Sleaves on MK for 2006!!

[Nathan]

In general I prefer sleaves in ladies skating. I think they give the skater a nicer line, and really help to accentuate and soften the arms.

What sleaves do for dancers/skaters/and everyone else: They even out your arm line, and cover the groves, curves, and ridges we all have in our arms. It covers the muscle contractions and just shows the extention.

And I have always LOVED Michelle in sleaves. Especially sleaves that don't taper at the wrist but blow out, like her 97 DOD dress. TOTALLY ELEGANT. I'm actually surprised she doesn't wear sleaves more often because she doesn't like the cold on the ice.

That's not to say that Michelle's sleaveless outfits have been frocks, for me it's just an aesthetic preference. Like I'd rather watch her 97 Worlds SP of DOD which was flawed, then watch her 96 perfect DOD which was short sleaves.

I WISH Michelle's dress next year included sleaves, but I know they haven't always been the best of luck for her skating.

Here's hoping next years dress is a winning outfit with sleaves!

[kwanette]

Who cursed "sleeves"?

[Nathan]

Who said anything about "Cursed?"

[lavender]

but I know they haven't always been the best of luck for her skating.


Luck...curse..

[ILOVEMWK]

I can see where Netaphame is coming from when she says that sleeves haven't always given Michelle the best of luck. She wore long sleeves for DOD at '97 Worlds, correct? And I know she was upset with that performance and missing her combination. IIRC, Michelle also wore long sleeves for Carmen at '99 Worlds when she botched a jump.
Of course, we have to keep in mind the good times that Michelle wore sleeves. She did quite a bit throughout her younger years, including her pink dress that she placed 8th at '94 Worlds and 2nd at '94 Nationals in - a breakthrough season of sorts. She also skated to Kissing You and This Time Around in long sleeves, and I know those were two beautiful programs.
Anyone else remember other times Michelle has worn long sleeves?

[edenlover]

One of her best performances of Bolero this season was in the long-sleeved purple dress at the Tampa cheesefest. Of course, I also loved Boleo's debut in the sleeveless lavender dress as well.

[berthesghost]

I say no to sleeves because it's painfully obvious to even the most dense observer that she doesn't like them. Why saddle her with something that she either finds uncomfortable, unattractive, or bad luck, or all 3!

[Emerald2000]

I thought her "This Time Around" Dress was gorgeous, and it had sleeves. I think it could be nice if she wore them again, even though many of her most beautiful dresses haven't had them.

[chipso1]

I really liked her long-sleeved purple Bolero. It was very elegant with the sparklies on it, but also very simple (which made it even more nice, IMO).

That said, Michelle has often stated that she doesn't really feel comfortable in sleeves, so I'm all for another sleeveless dress next year - she really wears them well.:)

:SJ

[kwanette]

Nate, You did. Obviously you edited the title of your original thread at 1:06 PM..Where else would I have gotten the title of my response?:rolleyes

[synnabun]

Although sleeves are gorgeous on MK... I'd rather she be comfortable. She looks taller when wearing sleeves and her line looks better. ... but I'd rather see something without sleeves! She seems more free like that.

Anyway! (dude.. the bolero slide piccy isn't working!)

~Bons

[skatingfan5]

Michelle has shown her preference for sleeveless dresses many times -- iirc the original "Red Violin" dress wasn't supposed to be the final one. That final version, which did have long sleeves, Michelle never wore -- she said it was "too heavy" or "too hot" or something like that. Anyway, the one she did wear for all performances of the program (from debut at '99 Worlds exhibitions through her wonderful win in Nice the following year) was one of my favorites -- gorgeous color and fabric and just the right amount of understated trim. It was perfect.

I actually think that Michelle's arms look better when they aren't encased in sleeves, and that long sleeves seem to make her proportions more top-heavy -- and her legs shorter by comparison. I like the look of her sleeveless dresses and it seems that she mainly agrees. As a middle-ground, I liked the short-sleeved and 3/4 length sleeves of some of her dresses. Romanza was another of my favorites -- and the sleeves really added to the overall effect.

