Why does Robin Cousins Have Beef over the Kween?

[mixedmadness]

I was reading in another post that someone did not like the way that Robin Cousins talked about MK and I think I knew before that he was anti ML. Anyhow, just wondering if anyone knew what he said about her and why.

I know that Rosalyn Sumners has said some not so nice things about her but it is obviously jealousy and I know that Scott Hamilton seems to be annoyed that she did not turn pro and join his tour.

I think that the people that adore MK far outweigh the haters. In recent memory I know that at least Lu Lu, Kristi, Dorothy, Nancy and Sandra love MK and I am sure the list goes on.

Anyhow, I think I went off on a tangent. So back to my original question...Why does Cousins have beef over Kwan?

[lemonade16]

I'm sorry I can't answer your question, but, as far as I'm concerned, if Cousins has a "beef" with Michelle, he can take that beef, put it into a pot and stew it! He can stew right along with it.

People who can't make money off of Michelle or haven't had Michelle's success have problems with her? Please. Maybe if they focused on their own happiness and their own goals, they'd be more successful in their own lives.

lemonade16

[kwanluv]

I really don't think any of the people you mentioned have a problem with Michelle, including Robin. Roz and Scott have many, many times expressed their admiration and deep respect for her.

As far as Robin Cousins is concerned though, apparently he made some comments durning Nagano that weren't well-received by all of us Kwan lovers. I honestly can't remember exactly "what" he said though.

I find it best to block such things from my mind. ;)

[lavender]

He might have been the one that liked Lipinski more than Michelle (not totally sure). I think he picked her to win because of her excitement and speed. I don't know how he feels about either these days.

[Eeyora]

Actually Scott usually seems to praise Michelloe. I think he was rooting for her in Nagano over Lipinski. He picked her to win believing she could make at least one mistake and still beat Tara. Remember in Salt Lake when she doulbed the second jump inp in the triple toe combo, he believed she was making a smart decision. I do remember however his much talked about comments in Mark Lund's book believing Michelle's decision to stay eligible was not good for pro-skating which I don't think at all were meant to bash Michelle. I'm sure he that pro skating would be doing better if it had Michelle. In addition I'm sure after 98 he would have rather had Michelle with SOI than Tara.

As for Roz who knows? After Nagano she seemed to really love Michelle. She really seemed to like her skating at the GWG that year. However there were those questionable comments during the Canadian Open of 02 when she believe Sasha would over take Michelle that season. The bizzarre thing was that Michelle wasn't even skating in that competion. However Roz also made questionable remarks towards Sarah and Tara in a TV Guide article. Maybe Roz is just jealous.

[attyfan]

I would be very surprised if Roz wasn't jealous -- not of Michelle, specifically, but of the extra opportunities that skaters have today that she was (wrongfully, IMO) denied. After all, Michelle, Sasha and Sarah can all stay Oly eligible while they get endorsements and touring money. Roz skated in a day where the federations, sponsors, and shows all could make money -- but not the Oly eligible skaters who were actually doing the work. It is not nice, perhaps, but it is extremely common -- and not just in skating.

[Michibanana]

Some comments of Robin's from Nagano were published - after seeing both MK and TL practice (before the ladies' competition began), he picked Tara to win and also said something (in response to a question) about prefering her skating style. I can see why some Michelle fans would dislike those comments, although they weren't anti-Michelle in any way, and honestly, I don't see any reason to be offended at his comments. I've long ago learned that not everybody is going to love Michelle's skating style; everyone looks for something different in a skater.

[lavender]

Yeah that's what I remember Michi. I didn't really care about what Robin said. He's never been a focus of mine.

I would be very surprised if Roz wasn't jealous -- not of Michelle, specifically, but of the extra opportunities that skaters have today that she was (wrongfully, IMO) denied.

Yeah there's a lot of people that I'm sure might be sour.

[kwanluv]

Yep, that was it Michi Banana.

