Project Thread #4 - Medal Designs

[mkisthebest]

Hi, thanks to those of you voting on my poll on the "2 sides vs 1 side":

pub1.ezboard.com/fmichellekwanforumletscongratulatemichelle.showMes sage?topicID=133.topic (http://pub1.ezboard.com/fmichellekwanforumletscongratulatemichelle.showMes sage?topicID=133.topic)

we now have an idea that most of us want to see sculpted images on both front and back of the medal.

I am coordinating with MICHELLEKWANFAN to finalize the voting process, and here is my next question:

<!--EZCODE BOLD START--> Should we pool all the front and back sides of the submitted designs, all 33 designs together, when we vote on different categories such as "Major Graphics" and "Secondary Graphics"? <!--EZCODE BOLD END-->

My thinking behind this is there are so many beautiful front designs and we can utilize both sides of the medal to express ourselves, either in images or words, this way, we can have the possibility to incorporate the top two most appealing graphics into the front and back of medal.

For example, we can have a spiral/split image for the front, and another posture/image for the back.

What do you guys think?

Here is the link for the medal design:

heatherw.com/medal/ (http://heatherw.com/medal/)

[Sharon]

I agree. I don't think we should limit our choices to *only* front side designs for the front and back side designs for the back. This gives us more choice. I also read (somewhere LOL) that maybe we could combine portions of a design with another to come up with a final design. I like this idea a lot too, since that would truly symbolize the collaborative effort this project is :D !

[GinnySmith]

Good Idea!

[skatingfan5]

that the designs submitted for the medal "are OK as starting points." [NOTE: I posted this to the medal planning thread #3 that is tacked at the top of the page, but since folks are also posting their thoughts about the medal design, I thought I'd better include this here as well.]

Marty Colwell further states "If at all possible, a photo of Michelle will help the medallion look good." I think that he is assuming that we will choose to have a medal that features Michelle's image, rather than a more stylized rendition of one of her signature poses. I'm not sure that this is what the final vote will turn out favoring, but I assured him that it would be no problem providing a photo of Michelle -- there are literally hundreds of them around to use as models.

I also just received my sample coin from NWTM (Marty had been out of town for a week right after I requested one about a month ago and unfortunately my request was buried in the stuff that came in during his absence). But I now have a sample to send to Artisan Plating for the "platinum test". Also, from the sample they sent me, I can assure you that Terri is right that we don't have to worry too much about our design having too much detail to be produced well -- the coin they sent me was very detailed. In fact, I think there was too much small detail in the image and a simpler one would have looked less "busy". Of course, this is my own preference, and as I have stated several times before, I like things simple and elegant -- just like my favorite MK costumes (Red Violin, Lyra, SOTBS (Worlds), etc.)

Some of the suggested details in the submitted designs are NOT possible for NWTM -- this would be those who indicated having diamonds or other gemstones imbedded in the medal. I have not seen any $$ estimates provided for these elements, either.

I also agree that one of the most important things for us to decide on is the "motto" or the "inscription" on the medal, because that will hopefully convey to Michelle just what she means to us -- as a skater and as a person. I was one of those who initially did NOT think that having an image of Michelle on the medal was the best idea -- and yet the designs I submitted both featured Michelle -- albeit one in a more abstract or stylized rendering. I still like the idea of incorporating the phoenix symbolism in some way -- either the Chinese characters for this or in a drawing. I thought that mkisthebest's use of stylized letters MKF to depict a phoenix was very clever and Shallah's phoenix was quite beautiful.

As has been said, there are so many great ideas submitted that I think we will be able to come up with a very special medal for Michelle. Some of the designs had very sophisticated renderings while others were more preliminary sketches. I think we should keep in mind that all of these will just be the starting point for the NWTM. We will send them our concept, with some drawings to help illustrate it, and then their designers will send us back their first drawing of the medal. This first design can then be altered more than once, depending on our feedback to NWTM.