[mrstbythesea]

You're exactly right kwanette. The post was edited.

And it's sleeve ... not sleave.

[tongueincheek]

I agree with you SF5. There are some skaters, including Michelle, Karen Kwan, Peggy Fleming, and Kristi Yamaguchi to name but a few, who look fabulous in sleeveless or partially sleeved dresses because they have such lovely, lyrical arms. I've always called them "Peggy Fleming arms."
When skaters like this have arms and hands that move so beautifully, I think it adds to the overall beauty of the program to have them bare.

Some skaters hate wearing sleeves, but should. I think of Tonya Harding, who hated sleeves, but who looked - well, not great - in some of her sleeveless costumes, like that purple (http://www.charliesweb.com/tonya/gallery/skatphot/skate07.jpg) thing (http://www.charliesweb.com/tonya/gallery/tnphot/tn02.jpg) she wore at 1994 Nationals, and that red (http://www.charliesweb.com/tonya/olympics/olympicphot/tonyalil2.jpg) hoochie-mama dress (http://www.charliesweb.com/tonya/gallery/skatphot/skate03.jpg) she used in a short program. Now I will say that whoever designed the dresses (http://www.charliesweb.com/tonya/mittan/9200900.jpg) she wore throughout the 1991-1992 season did a great job of giving her no sleeves, but some attractive trim at the shoulder that flattered her shoulders and arms and made her look ladylike despite the lack of sleeves.

[lavender]

Nate, You did. Obviously you edited the title of your original thread at 1:06 PM..Where else would I have gotten the title of my response?

Hilarious.

[The Red Moose]

If my arms were as well toned as Michelle's, I'd never wear sleeves!

[Sparks]

Me neither, Red Moose! ;)

Natefame - may I make a suggestion? Since you seem to start a lot of threads that ask for people to choose among several options, could you please post them all in the Polling section of MKF? That way, if people are interested in your scenarios and want to vote and comment, they can find all your threads there.

Sparks, who isn't wearing any sleeves today because it's so darn hot...

[Nathan]

Lord...

You people are getting pretty desparate now a days...

any time you feel the need to continually bring up things like spelling which on many occassions I've said I don't care about it.

and I did re-edit my post to take the word "curse" out because I thought it was misleading. Is that allowed?

it's like your a pack of kids that needs to get together to gang up on the other kid who gets on your nerve. But you dont' really have anything meaningful to say so you start picking at anything you can. At least criticize me for some of my more significant flaws, of which there are many.

Anyway...Back to the post...

I think it might be some East Coast-West coast things too. I think West coast peeps are more likely to go with the sleeveless look. While some east coast people might see sleeves as prettier.

I never knew Michelle was uncomfortable in sleeves. well she's gotta go with what she feels best in.

[berthesghost]

"Why Must Sleaves on MK be cursed when they're so elegant
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Who said anything about "Cursed?" "

:rollin Classic!

[missmarysgarden]

Mainly because...she obviously prefers not to wear them.

Also, because michelle does have quite long arms proportionally to her body and legs. The sleeveless look somehow improves the proportion.

And I agree with Red Moose - if I had arms like hers - perfectly toned, but not overmade, supple, graceful - I wouldn't even wear sleeves in the winter!

[kwanette]

Nate, Of course you don't care about spelling...and, obviously, you don't care much about the truth either.

[Nathan]

It was the title of the thread for 5 minutes.

I was going for melodrama, but it read to negatively, so I changed it.

Kwanette was a little too quick on the REPLY button...


are people here really adults?? I'm serious... because many of you are more than twice my age (22) with families, careers, and mortgages and you bully people adolescents.

That's what I think is funny... I'd fill in a few smiley's but I find them to be corny and overused.

[kwanluv]

careful

[GinnySmith]

Consider the timeline....

