the numbers on particular questions were interesting but hardly surprising to some of us. Belies the impact of all of the media reports about how the economy is doing and the direction in which the country is moving.

4dk

[4dogknight]

Poll: Most Americans feel vulnerable (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-08-08-pollvulnerable_x.htm)

{snip}
"American attitudes toward the war in Iraq continue to sour in the wake of last week's surge in U.S. troop deaths, a USA TODAY/CNN/Gallup Poll shows.
An unprecedented 57% majority say the war has made the United States more vulnerable to terrorism. The Bush administration has long argued that the key justification for invading Iraq was to make the United States safer from terrorist attacks. A new low, 34%, say the war has made the country safer.

The poll of 1,004 adults, taken Friday through Sunday, also finds that one in three say the United States should withdraw all troops from Iraq, another new high. The proportion who support maintaining troop levels or sending more troops also rose a bit, to 41%."

{snip}
"A 54% majority say going to war in Iraq was a mistake, equaling highs measured last summer when insurgent attacks were rising. The same proportion said the war was not "worth it." A majority of Americans have expressed that view since last October.

Residents of the East Coast were most likely to say the war hasn't made the United States safer. Those in the South were most likely to say it has made the country safer. The poll also found Bush's job approval at 45%, near his record low of 44% late last month."

COMMENT: I wonder if "those in the South" numbers would be different if the attack on 9/11 would have been made in Atlanta, New Orleans, Houston or Mobile?

4dk

[4dogknight]

Fewer Americans expect bin Laden to be caught (http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-08-09-bin-laden-poll_x.htm)

{snip}
"Nearly four years after the Sept. 11 attacks, Americans are less optimistic that Osama bin Laden will be captured or killed and say they believe al-Qaeda will remain a threat even if he is caught.
A USA TODAY/CNN/Gallup Poll taken Friday through Sunday also found that more than three-quarters of those surveyed say they believe bin Laden is planning a significant terrorist attack against the United States.

A majority, 53%, predict he will succeed.

Nearly seven out of eight say it remains important to the United States for bin Laden to be captured or killed.

Though bin Laden continues to have enormous symbolic value as the mastermind of 9/11, most Americans say his capture or death would do little to increase the nation's safety."

{snip}
"In the poll:

• A majority, 55%, say they believe U.S. forces are likely to kill or capture bin Laden. That's down from 66% a year ago and 78% just after Sept. 11, 2001.

• Almost everyone surveyed, 92%, says al-Qaeda would remain a threat even if bin Laden were captured or killed.

• More than a third, 35%, say their fire, police and emergency services are not well prepared for a terrorist attack. Sixty-two percent say their local authorities are prepared.

• Confidence that the war on terrorism is going well has dropped to 51% from 65% in December 2003.

The poll has a margin of error of +/—3 to 5 percentage points."

COMMENT: With the plan to add troops in Iraq to safeguard the Iraq elections and the saber rattling at Iran does not bode well for an intensified or any other kind of search for Bin Laden/al-Qaeda. Could it be that our priorities were and continue to be mismanaged?

4dk

[4dogknight]

Public remains anxious over economy, war (http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-08-13-bush-economy-anxiety_x.htm)

{snip}
"The war in Iraq and the soaring price of gasoline are drowning out a succession of positive reports on the economy, putting President Bush on the defensive at a time when he could be basking in good economic news.

Despite months of economic growth, tame inflation, resurgent job growth and an unemployment rate near a four-year low, public approval of Bush's handling of the economy is at the lowest levels of his presidency.

That has left his supporters perplexed over why Bush hasn't gotten more credit for the improving economy."

{snip}
"Since we know that unemployment is not very high, the only inference we can draw is that they are complaining about the quality of jobs that are available."

"There is a fair degree of discontent among middle-income people," he added.

Rising gasoline prices are a major source of economic anxiety for many Americans, "and they see Bush's Middle East policy as part of the problem," said Standard and Poor's chief economist David Wyss.