Since about 3/4 of those who voted in the one side vs. two-sided medal poll chose having a fully-sculpted image on both sides, I would take this to mean that we can do so -- if that is what we finally decide will be the best design. I still think that the best option may be something simpler -- i.e., the sculpted design on the front with a simpler design or just an inscription on the back. For that reason, I don't think we should automatically just use the "top two vote getters" as the front and back of the medal -- we want them to work well together and not clash. (Two of my very favorite foods are kung pao chicken and spinach lasagne -- but I really wouldn't want to have them at the same meal. )

I know that part of what has been holding up the voting process is the complexity that seems to be involved with so many possible choices. It was suggested that design elements could be combined from several designs -- and I think this could work -- in fact, several of the medal designs submitted incorporated several different design elements. Again, we just need to make sure that they work well together. When I looked over all the medal designs again today, I realized that there were several motifs that were repeated in a number of the designs:
MK or stylized skater in a spiral (9 designs)
MK in split falling leaf (3 designs)
MK in other pose (charlotte, landing, salute) (4 designs)
Phoenix (either bird or characters) (4 designs)
Ice skates (3 designs)
6.0 (either one large or many smaller) (3 designs)

I don't know if it would be possible to vote on design elements by category, but it would certainly simplify the voting. As I said earlier, in speaking with Marty Colwell most recently (twice this week) it seems that any one of the designs submitted would only be the starting point for the final medal, so I think we could submit elements from more than one MKF'er even if they were quite different in rendering style or level of detail. The designers at NWTM are used to working with a variety of source material.

Well, that was a lot longer than I intended, but I hope that this has answered most, if not all, questions about what the NWTM can do.

One last thing I thought of: Has anyone compiled a listing of all the "mottoes" suggested for the medal? Not just those on the medal designs submitted, but from the earlier threads about this project? I think we should be at least thinking about what we want the medal to say, even if we aren't voting on it now. However, what we want to say on the medal could affect the type of design we choose. Oh well, I'd better end this for now before it becomes an entire page of this thread.

[peglewis]

... it really has. The possibilities are just limitless, and thanks to generous donations, just about anything is possible.

Now, just to share one person's thinking who voted for sculting both sides...

What I had in mind was a signature pose of MK, stylized or likeness on the front, sculpted of course, and something simple like the referenced MKF phoenix on the back with something short and sweet like "Thank you" or "Your fans @ [phoenix] thank you", with that also in relief or sculpted.

I'm inclined to agree that two very busy sides might be much (and take away from the donation amount). And I was one who just _had_ to have multi-toned plating of my high school ring all those years ago. I thought it was pretty spiffy then, but I sure wish I'd just gone with plain white gold instead. :D But what's done is done. It reminds me of my youth. ;)

Anyway, I just wanted to mention that I was thinking the motto or whatever it's called could be sculpted instead of inscribed on the back side, so that's why I voted that way. I wasn't thinking that the two most popular proposed front images would be used, but if that's the way people want to go... go for it. That does seem more coin-like and less testimonial-like, though. Kind of? Maybe? :lol

Here's a question I have, that I've not been able to pick up from the parts I've read: There's a committee organizing this. Have we as a forum empowered them to make the ultimate decisions on the design, based upon voted-for recommendations by the whole of us? I'm thinking representatives might be able to come to a decision with less angst than a huge body. :D (What, us? Have angst??? :lol ) Maybe they'd feel better with an official mandate? Or do you already have one and I missed it? (I wouldn't be surprised if I had missed it!!)

Anyway, whatever you guys decide is fine with me. My contribution is highly insignificant in the scheme of things. I just wanted to share a few thoughts, as a question, and most importantly, take this opportunity -now- to give you guys a virtual pat on the back for all the hard work done so far, and best wishes for getting through the many headaches sure to come.

Peg :D

[mkisthebest]

Thanks again Skatingfan5, your continuous report from NWTM is just so valuable to this project, I know we can count on you!

ITA that we should try to keep the designs less-cluster and elegant, so maybe we can do sculpted image on just part of the designs to avoid overdoing it just like Peg suggested.

For example, we can do sculpted image of MK doing spiral for the front and etched image of a phoenix in circular fashion for the back.