1:04 PM - Nate 8o Posts with word cursed in thread title.

1:06 PM - kwanette :angel Replies asking Who cursed "sleeves"?

1:06 PM - Nate 8o edits thread title to removed word "cursed".

1:19 PM - Nate 8o replies to kwanette, "Who said anything about cursed"?

No comment. I guess it's easy for some to forget what they wrote and erased within 13 minutes. I guess being young doesn’t guarantee good short-term memory.

[kwanette]

Nate, then why didn't you just admit that you changed the original thread title..instead of trying to make a poster appear to be crazy? (That poster is already that...)

I was curious about the word "cursed", that's all..

I like MK w or w/o sleeves...I loved her black DOD dress and her last Bolero dress..But I love her "jock-look" dresses..Rach 98, 02, Tosca purple...

[Nathan]

Who are you warning Kwanluv?? Is it me?? The person who post a small fluff thread about "sleeves" and ends up getting bullied by the usual clan?

Is this what I'm in for? I can see if post a thread that might cause a reaction, fine...then come after me, I have no problem with that.

But why do it in threads like this?

I'm really curious? What are people trying to do? Are they trying to ultimately beat me into submission, by making little remarks here and there in every thread I write in to make me eventually run away crying?


Are you trying to make me feel bad about myself, or feel stupid?

I don't get it... for example...what you have to gain by coming into this thread and calling me on something as menial as spelling?? What are you trying to accomplish?


I'd really like to know.

Just so you don't have to ask me I'll tell you. I have no negative agenda's. I just like coming around to have really great discussions about the sport I love. That's all.. I'm not out to destroy anything, or anyone. I'm not trying to bring down the MKForum, and it's members. I couldn't do that even If I wanted to because it's to strong. I just like talking about skating in fair, frank, and honest ways...that's it. Most of times unfortunately in my quests, my discussions turn into bicker-fest like this thread. I just wanted to have a fun, unserious discussion about Michelle's costumes...but I couldn't even have that....

kwanette I'm sorry I lied to you I shouldn't have done that but I didnt' think it'd be a big deal..I just wanted that CURSED word to go away because FOR ONCE I wanted to start a thread that didn't turn into Natephame VS the MKForum. but I guess some people couldn't even let me have that much...

keep in mind even villain's have feelings...

[MKGrace]

I hope Michelle wears a dress with sleeves for the long program. She's so elegant in sleeves and I agree their perfect for her body line. That would make a stunningly beautiful picture of her with her gold medal on the podium (of course she could wear a potato sack and look gorgeous on top of the Olympic podium <img border=0 src="http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/tongue.gif" />). Given the fact she prefers sleeveless I expect she'll go with that for at least one of the programs. I think a sleeveless short program dress and a long-sleeved free skate dress would be a perfect combination.

Now quick!! Hurry up and waste your disk space copying and saving my post in the event I decide to edit it later. That way you can repost my comments and be right - this is IMPORTANT stuff after all!! <img border=0 src="http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/eek.gif" /><img border=0 src="http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/tongue.gif" />

[kwanette]

MKGrace, Glad that you're not talking to me..I don't know how to copy and save, just read...

[Sparks]

Natefame,
Kwanluv is a moderator here at MKF. If you have some personal issues or if you would like to complain, wouldn't it be better and more civilized to take it to PM?

[MKGrace]

kwanette- With all the rampant editing going on around here, you may find it valuable to learn.

[skatingfan5]

I just like talking about skating in fair, frank, and honest ways...that's it. Most of times unfortunately in my quests, my discussions turn into bicker-fest like this thread. I just wanted to have a fun, unserious discussion about Michelle's costumes...but I couldn't even have that....

kwanette I'm sorry I lied to you I shouldn't have done that but I didnt' think it'd be a big deal..I just wanted that CURSED word to go away because FOR ONCE I wanted to start a thread that didn't turn into Natephame VS the MKForum. but I guess some people couldn't even let me have that much...

keep in mind even villain's have feelings... Oh good grief! It wouldn't have been "Natephame vs. MKF" if you had just done what you say you want to do -- talk about skating in "fair, frank, and honest ways." If you edited out the "cursed" what was the big deal about admitting that you had second thoughts? Why pretend that you hadn't done it and try to make it look as if someone had just pulled the word out of thin air. If you really had been straigthforward and honest there wouldn't have been anything more than a discussion about sleeves. Sheesh! It's major contradictions like these between someone's posted words and their actions that cause others to doubt their intentions.