Oil prices have hit a new high of nearly $67 a barrel. Adjusting for inflation, oil hasn't been this high since the early 1980s, when prices peaked at the inflation-adjusted equivalent of just over $90 a barrel.

That had political consequences Bush might want to bear in mind, Wyss said. "Remember Jimmy Carter?"

President Carter lost his re-election bid in 1980 to Ronald Reagan, in part because of energy-price distress and the holding of U.S. hostages in Iran.

Bush doesn't have to worry about re-election. But other Republicans do, and they're getting increasingly nervous about both rising energy prices and continued U.S. deaths in Iraq."

4dk

[manskater]

<a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8679162/" target="_new">www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8679162/</a>
Poll: More say Iraq war hurting war on terrorGrowing number of Americans fear increased risk of attacks in this country

4dk -- here is a similar poll. This White House as usual does not have a clue.

[4dogknight]

Bush popularity at all-time low, poll finds (http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-08-26-bush-poll_x.htm)

{snip}
"President Bush's popularity has sunk to the lowest levels of his presidency, the Gallup poll organization said Friday.

In poll results released Friday afternoon, the president's approval rating was 40%, the lowest in his presidency by 4 points.

The poll of 1,007 adults was conducted Monday through Thursday, a period overlapping the president's series of speeches defending his Iraq war policies.

Those surveyed in the poll included 29% Republicans and 35% Democrats."

COMMENT: Read the entire article for detailed information.

4dk

[4dogknight]

Bush’s approval rating falls to new low (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9137364/)
53 percent say they disapprove of president in new Post-ABC survey

{snip}
"Rising gas prices and ongoing bloodshed in Iraq continue to take their toll on President Bush, whose standing with the public has sunk to an all-time low, according to the latest Washington Post-ABC News poll.

The survey found Bush's job approval rating at 45 percent, down seven points since January and the lowest ever recorded for the president in Post-ABC surveys. Fifty-three percent disapproved of the job Bush is doing.

The war has been a drag on Bush's presidency for many months, but his Iraq approval ratings in the new poll were little changed from two months ago, despite widespread violence, a rash of U.S. casualties, antiwar protests outside the president's Texas ranch and a growing debate about reducing U.S. troop levels.

What may have pushed Bush's overall ratings down in the latest poll is pervasive dissatisfaction over soaring gasoline prices. Two-thirds of those surveyed said gas prices are causing financial hardship to them or their families. Gas prices stand to go even higher after Hurricane Katrina's rampage through the oil-rich Gulf of Mexico.

More ominously for the president, six in 10 Americans said there are steps the administration could take to reduce gas prices. Slightly more than a third say the recent run-up has been due to factors beyond the administration's control."

{snip}
"Bad news for Congress, Democrats, too
The poll numbers paint a portrait of national frustration with the direction and leadership of the country, which, if not reversed in coming months, is likely to color the environment for next year's midterm elections, putting incumbents in both parties on the defensive.

Dissatisfaction is not limited to the president. Fewer than four in 10 Americans -- 37 percent -- approve of the way the Republican-controlled Congress is doing its job, the lowest rating for lawmakers in nearly eight years.

The survey also provided bad news for Democratic leaders, who are judged as offering Bush only tepid opposition. Slightly more than half of those surveyed expressed dissatisfaction with congressional Democrats for not opposing Bush more aggressively.

Self-identified Democrats were particularly impatient. More than three in four said congressional Democrats have not gone far enough to oppose Bush on Iraq or on administration policies in general.

"Somebody needs to speak up," said Michelle Burgess, 41, a home health aide in St. Louis. "Enough is enough. I don't understand why we're over there in Iraq or what he's doing on other issues. There are too many lives being lost."

Independents were similarly dissatisfied with Democratic leaders for not challenging the president over the war and other issues, with six in 10 saying Democrats have been too meek."

{snip}
"The poll found that opposition to the war has deepened among Democrats. Two months ago, two in three Democrats said they strongly disapproved of Bush's handling of Iraq; that has risen to three in four. Over that same period, the proportion of Democrats who described themselves as "angry" over Bush's Iraq policies has risen from 36 percent to 46 percent.