[barbnf]

I prefer some of the other suggestions myself ... the phoenix seems to focus too much on the ashes stuff ... if you know what I mean ...

There were a lot of great ideas when I first checked ... haven't checked back since ... no time, but even the very early ones were super!!!

I also wish to cast my vote for the "6.0's" someone had ... I thought the circle of "6.0's" was truly telling it like we all feel ...

Just my 2 cents ...

[Aslan's Girl]

I agree with barbf, I don't particularly like the phoenix idea either, only because I don't think MK has had any ashes to rise from. One mistake in a LP in the "O" doesn't mean there was a fire, lol! It would seem to me that the phoenix would make MK think that we think that the "O" was a crash and burn scenario, which I certainly do not think as I'm one who says she should've won that night anyway ;)
But, whatever the majority decides, I just can't wait to see the finished product and give it to MK.
Also just wanted to thank skatingfan5 for the informative post, and to those who are setting up the polls.

[kyla]

I agree wiht those that don't like the idea of the Phoenix. The concept of "rising from the ashes" isn't eactly the message I want to send to Michelle. This medal should be about her triumphs and how we feel about her as a group. I also think that to have a handpicked group make the decisions about the medal design is not the most democratic way to accomplish this. Whether we have everyone on the forum have a voice in the medal design, or only those that contributed, is a legitimate topic for discussion. Personally, I have no problem with including others that couldn't afford to donate money. They have "donated" in other ways (time, emotion/support, posts, etc.), and are integral members of the forum. It would also allow the most input regarding the design, so that a true majority will have voted for the best possible design. I realize that not everyone will agree with me on these issues, but whatever is decided, I will support.

[peglewis]

... I was associating the design with renewal of life and transformations (kind of harkening back to MK's 1995-1996 season transformation), but the other reason I liked it was because it was a graphic way to incorporate the name of the MKForum into the design.

The 6.0 idea is cool, but I'm concerned about offending people who feel "666" has a bad meaning. Even if it's 6.0 6.0 6.0 (ad infinitum), I still worry about offending people.

:D Let's face it, someone will always find offense with just about anything, so we're never going to make everyone happy. That's why I was wondering if we were going to empower a committee or try to go with simple majority or two-thirds majority vote, or whatever. I forsee much good-natured bickering and misunderstandings. ;)

Peg

[kyla]

Peg, I understand your concerns about the design and possible bickering. I think the idea of a 2/3rds majority is a good one. I am not crazy about the Phoenix for the reason I stated, but if the majority wanted the design, they wouldn't hear anymore from me about it. We could get the concept of the 6.0's without doing-6666. Something like MOST 6.0'S OF ALL TIME. I really liked the design on the back of the medal that listed all of her accomplishments. It's a medal that really says something and she could look at it and see all of her achievements at a glance. I would really like to include the rest of the people from the forum who would like to vote, if at all possible. It would then truly be from all of us. Is there any way to limit it to one person-one vote? I wouldn't want someone (i.e. a troll) to get on and vote 20 times. I am not a computer expert, but I know some of you are pretty talented in that area and could figure out a way to do this.

[Terri]

I like the idea of everyone getting a vote. Maybe the best way to do that I think, is that everyone post their vote.

[peglewis]

Kyla, your concerns about one person voting multiple times with different email addresses or user names is the one drawback for letting "everyone" vote. It would be easy to stuff the ballot.

But there is opposition to allowing just the contributors do the voting, although that way there would be a finite list of email/user name addresses to keep track of.

I believe EZBoard's poll tracks user name and only lets you vote once, but if someone deleted the cookie saying they'd voted, they could probably get around that. I've seen some folks do off-site polls SkateFans, but I'm not sure if they tracked IP addresses or trusted everyone's word of honor on those early polls. (Now I believe they're all anonymous). I believe most sites, such as yahoogroups, tracks user name.

We could trust everyone to vote only once, but it would take only one bad apple to skew the poll. Could we tell if it happened? Maybe, if someone voted a hundred times in one day for one design, but if that person voted a couple extra times per had it might not be so obvious.