[aaronts]

Robin was right. & what's more is that he was right for the exact reason he mentioned before the outcome. Tara had fire there & Michelle had less(note: i didn't say none). in fact, i'm surprised Tara didn't get more 1st place ordinals for the SP. that Rach was my least favorite of all. Michelle, IMO, was going thru the motions - whereas at SA, SC, Nationals, Worlds, GWG & even the Masters - she was on fire. i'd still put her in 1st but i'm forever biased ;-)

i'm sure everyone including Frank were just hoping for Michelle to skate cleanly. we all expected her to win if she did. she didn't & there's really no need to get upset w Robin.

Roz OTOH, she should shut her mouth sometimes. whether she's bitter or not, it sure sounds like it~

[kwanluv]

rbpier
You are correct...I still get choked up watching her skate that FOG and listening to Scott's commentary at the end. :(

[rbpier]

I don't know about Robins, but if I remeber correctly, wasn't that Scott who was commentating when MK was skating FOG at SLC and you could hear his voice crack like he was crying and he said "So many people wanted her to win?"

I think that was Scott, if so that would seems to show that he in fact does have a lot of respect and admiration for her and apparently cares for her.

Could anyone confirm if I am remembering this correctly?

[nymkfan51]

in fact, i'm surprised Tara didn't get more 1st place ordinals for the SP.

What did she get, I forgot ... one from the French judge, I think.
That would be one too many as far as I'm concerned. It wasn't even close.

[aaronts]

like i said, i would have still had MK 1st. i don't know that it's fair to even judge their skating together. but Tara was on fire.

to me, Michelle was in a class w Lu Chen, Maria Butryskaya, etc.. Tara was w Irina Slutskaya, Elena Sokolova(sp?), Surya B, etc.. nonetheless, they had to be judged together. while i thought Michelle & Tara's SPs were comparable for different reasons, i thought 4 minutes of Tara at the same speed was too much. i'm surprised they gave her the title w the LP.

but, i'm just not surprised by what Robin said. it made sense then & makes even more now~

[berthesghost]

It's possible that Robin just doesn't like MK's skating, his perogative, but commentators are suppose to remain neutral IMO and hearing him tear down Kwan in comp after comp is very irritating. I suppose it's a thin line and fans certianly don't like hearing negative things about thier favs, but comments infering that she is too "packaged" are bs IMHO, and his insistance that Irina is a great but misunderstood artist is just laughable IMHO.

I also refuse to give him props because he predicted Nagano right. Even if Kwan had skated like a house on fire and Lipinski like she was stuck in molases, he still would have gotten in the digs and proped Tara up as more "honest".

What makes his comments even more suspicious is how closely he's involved. He trained Bobeck and others at the same rink as Kwan and Carrol and he is of course a key focus in the long standing Fassi/Fratianne/Frank feud. His constant digs that she's "too controled" and "very deliberate" are as much a criticism of a rival coach and advesary as they are of the personal skater. Fratianne and Frank blatently called his Oly win cheating to anyone who would listen. Well, paybacks are a ***** I guess.

As for Roz, I seriously doubt she's jealous of anyone. She's beautiful, rich and famous and had a long and productive pro career, not only being one of the founding skater of SOI but a co-investor to boot. She's defiantley in with the A list of the skatign world. She's just got a big mouth and tells it like she sees it. The only possible exception I could see to this is regarding Tara. There was definatley bad blood between Tara and SOI, that's no secret. It was basically "Don't let the door hit your arse on the way out" and I for one can't wait for Tara's promissed "tell all" bio, which will probably never come, but it would be great for Scott and Roz to spill the real beans as rebuttal.

[mzheng]

I for one can't wait for Tara's promissed "tell all" bio, which will probably never come, but it would be great for Scott and Roz to spill the real beans as rebuttal.
LOL, can't wait for the dirty laundery, mh?

[pluto3658]

Someone should remind Robin of his suspicious/controversial Olympic win (as a result of Fassi). As far as I'm concerned, his brief skating career was the highlight. He is biased in the booth and someone should also remind him of what his duties are as a broadcaster, plain and simple.....

[Lisa Seye]

someone clue me in on the Robins Cousins Olympic rumors???