The poll found that Sheehan's activities may have helped increase support for the war among Bush supporters. Although eight in 10 Americans said Sheehan's protests have not changed their attitudes toward the war, one in 10 said she has made them more likely to support the conflict -- the same proportion that said she has made them less likely to support the war.

A total of 1,006 randomly selected adults were interviewed by telephone Aug. 25-28. The margin of sampling error for the results is plus or minus three percentage points."


4dk

[EigthAv]

I only have an answer to one of our problems.Fuel.Answer? Conserve-conserve-conserve! Abolish motor racing altogether.Figure skating makes far more sense in the 21st century.Ban flagrant "joyriding". Stop enabling your kids to be flagrant fuel wasters.Buy them bicycles,rather than sports cars,suvs and pickups for their 16th b-days.Teach them how to use buses and trains.Preach against frequent long trips rather than promoting the hobby.We could turn the tables on the petrol potentates.The wasters are making it hard on everyone.Then ya'll could hate Bush even more for killing our culture.<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->I hear that in some corners,folks are blaming Katrina on Bush.Was he supposed to play Superman and somehow stop it from hitting the gulf coast? I live far inland,in Montgomery and even so,I had the common sense to bottle up some water and make sure we had enough non perishable food for at least a couple of days. The domino effect will probably send Bush's "he's cool" number into single digit land.He should have built New Orleans a new water wall as soon as he took over. Better still,he could have put the nation's most brilliant scientists to work inventing a force field which could be activated at any moment anywhere in the North American continent to protect people from hurricanes,tornadoes,nukes and hijacked commercial jets.He blew it. <!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->I'm considering running for the 2008 Presidential election.The majority of the USA are po folks and they will be the target of my olde fashioned "let's stop the insanity" campaign. Perot was correct.The demos and repos are clueless.

[moxie]

I hear that in some corners,folks are blaming Katrina on Bush.

Just where did you hear this & who are these "folks"?

[EigthAv]

It's hearsay Moxie.I heard it from one of my lawn service customers. It goes with the territory.A sitting President usually gets credit for positives such as economic booms and military success.He also get blamed for negative things.It is shameful that the USA is having to assign a HUGE military prescence down south partly to handle lawlessness and stop people from preying on other people.Before Bush gave the first green light to begin the invasion of Iraq,I'd long been suggesting that the USA use military resources to clean up our own "backyard". Now such a move is must rather than an option.Pull the covers off and you will see that our own homegrown terrorists are a potentially much greater threat than the foreign variety.Most of us want to help the victims.Some of us want to exploit the disaster.Price gouging greedmeisters are just as guilty as the looters and the shooters.It's not a right/left thing.It's America.<!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END--><!--EZCODE BR START--><!--EZCODE BR END-->Tough choices to be made.You'll be able to watch on tv and some of it will make Dawn of the Dead and Sin City look like fairy tales.

[4dogknight]

72% Say Gas Scalping Is Tied to Storm (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/03/AR2005090301164.html?referrer=email&referrer=email)

{snip}
"An overwhelming majority of Americans believe oil and gas companies are gouging consumers in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina but offer mixed reviews of President Bush and the government's initial response to the deadly storm, according to the latest Washington Post-ABC News poll.

The survey conducted Friday night found that 72 percent of the respondents say oil companies and gas suppliers have taken advantage of the storm emergency by raising gasoline prices, which spiked virtually overnight last week to $3 dollars a gallon or more in many areas. Eight in 10 say the federal government's handling of surging gas prices was "not so good" or "poor," the survey found."

{snip}
"The survey also found that Americans were sharply divided over the performance of Bush and local, state and federal governments in the aftermath of Monday's storm. Slightly less than half -- 46 percent -- approve of the way Bush has handled relief efforts while 47 percent disapprove, a result that might offer some cheer to beleaguered White House staffers who feared a stronger negative reaction.