[kwanette]

MKGrace, I'm too old to learn..

[mr pru]

Lying is an obvious sign of immaturity.

[MKGrace]

C'mon!! You're young enough to keep up with the threads and particular comments on this ultra-busy forum and you seem to know a lot of the posters and there are a lot of them..you could pick it up in a jiffy if you wanted to.

[sorry for off topic]

[kwanluv]

Exactly skatingfan5.

Nate, you created this situation yourself, so you have nobody to be upset with...but yourself. (shrug)

And the "careful" was a warning to you, as you were bordering on name-calling to others in the thread. Please don't lash out out on kwanette or others...not cool.



Now, if the discussion can continue on sleeves...fine, and if it can't, it will be closed.

[lemonade16]

missmarys: Very interesting observation. I had to check some photos of Michelle out to see what you meant. I know you have a good eye for these things due to gymnastics. I had never noticed! My arms are rather long also. I guess I need to stick with the sleeveless look!

As others have said, since Michelle has always stated a preference for sleeveless dresses, than that's what I would like to see her in.

lemonade16

[berthesghost]

I want to know more about this mysterious 2nd TRV costume. Was it another Jef creation? Has anyone actually seen it? Inquiring minds want to know.

[lemonade16]

Berthes, I think some posters speculated that Michelle wore the other TRV dress as a practice dress at a later point. I'll see if I can find the pic, but it was sort of maroon in color with silver diagonal stripes (bad description). It's the photo of Michelle standing at the boards with Frank, who is sort of adjusting Michelle's posture (another bad description; I have no idea what he was doing :lol ).

It was only speculation, but the dress was rather gorgeous to be "only" a practice dress.

lemonade16

[mr pru]

The truth has never been Nate's friend.

Ginny and kwanette-

You're wasting your time. I admire your determination but the truth will never be admitted.

One day he will step over the line and the mods will act.

[taf]

I remember that dress Lemonade. It was gorgeous in the front but the back was entirely made of fake flesh. IIRC, it didn't have any sleeves.

[lemonade16]

taf2002: No sleeves? Oh well, I am probably delusional :) I didn't remember the fake flesh either :lol For some reason, I thought the had sleeves, but they were sheer. I couldn't find the photo. If anyone can find it, it's worth a look. A really beautiful, flattering dress (at least from the front). I'm thinking she wore it during 2001 Worlds practice?

lemonade16

[kwanette]

I thought that the "other TRV" dress had sleeves. Am I Kwanfused? I would love to see a picture of it.

[lemonade16]

No, kwanette, I am the confused one around here! :lol

I was referencing a photo (skatingfan5 seems to be able to find photos, please help us! :) ) that showed Michelle is a deep maroon practice dress with Frank by the boards. I'm sure you've seen it. When the photo surfaced, around 2001 I believe, there was some discussion/speculation here at MKF that perhaps this dress was the "other" TRV dress that Michelle never wore.

But then taf2002 in her post on this thread indicated that this particular dress didn't have sleeves, as far as she recalled. So, the dress to which I was referring was probably not the other TRV dress.

Sorry for the confusion.

lemonade16
Edited to add: Michelle definitely said that the other TRV dress had sleeves. I am sure of that.

[kwanette]

lemonade, I do remember (I think) a discussion about a second dress with long sleeves...