[mzheng]

scroll down to BGOI and olymics posts in this thread:

p216.ezboard.com/fmichellekwanforumskatingchat.showMessageRange?top icID=14271.topic&start=41&stop=60 (http://p216.ezboard.com/fmichellekwanforumskatingchat.showMessageRange?top icID=14271.topic&start=41&stop=60)

In shor the 'rumor' had it that Fassi arranged for Robins Cousins won men's in exchange for Anettar(?) won lady's over Linda in that Olympics.

[figureskating37]

I remember reading an article during the SLC Olympics on Robin Cousins who I believe was the spokeperson for BBC. He commented that Irina S. should have been placed first in the SP instead of Michelle (5/4 in favor of Michelle). I still don't know if he was expressing his professional opinion or he was just vexed about Irina's placement. Remember, if Irina have been placed first in the SP, she would have won the OGM. This is just my opinion about Robin Cousins. What do you think?

P.S. Sorry, I'm having problem with my spell check. It's not working.

[mzheng]

Remember, if Irina have been placed first in the SP, she would have won the OGM. This is just my opinion. What do you think?
What's done is done. IF Irina have been placed first in the SP, MK might not skate defensively in LP. 2000 worlds LP, 2001 worlds LP, 2004 Nationals LP, ... too many times in majore competetions MK had to come behind on fire and going away with a Gold medal.

[pluto3658]

I agree mzheng. There are too many "what ifs" here. We don't know for a fact that if Irina was placed first in the sp that she would have won the oly gold. Maybe Michelle would have skated the LP the way she skated her long in 2000 and 2001 Worlds. Maybe she would have knocked everyone for a 'loop'.

If there is one thing I'm certain about, it's that MK does come out kicking when her back is against the wall. So, in essence, not so sure Irina would have won.....

[aaronts]

well, i would have had Irina 1st on that occasion too. sorry, y'all know how much i love MK, but i was shocked that Michelle was placed 1st in the SP at SLC. 2nd or 3rd is what i expected.

but past that, how is what Robin said any different from what Peggy says every Nationals these days? she's always expecting Sasha to outdo Michelle on account of her superior technique. we all know who's sound technique has carried them to 9 titles there. Robin simply said he thinks MK "was" too packaged. my interpretation was WAS, as is at that very time period. for me, as i mentioned in an earlier post, Team Kwan had the title to lose & Michelle skated like it IMO. Tara had something to prove & skated like it IMO. while i'm not the be all end all of this discussion, i'm an uber Kwan fan & still am not terribly surprised by the outcome. i'm not giving Cousins props but i won't tear him down when i agree.

from what i remember, Robin was at Olys practices & that's where he came up w the comment. not Nationals, not SC. the Olys. maybe he would have had a different viewpoint if he were at the Nationals' practices(?).

i do think though that the "packaging" comment is laughable. skaters w/o packaging tend not to be skaters that we remember because they're not as successful. Tara had her "package" as well & to me, it was as generic as a tin can w a white & black label. Michelle seemed to become one w Rach & Lyra that season & it's that packaging that has inspired a whole new generation of skaters. it also forced improvements from well known skaters~

[Lisa Seye]

thanks Mzheng. This makes things become even more clear and depressing to me haha.

[dynoguy88]

I never understood why the "Roz hates Michelle" comments are mentioned here so often. Roz gave Michelle probably the most flattering compliment I have ever heard from a former skater. At the 1998 Good Will Games, while she was skating to Lyra, she said that Michelle's skating style and beauty was something she had not seen since Janet Lynn. That's pretty powerful to me. Roz has said many wonderful things about Michelle over the years so I just can't believe that she dislikes her or is jealous.

[Heather]

I'm not one to say that someone in the media loves/hates someone just because of one opinion they make, but I wanted to respond to dynoguy88. I agree that Roz said some great things about Michelle at the '98 GWG. Peter C did too. But I think *since* then, Roz hasn't been as complimentary. It's probably a stretch for me to say that that was the last time she said anything nice about Michelle, lol, but it's the last positive thing I really remember. That was 7 years ago now.

[millenniummagicz]

y'all know how much i love MK, but i was shocked that Michelle was placed 1st in the SP at SLC. 2nd or 3rd is what i expected.<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>

had there been another judge from another country, then it couldve been Irina who won the SP. I think the overall package of Rachmaninoff more than enough made up for the slip off on the triple flip.