Has anyone ever encourged poll-stuffing for Michelle in any of the polls advertised here? Is there a culture where ballot-stuffing is acceptible here? I hope not. Honor is something to be taken seriously.

On a more pleasant note... :D

I definitely agree there could be a work-around to the six issue without repeating the number in a manner some might find offensive. But I find myself pondering:

A list of MK's accomplishments (or record of sixes) could be obsolete if she stays eligible and adds to her list (and if Alexei Yagudin keeps skating great enough to earn his sixes and add to his total). On the other hand, a simple "thank you" never gets outdated, and it was something she said she enjoyed receiving from her fans in one TV interview this season.

Peg

[maryada]

Just sharing information I had gotten way back in the beginning of this project.--------------------- Somewhere in the beginning of this thread I read about the possibility of a picture of Michelle being used for the medal, We couldn't do that without Michelle's permission.-------- A person's actual image can't be used on a medallion (medal) or coin without their express permission---------- I can't remember exactly how it was worded to me but it was the owner of NWTM that I had been speaking to at the time, and I told him we were thinking in terms of basically abstract imaging etc. ie skating poses (her spiral etc.) which he said would not be a problem. Just thought I'd mention that.-------------( As a side note I'd like to add my 'druthers' to those who really aren't crazy about the Phoenix idea, it doesn't seem to fit Michelle IMHO)------ MaryAda

[Raquellina]

As I have often found to be the case, I get caught up in every day life, and don't get the chance to check up on this project. And then, when I do....well, I am simply blown away!

Thank you, all, for your diligent work and support. Each and every donation is making a difference! Whether it be a donation of funds, time, talent, or expertise. I am so very proud and overwhelmed at this complete undertaking.

I think the representation of the phoenix was best explained when this project was still in its infancy. The bit about rising from the ashes was actually completely downplayed. We, as a group, had brainstormed thinking about the charm Michelle wears with the symbol of a dragon - and the symbol of the phoenix was to complement that.

After the viewing the medal design submissions, I am in awe. Many of you have wonderful imagination and talent! I would suggest that however the voting is determined, that the front side of the medal be decided upon first. Once that is known, then another vote for the back side could be done.

Keep up the wonderful enthusiam! Many kudos to ALL who have put so much time and effort into this. I wish I could name you all, but if I tried, I would surely leave someone out. Please know that your efforts are appreciated!

[barbnf]

a mail-in ballot (many of us mailed in our checks without any problems) -- at least for the most important aspects of the medal and the presentation of the medal??? or, at least, as I believe Terri77 suggested, a posted vote ... and anyone who registers a "new" name in that time frame would be .... well, either counted less or separated in some fashion such that any ballot stuffing would be obvious ... any username reqistered prior to balloting would be one vote. Just some suggestions to consider ...

[jl109]

I am glad to see others feel the same apprehension about using the phoenix design. I wrote earlier on this in the first thread that I think it implies that she is rising from ashes. You can downplay that part of it, but it is there. It is the only part of the project that has bothered me, but I am going to accept what the majority vote for. I just hope Michelle doesn't get to thinking about it if we have the phoenix on the medal. I think the 6.0 describes how I feel. Perhaps just one large 6.0 to avoid the "666" thing. I am thrilled to be a part of this project no matter what we decide on.

[skatingfan5]

I understand the concerns of those for whom the phoenix only means "rising from the ashes" and who therefore do not want this symbol as part of our medal for Michelle. I tried to find the thread that had all the earlier discussion about this, but I think it may have slipped off the forum -- I think it was in the very first thread (entitled "Let's do something special for Michelle" or something like that). However, I did manage to find a Word document that I saved which contains quite a bit of stuff on the phoenix -- I'm not sure if this was all posted by me or some of the items were quotes posted by someone else -- sorry about that! As you will see, the "rising from the ashes" is only a very small part of the phoenix symbolism -- especially in Chinese legend and culture. So, while the "rebirth and regeneration" aspect holds true -- and for me it is a very strong metaphor for how Michelle has always come back stronger than ever from disappointments in her skating career over the years -- I like all the additional elements that the phoenix symbolizes, as described below:

The phoenix was commonly referred to as the "King of Birds." A supernatural bird, it embodied the five virtues of benevolence, righteousness, propriety, wisdom, and sincerity. As such, it harmed neither a single insect nor blade of grass... Therefore, any reported sighting of a dragon and a phoenix was considered an extremely auspicious sign, said to herald a glorious period of peace and prosperity for the people and the country. This is reflected in the Chinese saying, "When the dragon soars and the phoenix dances, the people will enjoy happiness for years, bringing peace and tranquility to all under heaven." (Unfortunately, I can't find the URL from where I got this quote.)

PHOENIX - Emblem of the Empress and of beauty. Only appears in time of peace and prosperity. Ranks second of the four supernatural creatures, the dragon being the first, the unicorn third and the tortoise fourth. A train of small birds is always in attendance when the phoenix flies.
www.antiqueresources.com/articles/symbols.html (http://www.antiqueresources.com/articles/symbols.html)

Chinese Character: "Feng" Symbolised by the phoenix - in Chinese legend the phoenix is a bird that is said to appear only at the beginning of a reign of a benign Emperor, when Earth and Heaven are in harmony. It is therefore signifies happiness, joy and splendour. It is the symbol of the Red Bird of Summer, one of the four great Chinese astrological constellations and it is therefore associated with the South Wind.
www.mahjongg.com/circles.htm (http://www.mahjongg.com/circles.htm)

The magnificent mythological Phoenix is one of the 4 celestial creatures in feng shui and is associated with the South, Sun, Summer and the element of Fire. The Phoenix symbolizes resilience, rebirth, renewal, regeneration; rising from the ashes of destruction; soaring to great heights of success and prosperity. The Phoenix is associated with an era of peace and joy bringing a fresh start and exciting new opportunities.
www.fengshuiboston.com/phoenix.html (http://www.fengshuiboston.com/phoenix.html)

Some more information about the phoenix in Chinese symbolism from a site (for antique Chinese furniture of all things!) called The Dragon and the Phoenix:
www.dragonphoenix.co.uk/index.html (http://www.dragonphoenix.co.uk/index.html)
"These two celestial creatures are paired together to represent the union of the Yang energy of the Dragon and the Yin energy of the Phoenix. They are the ultimate symbol of good luck and harmony."

Michelle's lucky gold charm from her grandmother features the Chinese character for dragon, doesn't it? When we finally decide on design for the medal, if it does indeed incorporate a phoenix, it doesn't have to be a picture of the phoenix itself, it could also be the Chinese characters.
*****************
OK, all the above I think was posted before. Let me add that I especially liked the phoenix design formed from the stylized letters M K F -- and think it would be a nice way to subtly incorporate both the phoenix motif and also indicate who the medal was from.

Finally, in case anyone wasn't around at the beginning of the medal planning and wondered why we want to use platinum for this medal: Platinum is the symbol of quality and understated elegance. It is rarer and more precious than gold and also stronger and more enduring. So for me, a "platinum phoenix" medal would seen to exemplify Michelle's career and character and show her how much her skating, sportsmanship and spirit have meant to us over the years.

[FlashOBlue]

Thanks Skatingfan5. Your research is wonderful! I had just about given up on incorporating the Phoenix, but now I really want to use it in some way. The Phoenix is so Michelle!

And Raquellina, I agree that we vote for the total front side first then once that's settled go on to the back.

As much as we would love to imagine Michelle sitting around, handling and gazing at this medal I feel that at best it will hang in a locked case or sit in a safety deposit box. Thus just one side will show. Of course Michelle will *know* what's on the back, but I'd reather see the back be a simple inscription. Also that way there will be more $$$ for the charity that will help people. I know the vote is already happening, so it may be too late.

Since Michelle is so elegant and classy, I'd like the medal to be the same! The medal will be enough stating our thanks and appreciation. She knows her accomplishments and has other medals, crystal bowls and inscribed awards for each of those already.