The early response got equally mixed reviews, with 48 percent rating the federal effort as excellent or good and 51 percent saying it was not so good or poor -- views deeply colored by party affiliation. According to the poll, 68 percent of Democrats rated the government's performance as "not so good" or "poor," while 66 percent of Republicans judged it to be "excellent" or "good." This finding shows this national emergency has not united Americans the way the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, did.

Slightly more than four in 10 say the government response revealed serious problems in federal emergency preparedness overall, while a majority (54 percent) disagreed."

COMMENT: I think everyone has an opinion on the fuel thingy and on the handling of the "natural disaster" in the south so I'll not comment here. Of course I disagree heartily with the homemaker in Florida panhandle; if it were her home how would she react - not the way she reacted when it was someone else's home I'll bet!

4dk

[madison]

a 'poor' rating.
<a href="http://www.rasmussenreports.com/2005/Katrina.htm" target="_new">www.rasmussenreports.com/2005/Katrina.htm</a>

"Fed Response to Katrina Gets Thumbs Down"

[EigthAv]

I think Bush is doing what he can in a bad situation.The ever popular Venuzeulan President announced today that American is going down and expressed that this will be a good thing for Latin America.Sri Lanka has donated aid to Katrina relief.Most victims who are receiving aid are appreciative.Folks who hate Bush and look for ammunition to spread the hate are having a field day with Katrina aftermath.........and the World turns.

[4dogknight]

8A: Cite your source re. the Venuzeulan President's remarks.

4dk

[madison]

YES, 8a,
I would also like to know whatever became of the Venezuelan 'dictator's' (Chavez) offer of assistance and gasoline. Did the US thumb their respective noses in his face?

Did your info come from Faux News?

[4dogknight]

President's approval rating dips below 40 (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-09-10-bush-approval_x.htm)

{snip}
"President Bush's job approval has dipped below 40% for the first time in the AP-Ipsos poll, reflecting widespread doubts about his handling of gasoline prices and the response to Hurricane Katrina.

Nearly four years after Bush's job approval soared into the 80s after the terrorist attacks on Sept. 11, 2001, Bush was at 39 percent job approval in an AP-Ipsos poll taken this week. That's the lowest since the the poll was started in December 2003.

The public's view of the nation's direction has grown increasingly negative as well, with nearly two-thirds now saying the country is heading down the wrong track."

{snip}
"The number of people who think the country is on the wrong track grew from 59 percent last month to 65 percent this month. Tumbling consumer confidence after Hurricane Katrina may be contributing to that sense of pessimism.

The RBC CASH Index, based on polling by Ipsos, showed that consumer confidence sank in September to the lowest level since early March 2003 before the start of the Iraq war.

Economic woes and a continuing war in Iraq have been complicated by the continuing hurricane recovery crisis.

"A lot of Americans don't pay attention to their leaders on a day-to-day basis," said Robert Blendon, a public opinion analyst at Harvard's Kennedy School of Government. "They measure presidents, governors and mayors on how they handle big events like a hurricane. This event is not over because the bodies are going to be discovered day by day."

COMMENT: Anyone remember the presidential campaign when Bush (HW) was asked the price of a gallon of milk and/or the price of a loaf of bread and he had no idea? Well for some reason I see a correlation between that generation and this and the typical BushCo response to challenging events.

4dk

[4dogknight]

80% say terrorism threat the same or worse as 2001 (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-09-10-terrorism-polls_x.htm)

This is such a short article I'm going to snip the whole thing.

"The Associated Press
Eight in 10 people in the U.S. think the threat from terrorism is about the same or has grown worse than it was at the time of the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, a poll found.
About half think the threat is at the same level and three in 10 say it has grown worse, a CBS News poll found.

Other recent findings:

• Six in 10 say they have confidence in the government's ability to protect citizens from terrorism, down from seven in 10 who felt that way before Hurricane Katrina hit. — CBS News.

• People are evenly split on whether they are satisfied with the way things are going in the war on terrorism with 51% satisfied, 49% dissatisfied. — CNN-USA TODAY-Gallup.