[skatingfan5]

lemonade 16: Sorry that I can't find the picture you are talking about -- I know exactly which one it is, Michelle is on the left of the photo, talking to Frank at the boards. It shows the back of the dress, iirc. Anyway, that picture I'm pretty sure was from a 2001 Worlds practice session. I think the same dress was the one that Michelle used for her EOE SP at the Goodwill Games 6 months later. Here are the only two photos I could find for now of that -- neither show the back, but I think you can get a fair idea of the color:
www.usatoday.com/sports/g...06kwan.jpg (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/gallery/goodwill/06kwan.jpg)
www.goodwillgames.com/200..._hires.jpg (http://www.goodwillgames.com/2001_Gallery/images/09-06-01/fig/kwan1_hires.jpg)

The other "Red Violin" dress may remain a mystery -- it reportedly did have long sleeves, and I can't think that I've ever seen anything that would have fit that description.

[kwanette]

SF5, thanks for the pics..That is a beautiful dress.

[lemonade16]

skatingfan5, thanks! :) Yep, that's the dress and sure enough it didn't have sleeves.

I think you're right that the long-sleeved "other" TRV dress will remain a mystery.

(But it really frustrates me knowing that there's a dress out there somewhere that we all haven't seen!! :lol )

lemonade16

[handlem9z]

One of her best performances of Bolero this season was in the long-sleeved purple dress at the Tampa cheesefest.

I was in Tampa and still can't remember what she was wearing...I'm still in a trance from seeing her perform. :D

Was the dress purple??? It looks kind of like a dark blue to me.

My personal preference is the short sleeve. Like her to show off the toned arms. Goes very well with the toned legs, stomach...heck toned everything.

[edenlover]

I made the comment about the purple dress, and it
very well could have been blue--I wasn't there, and TV doesn't always give true colors, if you know what I mean. It did sparkle! It was elegant and simple as are most of her costumes.

I agree with those who believe that she should wear what she thinks is comfortable in.

[Cole50]

What are sleaves?

[scheherazade]

Cole: :lol :rollin

[Eeyora]

Dresses worn by Michelle with sleeves for competitive programs-

long sleeves-
the first two costumes for Song of India
Miss Saigon-1993
EOE and others- 1994
blue stripped dress switched back and forth from Greensleeves to Yellow River Concerto
Black dress worn for DOD
Fate of Carmen
A Day in the Life (one sleeve)
Rush
Dress worn for Shez at 2001 Skate Canada
Royal purple Bolero

Short Sleeves-
light blue dress worn for Song of India in 1994
Two hot pink costumes from 1994-95 season
Salome

3/4 length
Romanza
the first dress worn for DOD

I think Michelle looks great in with or without sleeves. However she looks breathtaking in sleeves. My absolute faves are those with 3/4 length. Plus she has had a good percentage of winning in sleeve length.:lol

[Lisa Seye]

ahhh the Romanza dress. I loved it!

[missmarysgarden]

Add the (controversial) one sleeve orange dress that she wore in Vancouver for EOE. I guess I always see this dress as "controversial" because the opinion of it is so mixed. I think I'm pretty picky and conservative about skating dresses, and I absolutely LOVED this dress. I think that its hard to translate how it looked live - like orange sherbet - the fabric (which I'm sure was silk) was to die for. And the impact when she skated out on the ice was BOOM - it was such a great spark of color on the ice, so original, and so fit the theme - with the sort of sparkly applique's across it on the diagonal, it looked like clouds in a beautiful, fiery sunset. And it was a beautiful color on Michelle. I've seen the tapes, and the broadcast didn't catch the true color at all. This is also a great compromise - one sleeve for the sleeve fans; one bare arm for those who love Michelle's toned arms!

[Krista]

Im with you on the orange dress, mmg. I loved that dress. So unique and it had great line for the moves that she was doing. It really flowed together nicely with the program.

[epoibim]

Cole- ROFLMAO!!!:rollin

I was thinking the same thing...;)

[berthesghost]

Ya know, if you described that costume to me over the phone I'd be like :x it's got so much of everything I hate, yet....I love it! Somehow it all comes together, goes so well with the EOE music and looked great on her. One of my favorites. We need an emoticon.