[XPEG]

Skatingfan made a good point about how the medal will look once it's put together. We may vote on two sides we like but they may not complement each other when put together. Or we may like a design in the abstract shown online, but it would like too "cluttered" or "busy" when actually engraved or sculptured. What is the saying: a zebra is a horse put together by a committee.

I'm in favor of everybody voting, but having a few people who are actually involved in getting the medal made to oversee the final product to make recommendations and final decisions about continuity and total overall appearance.

Liked the long description of the Phoenix. Would Michelle know all that if she sees the phoenix on her medal?

[skatingfan5]

FlashoBlue: Voting on a one-sided vs. two-sided medal is indeed underway, and the trend is to have a "sculpted" image on both sides. However, I am keeping an open mind about what this means -- I see it as meaning that there would be the "go ahead" to spend the money necessary to do a sculpted image on both sides, should that be the final design choice for the medal (think of it as budgetary pre-approval). When I last spoke with Marty Colwell, he clarified that for some designs, this would not be necessary -- but it would be, if we were trying to have the image actually look like Michelle. Again, what was necessary/recommended would depend on the final design choices we make. I too am leaning towards only having a significant design on the front, with the back being simpler -- possibly just an inscription -- but there is probably a large range of possibilities between the two ends of this spectrum. I suspect that the artists at NWTM may have some suggestions that we have not yet even thought of.

Xpeg: You asked if Michelle know all the symbolism behind the image if she saw a phoenix on her medal (whether "realistic," stylized, or just the Chinese characters). Probably not at first glance -- which is why I think whatever design we choose, it would be nice to have a small presentation book to go with the medal, in which we could briefly state what the medal represented (at the very least, the symbolism of it being platinum) and also list the names (forum and/or "real") of everyone who contributed to the project. I know that Splits is working on a scrapbook to go with this medal project which might contain all the medal designs, all the suggested inscriptions, and special individual messages for Michelle. I envisioned this book as something different -- quite small (the size of the medal box or case, maybe 4 inches square or so). Just an idea.

I also tend to agree with Peg's notion that if we listed Michelle's major medals won and 6.0's earned, it would be something that could become out-dated, so I would be more in favor of something more "timeless", though having "2002" along with "MKF" on the medal would seem to make sense. Again, JMO.

[iloveskating]

The phoenix concept, while I know it is very meaningful to some posters, does not resonate with me, and in light of the many beautiful and appropriate designs submitted, I would vote for something instead of the phoenix concept. That is my opinion & that's why we will vote.

Another idea to consider in voting, if we want a simple majority or 2/3 etc, we will need to go through multiple iterations to get to that point. With so many designs submitted, it is likely that no single design will get a majority the 1st time. If we go with a 'plurality' i.e. the design that gets the 'most' votes, it means we would select a design that the majority of people did NOT vote for. So it will be important to narrow down the list through multiple votes.

I favor that only contributors vote, with a possible exception for an extra 5-10% of people who were unable to contribute. I'm not sure off hand how many people have contributed, but for example if 500 people contributed, then we could allow another 25-50 people who were unable to contribute to vote. I think most people should be able to contribute even $1, unless they are in true poverty or perhaps children whose parents do not want them sending money to 'strangers'. I agree that we can trust most people to vote only once but it would take only 1-2 trolls to mess things up.

I am looking forward to seeing this project move ahead!!

[kyla]

Thanks for more information on the Phoenix symbol, but my personal feelings about using it remain the same. The advantage of putting Michelle's numerous titles/accomplishments on the back of the medal is that it elevates it from a generic design to something very meaningful. Yes, we could put a message or saying on the back or something about the MKF.... but this medal should really be about Michelle, not us. I would love for Michelle to look at this medal and say to herself, I really have accomplished alot that is meaningful and important in the world of figure skating and there are alot of people out there who care about me and recognize this. The fact that WE are giving her the medal is about US and how we feel about her, we don't need to necessarily promote that in a MAJOR WAY on the medal. This medal should be about Michelle and why she has been so important to figure skating. I would hate to see this turn into an over indulgent, maudlin representation about our feelings for her; that would be very declasse and possibly embarassing for her. Again, this is just my personal opinion.