• Four in 10 say their life changed after Sept. 11 and they do not expect it will return to normal. — CNN-USA TODAY-Gallup.

• About 57% of those surveyed say they are worried the government will not be able to provide assistance in case of a natural disaster or terrorist attack. —Time magazine.

The CBS polling was done Aug. 29-31 of 871 adults and Sept. 6-7 of 725 adults and has a margin of error of plus or minus 3 percentage points for late August and 4 percentage points for September. The CNN-USA TODAY-Gallup poll was conducted Aug. 28-30 and the Time poll was conducted Sept. 7-8 Both the Gallup and Time polls of about 1,000 adults have a margin of error of plus or minus 3 percentage points."

COMMENT: I just want to say that I do feel safer when those infants and toddlers with the same names as those on the do not board list are prevented from boarding an airliner! Why who knows what kind of mischief they could get into. Thanks Homeland Security for making flying commercial aircraft safe from rampaging toddlers. Now if only they could do something about the rampaging Giant Prehistoric Zucchini (an "in" joke for those of us who follow Dave Barry).

4dk

[manskater]

www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9672058/ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9672058/)
Bush approval dips below 40 percent
NBC-WSJ poll shows only 28 percent believe U.S. headed in right direction

Thank God people in this country are beginning to wake up. This president and his friends, Cheney, Frist, Delay and Rove deserve to be thrown out of office.>:

[4dogknight]

manskater, thanks for posting the article. I was even depressing myself posting the latest polls for this administration and isn't that a surprising turn of events.

4dk

[madison]

4dk and manskater,
My older brother once told me a story he had learned from our trusted Supt. of Schools.
Mr. Buckner said, "If you want to go after someone and make them 'fess up, you don't run after them.
You wait by the gate, and stick your foot out when they come running through."

An approval rating of 39% is trouble at the gate; an approval rating of 2% of African-Americans is disasterous.
(source: LOU DOBBS - the long-time Republican turned American hero)

[Ogre Mage]

The polls I have been looking at show a spread of 37%-42% job approval rating for President Bush. Overall, that's about a 39% approval rating, which is bordering on disaster.

There is no singular reason for the slide. Multiple factors include:

1. The administration's slow and extremely dysfunctional response to Hurricane Katrina, which cost lives.
2. Continuing violence and instability in Iraq with little signs of the situation improving. The conventional wisdom is now that the Bush Administration's management of the war effort has been egregiously poor.
3. Outrageous gas prices which will be even worse with winter looming ahead.
4. An economy which while showing signs of improvement this year, still remains shaky for middle and lower income people.
5. A civil war among conservatives over the Harriet Myers nomination.
6. The ongoing investigation of senior White House officials over the outing of CIA agent Valerie Plame.
7. Allegations of reportedly illegal activites of Republican leadership in Congress (Frist, DeLay).
8. Large federal deficits, aggravated by the war effort and Bush's irresponsible tax cuts.
9. Bush's Social Security "plan" (and I use the word loosely).

Perhaps just one or two of these would not indicate a serious problem. Together, the picture painted is one of corruption, arrogance and complete incompetence.

Once Bush vetoes Sen. John McCain's (R-AZ.) anti-torture bill (http://www.thenation.com/blogs/actnow?bid=4&pid=28812) and the federal funding for stem-cell research bill, I expect his numbers to drop even further.

[4dogknight]

Okay here's a recent poll and there's no good news for anyone.

Mood is sour on Bush, Congress (http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-10-25-poll_x.htm)

When you read the above, don't forget to also access the related articles links.

COMMENT: Is the pendulum finally swinging back to middle or as I see it, sanity?

4dk

[madison]

4dk,
One can only hope:CK

[4dogknight]

Bush faces strongest public disapproval rate (http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-11-04-bush-poll_x.htm)

{snip}
"The president has lost support from some key groups of constituents over the past year. He's dropped 16 points in his approval rating with men in that time, 18 points with people who have a high school education or less, 16 points among Southerners and 13 points among Republicans.