[GinnySmith]

I loved both dresses Michelle wore in Vancouver. And yes, the East of Eden SP dress too! I never thought I'd like a dress such as that on anyone. But on Michelle, it looked fabulous.

Didn't Michelle's luggage get mis-directed in Vancouver and didn't she have to go with back-up costumes? Or am I thinking of something else?

[Sparks]

Yes, GinnySmith. I always wondered how she got those costumes if her luggage was lost. That whole Worlds showed how MK can overcome adversity (no luggage, broken boot, everyone saying Irina was going to win).
Didn't the SOBTS dress from 2002 GPF (with the head stuff) have sleeves too?

[GinnySmith]

Sparks--

Well, it could be that since she is a seasoned traveler and competitor, she may include spare costumes in her carry-on. Either that, or perhaps she used good ole express mail. But I don't have any idea when she arrived in Vancouver and whether or not there would have been enough time between her arrival and the QR for her to have something shipped in an expedited fashion.

I hope she updates her biography some day and discusses the behind the scenes drama for that competition. We need details!!! :lol

[GonnaSkate]

Didn't there used to be a rule that all ladies' costumes had to have sleeves? Does anyone know what year that rule was changed?

I only ask because I thought I read somewhere that Michelle Kwan was one of the first to take advantage of the new sleeveless rule.

The times I've seen Michelle practice she has been wearing tank tops. I think that I'd want my competitive outfits to be as much like my practice outfits as possible so that everything felt familiar.

In general, I prefer sleeves. But I love Michelle sleeveless, or 3/4 sleeve, or long sleeve. She makes everything look amazing.

[chipso1]

What are sleaves?

Maybe the plural form of a "sleaf"?
:p

[Applegate13]

Didn't her Mulan dress also have long sleeves?
I don't think I have too much of an opinion on what she does for sleeves except I really like when she has sleeves that aren't exactly the same like in A Day In The Life and her DOD dress at worlds. I just absolutely love that look. I have to say though, I wasn't crazy about her Bolero dress with sleeves or the sleeves on her Carmen dress.

[graciesfriend]

I want to know why we're not discusssing the hims on Michelle's dresses. Or the nicklines.

How about a fair and open discussion of them?

[Eeyora]

Oh yes how could I forget the East of Eden dress from 2001 Worlds. I can't believe I forgot about Mulan but I did say "Competitive" programs which was why I didn't add the gold dress from "This time Around". I loved the Mulan dress. Another dress I forgot to add was from her 1995 Worlds Exhibition to Greensleeves It was blue. It had 3/4 with a white peacock print.

[tongueincheek]

Maybe the plural form of a "sleaf"? I want to know why we're not discusssing the hims on Michelle's dresses. Or the nicklines. :lol :rollin :lol

[GoldenMichelle]

I think MK looks better without sleeves. The ony dress of hers I liked that had sleeves was her Romanza, and those weren't full sleeves.

[FlashOBlue]

Michelle skated to EOE (sp) once in (at Worlds?) in a gorgeous, fluffy, long sleeved orange dress. Someone here has it in their signature. That pic (sfl) was used for the back of the platinum medal.

I just feel like mooing over this thread. Whatever happened to that "Traumatized by Cows" person?

[Katie]

I think that the orange SP dress with the sleeves worked, and I loved the deep purple dress she wore for qualifying at Worlds and Marshalls this year. I hope she wears whatever is comfortable, though, and I'm sure ti will look stunning!
:CK :FL

[KwanBoy23]

Off topic:

I see making funny and snide remarks about a persons spelling is ok though, as long as you don't actually BASH the poster!:rolleyes

[chipso1]

I see making funny and snide remarks about a persons spelling is ok though, as long as you don't actually BASH the poster!

Care to point out where you see that going on with the "sleaves" remark? :rolleyes