Back to the old topic, well said BG (my fav poster here!) But I think another reason why Scott favored MK over IS was probably because he wanted her to win this, and end her eligible career and sign up with SOI. Im not doubting his love for MK, but I think that could also be an important reason why he picked MK (although not explicitly, but he clearly though the Presentation mark should go to MK and each did 5 triples and that being the tie breaker, MK shouldve won).

I dont think u would find a lot of neutrality among commentators nowadays. SImon and Chris from BBC are great, pointing out as much vice as streng<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END-->

[MKGrace]

I've never heard Robin Cousins comment about anything so I can't speak to that, but I've always thought of him as an artistic skater as opposed to a technical specialist, so I can't imagine he wouldn't appreciate Michelle's skating. I don't know what he said about SLC but I do think Michelle should've been second after the short program. I think that would've been a better place for her because she probably would've attacked more coming from behind.

I'm sure Scott would've loved to have Michelle join SOI over Tara or Sarah, but I don't think that motivated his comments. I think he really likes Michelle and loves/appreciates her skating for its beauty.

[berthesghost]

Not to stray too far off topic but....I too was a little surprised to see Mk ahead of Irina in the SLC SP, but if you look at the marks, it makes more sense.

It was a 5/4 split, pretty close.

However, MK had 4 2nds. Irina OTOH had 3 judges put her down in 3rd. 3rd! A 4 time Euro champ behind a second string skater with no international medals. Heck, she'd never even been to senior worlds yet.

MK had all 5.9s accross the board from every judge. The only one who came even close was Irina who tied her with 5.9s from 2 of the judges. Others gave her as low as 5.6 though. What does this say? On the 2nd mark Mk won this sp hands down, slam dunk.

What about the tech mark? Those who gave the nod to Irina went with 5.8, MK 5.7, just slightly lower. No big gap. Those who went with MK vary, giving her either paultry 5.5 or vaulted 5.9 (from Slovakia no less.... bet she was drummed out of the eastern block after that. :lol ) The German judge even gave Irina and Sasha the same tech mark. :eek

So what did the 9 judges say? Mk was without question better than Irina in presentation. In tech, they were close with maybe Irina being a little better.

[berthesghost]

Heather, I just downloaded GWG EOE SP and Roz was pretty gushy. So, I guess it's only been 3 years not 7. :lol

[Skate Sandee]

I'm not one to say that someone in the media loves/hates someone just because of one opinion they make, but I wanted to respond to dynoguy88. I agree that Roz said some great things about Michelle at the '98 GWG. Peter C did too. But I think *since* then, Roz hasn't been as complimentary. It's probably a stretch for me to say that that was the last time she said anything nice about Michelle, lol, but it's the last positive thing I really remember. That was 7 years ago now. >>

The last commentary I ever heard from Roz was negative, and Michelle wasn't even at the event she was commentating. I forget which one it was, but it was post SLC where Roz praised Sasha as the one to watch given how Kwan was "phoning in her performances". IIRC this was just before the 2003 Worlds where Michelle picked up her 5th World title.

[nymkfan51]

Sandee, that was exactly right about what Roz said. Totally out of place IMO.

And great analysis of the SP's in SLC, BG. It's clear the judges preferred Michelle's presentation, and the tech was really too close to call IMO.

[addielaverne53]

Well, I've never cared for Robin Cousins whether he was skating or talking. And I've never cared for Roz either since she whined about not winning the Olys. I always used her as a bathroom break whenever I watched SOI on television.:rollin Sorry, that's a little snarky, but I would rather listen to snake slithering in the grass than Roz or Robin.

I remember Roz's comment about MK "phoning in her performances" during a competition she didn't even compete in. That just made MK's 5th World Championship much sweeter, IMO.:rollin

AFA Peggy's comments go: Her "Sasha folds like a card table" made me :eek , so it isn't like she just rakes Kwan over the proverbial coals.