[michellekwansfan]

Hi all,

Well, it's been a while since I've been able to get here and post at length, but here I finally am -- ta da! -- with my apologies for being late in helping to coordinate this project, as well as a statement that, since the votes clearly favor a two-sided medal, we might as well get on with the rest of the process, and therefore, mkisthebest and I should have a poll up within the next few days. (If you're reading this, mkisthebest, you should have an e-mail from me waiting in your inbox. ;) ) We're hoping to categorize and consolidate the various options so that the voting will be as clear and non-confusing as possible. Thank you for your patience, and have a great night (or day, whatever your particular time zone says ;) )! :)

-- michellekwansfan

[Terri]

More thoughts. Rather than listing her titles, maybe we could list accomplishments so that they don't become outdated. For example, instead of saying 4-time world champion, just say world champion. Also, most decorated skater, Sullivan award winner, USOC athlete of the year/month, Sportswoman of the year, Olympic medalist, National champion, Skater of the year.

I think the medal can be about her accomplishments and her impact of her fans without it being overdone, if it's done well. I can also see us voting on what we want and then handing it to a committee, chosen by contributors, to refine the design. That's a good idea to those who brought it up.

[mkisthebest]

Regarding my suggestion of polling all the front and back design entries for voting to arrive at the final designs, I just meant that when we are voting on the front or back side, we should try to include as much as good ideas from the 33 entries regardless of their labeled "front" or "back" entries, and that is why I suggest polling all of them into voting. Because I want us to have the chance of pulling parts of a front design entry and incorporating them into the back design if we want to. Nevertheless, we are still doing one side of the medal at a time, to avoid any duplication.

Through this thread, I want to find out how to set up the voting process, and the first order is to determine which entries are to be listed as voting options and for which side.

I may have jumped the gun when I start going into what design to be used for the back and cause a lot of confusion.

Any suggestion on how to set up a multiple-voting poll so we can have more than five options for each categories?

[peglewis]

Currently, a member of SkateFans is running a poll to survey the demographics of the list because a lot of people requested that during the last season. She's using this poll:


www.nabocorp.firstream.net/nabopoll (http://www.nabocorp.firstream.net/nabopoll)

I don't know anything about it, personally, because I was not involved in setting up the survey, but she had a lot of categories. There seems to be a lot of information about the poll at that above URL, however.

Peg

[iloveskating]

I really like the idea of listing Michelle's accomplishments on the back of the medal. I think they should be specific also. Saying 4 time world champ is more meaningful than saying simply 'world champ.' It would be a snapshot of her career/accomplishments at this time, so it doesn't bother me that it could become 'outdated' if she continues to compete & earns more titles. Awards are always given based on past accomplishments not future ones. We can also include the current date or year on the medal to provide a reference point. I can't wait for the voting to start!

[mkjsdp]

I have to argue against listing Michelle's accomplishments on the medal. I don't see why it's necessary since Michelle knows everything she's done and alreadyhas medals for those. This is a medal FOR Michelle, not ABOUT Michelle. At least that's my impression. It'd be like giving someone a birthday card and writing a biography about the person on it instead of just saying "Happy Birthday". That's the same reason I don't like the idea of having an image of Michelle on the medal. It's like we're trying to put her entire life onto a piece of metal...and that's all well and good...for us. But we're doing this for her. We shouldn't be telling her what she's done, we should be telling her that we love her for doing it. We love her, we're proud of her, she brings joy to our lives. It's about Michelle the person, not Michelle the skater who won this and this and that. Not that her accomplishments are insignificant or anything, it's just we don't need to draw attention to something that she's well aware of. That will make the medal just like every other medal she has. We want this to be unique and tell her everything that we feel in a 3 inch medal, listing her titles would take up precious space. I think all we really need is a simple but meaningful sentence that can say it all. But that's quite a task in itself. Anyway, just my 2 cents.