The poll was conducted by telephone Oct. 31-Nov. 2 among 1,006 adults nationwide. The margin on sampling error is plus or minus 3 percentage points.

Congress isn't faring much better. In early October, 35% of poll respondents approved of the job being done on Capitol Hill, down from 44% in February.

In December 2004, soon after Bush's re-election, 51% approved of his handling of his job, while 47 disapproved, and 28 disapproved strongly."

COMMENT: What's left to say? Take off the rose colored glasses and face the music? The handwriting is on the wall - read it!

4dk

[4dogknight]

President's ratings hit new low in poll (http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-11-14-poll_x.htm)

{snip}
"Americans' views of President Bush and his trustworthiness have hit new lows, a downturn that could make it more difficult for him to push his legislative agenda and to boost Republican candidates in next year's congressional elections.

Fewer than one in 10 adults say they would prefer a congressional candidate who is a Republican and who agrees with Bush on most major issues, according to a USA TODAY/CNN/Gallup Poll taken Friday through Sunday. Even among Republicans, seven of 10 are most likely to back a candidate who has at least some disagreements with the president.

Bush's job approval rating sank to a record low 37%. The poll finds growing criticism of the president, unease about the nation's direction and opposition to the Iraq war.

"All of this is a culmination: How we ended up going into Iraq, gasoline prices, the underlying economic jitters, the sense that the president is out of touch with what the average person wants," Republican pollster Tony Fabrizio says. "What good news have people heard?"

{snip}
"In the poll:

• Two-thirds of independents and 91% of Democrats disapprove of the job Bush is doing. Even among Republicans, who have solidly backed Bush in the past, 19% express disapproval — a new high.

• For the first time — albeit by a narrow 49%-48% — a plurality disapprove of the way Bush is handling the issue of terrorism. Six in 10 disapprove of the way he's handling foreign affairs, the economy, Iraq and immigration, and 71% disapprove of him on controlling federal spending.

• A 53% majority say they trust what Bush says less than they trusted previous presidents while they were in office. In a specific comparison with President Clinton, those surveyed by 48%-36% say they trust Bush less.

• A record high 60% say going to war in Iraq was "not worth it." In a finding consistent with previous polls, 54% say it was "a mistake" to send troops there."

COMMENT: "There is no joy in Muddville tonight."
I do wish these reporters/editors would try to find different verbiage for their headlines. I am so tired of reading Bush, Rating and New Low in the same headline.

4dk

[JerryStopher]

Just where did you hear this & who are these "folks"?
Don'tch'all know that everything is Bush's fault? :lol


I want a siggy!

[4dogknight]

From usatoday - today:

Poll: Public uneasy with GOP leadership (http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-01-07-gop-midterm-election_x.htm)

{snip}
"Dissatisfied with the nation's direction, Americans are leaning toward wanting a change in which political party leads Congress — preferring that Democrats take control, an AP-Ipsos poll found. Democrats are favored over Republicans 49% to 36%.

The polling came as disgraced lobbyist Jack Abramoff pleaded guilty to tax evasion, fraud and corruption charges and agreed to aid a federal investigation of members of Congress and other government officials.

President Bush's job approval remains low — 40% in the AP-Ipsos poll, with only one-third saying the country is headed in the right direction. Bush also remains low on his handling of Iraq, where violence against Iraqis and U.S. troops has been surging.

"I just don't like the direction our country is going in," said Steve Brown, a political independent from Olympia, Wash. "I think a balance of power would be beneficial right now."

Republicans are watching the situation unfold with some nervousness."

COMMENT: Proves Foucault, Michel (1926-1984) correct.

4dogknight

[JerryStopher]

COMMENT: Proves Foucault, Michel (1926-1984) correct.

4dogknight
No fair, 4dk! Tell us about Michel Foucault, so we can see your point! ;)

[4dogknight]

Gee Jerry - got Google?

Actually there are a couple of Foucaults that apply here; one Michel and the other Leon. Very different eras, life styles and methodology.

4dk

[JerryStopher]

Whatever ...