I think Scott was hoping against hope that Kwan would go pro. I think he also knows that she made the right decision for her. I do believe he had a point that Kwan going pro would do more for pro skating than Tara going pro did. And I suspect that pro skating will get a huge lift when Kwan decides her amateur skating days are done. But that's only if she wants to continue with a pro career. Needless to say, I think her skating, on her worst days, is far better than some I've seen on their best days. :SP

[mzheng]

The Scott most put me off comments were in SLC pairs and mens competetion. Just review SLC mens competetion yesterday, the comments he made about Yagudin's LP just lauphable; the comments he made about pairs LP just outrage.

But what he said about MK, I'd take it a compliment. I remember read somewhere he also said that here is big difference between eligible and pro skating; among current crop of eligible skaters, only MK does not need seriouse work over if she turn pro. All the other eligibles will need a majore haul change in presentation department when they turn pro.

[MKGrace]

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>The Scott most put me off comments were in SLC pairs and mens competetion. Just review SLC mens competetion yesterday, the comments he made about Yagudin's LP just lauphable; the comments he made about pairs LP just outrage.<hr></blockquote> ITA mzheng. Yagudin's program (the way he skated) was no masterpiece by any stretch of the imagination, and Scott's biased ranting after the pairs plus Sale and Pelltier's crybaby "poor us" performances really stoked the fire that ended up with 2 gold medals being awarded. <img border=0 src="http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/eyes.gif" />

Roz has always struck me as unpredictable and moody - she's up and down on the same skater depending on what day it is. I think a lot of what she says about skating is pretty insightful and overall I like her as a commentator, but she gets snarky about the skaters themselves.

Frankly I don't think Michelle will do professional skating, so Scott can get over it. With the exception of the two tours pro skating is dead. Michelle will probably do at least one more COI, but I don't think she'll do SOI ever. I expect (and hope) she'll get into commentary. If not that then coaching.

[pluto3658]

I hope she sticks to coaching, I think that many young skaters would benefit from MK's experiences.

[TAF2984]

Great comments BGOI regarding the 1980 Olympics with Cousins. I definitely think Frank's comments may have some underlying reason as to his remarks about MK.

[Yankees Suck 01]

There is a lot of jealousey when someone is so much more successful then others in their sport. It seems to be more rampant in female sports,

A lot of these old skaters are probably just jealous that they haven't made as much as Michelle .

People are petty. Gymnastics is just as bad. You wouldn't believe the stuff I have overheard gymnasts say about the ones who have come before them. Parents are even worse ( a certain well known gymnasts mother was the worst. She makes Pat Lipinski look like a saint)

[taf]

Oh come on YS, nothing could make PL look like a saint. LOL

Seriously, I don't usually care what commentators have to say about Michelle. Their opinions are usually no more valid than yours or mine. And beside, I've read worse right here at MKF than anything a commentator has said about her.

[Yankees Suck 01]

Oh Taf, You don't know how wrong you are.lol Last time I checked Pat Lipinski didn't make up lies in chat rooms to make her daughter look better then other gymnasts and I've never heard of her insulting other skaters (gymnasts) Oh wait, that one actually did happen to both:)

[Skate Sandee]

Taf said, "Seriously, I don't usually care what commentators have to say about Michelle. Their opinions are usually no more valid than yours or mine. And beside, I've read worse right here at MKF than anything a commentator has said about her".>>

Except here at MKF or other sites, those making such comments do not have the awesome power of the television medium driving their comments, nor are they paid for their opinions. Commentators do.

I :rolleyes at most commentator remarks (whether they are overdosing in the praise or being snarky), but I do hold them to a much higher standard than I would someone on a website making questionable opinions.

[shirleyprice1]

Awww, lemonade ! I loved your answer for that one !:rollin :lol

[i12gosk8]

"I know that Rosalyn Sumners has said some not so nice things about her but it is obviously jealousy "

Roz mad one comment about her "mail it in performances" and this makes her not so nice and jelous of michelle? I don't think so, I think the pro skaters try and stay neutral, but we all know everyone has favorites.

As far as Robin Cousin, just because in Chritine Brennans book, it discusses when he was asked who he liked better, and everyone assumed he would say Michelle and he pointed to tara and said ---"that one" IF this is even accurate, how does this mean he doesn't like michelle?

8)

[pluto3658]

Listen to some of his commentary....then you'll hear the remarks.....

[lavender]

Who cares what Robin thinks.