[kyla]

This is not just about a medal FOR Michelle, it needs to be meaningful as well. Anyone can make a medal FOR Michelle. It is very much ABOUT Michelle and what she means to the world of figure skating and especially to us. Although she knows how her fans feel about her, including an appropriate message along those lines as part of the medal, isn't an issue. That's fine and should be part of the design. To put a list of her accomplishements, in some form, on the medal creates a piece of personal history, as well as skating history, that is memorable and unique. She has plenty of medals that are essentially generic. She also has plenty of correspondence telling her how wonderful we think she is. We need to design this medal to make it unique and very special. Putting a list of her triumphs on it would be one way to do it (and a lovely way at that), without being maudlin or overly sentimental. I am not saying, eliminate any message altogether, but to do it judiciously, along with other components to make it even more special.

[skatingfan5]

about the medal project because in it were a lot of wonderful reasons why we wanted to give Michelle this medal -- and iirc, the thought behind many of them was that in our eyes -- and hearts -- Michelle Kwan, the skater and the person, transcended the ordinary realm of competitive figure skating. Thus this medal was going to be not so much in honor of the many accomplishments in her long and record-setting eligible career, but rather how: 1) her skating is very special -- both in its beauty, its purity of technique, and its ability to move many of us emotionally, 2) her character as a competitior and sportswoman is of the very highest quality -- as such, she is a wonderful role model for others coming up in the ranks, 3) the way she has graciously handled some very hard losses -- with no blaming or excuses or sour grapes -- just a true class act, 4) her commitment to growth in all areas of her life, not just in her skating, as exemplified by her pursuing her college education, her continuing close ties with her family, etc. ..... None of the above things is at all dependent on her being the "4-time World, 6-time U.S. National gold medalist, etc." I guess I agree with those who think that listing Michelle's "resume highlights" on the medal is somehow going against what I originally thought (and hoped) that this medal was going to be about -- a way of showing how much I (and many other figure skating fans) admire and respect Michelle Kwan for so many things that have little or nothing to do with her "winning record." As always, JMO.

[FlashOBlue]

I totally agree with mkjsdp and skatingfan5. To me, the medal is about my love and respect for Michelle and my thanks to her for being so lovely -- in skating and in life.

[Terri]

I agree with all of you to a certain extent. I think this medal will end up being a little bit about everything that previous posters have mentioned. I also think this discussion shows how important it is that we have a vote by everyone on some basic points of what will be on the medal.

[kyla]

Terri77, thanks for taking a balanced point of view. To others who seem to be missing my point, no one is saying that there shouldn't be a message/saying/quote about how we feel about Michelle/what she has mean't to us. But if we want this medal to have substance, there be should be something else on it that acknowledges what Michelle has accomplished in her career. The MANY wonderful design concepts acknowledge this, it isn't just my idea. In fact, the idea came from one of the medal designs. As far as the original reason for giving the medal goes, well, we wanted to give it to her for many reasons, all of them good. I think there are ways to satisfy most of us by incorporating different parts of designs into the overall medal design. Hopefully, the end result will be a coherent, unified, and beautiful design. But it will require keeping an open mind, something I hope we all can do.

[Jimbo]

I don't care what is finally decided on the medal design. Whatever it is will be fine with me. If Heather or Anna or whomever makes the decision, just stick with the choice and go with it.

I am sure that it will be great because we are doing something for a very, very special person.

[Aslan's Girl]

Thanks skatingfan5 for the information on the phoenix. I really rather like the idea now! I obviously missed all the original postings on it, so thank you very much! I really love the picture of the phoenix that someone used in the medal design section, it was an image of the bird from a computer program. I think that with Michelle knowing Chinese legends, she will know what we mean by it, but I'd love to print out the legend to send with the medal if we decide indeed on a phoenix.

I also wonder about listing her accomplishments. To me it wouldn't matter if she ever won anything, I just love her skating for the reasons skatingfan5 listed. Her titles are like icing on the cake for me and besides, she's not finished yet ;)

Bridget :)

[Shallah]

what we admire and love about Michelle is not her medals, her 6.0s, the awards she won but herself & her skating. I would prefer a design & inscription that expresses this and would rather not have one that lists her accomplishments. As wonderful as awards, medals & perfect scores are I would love Michelle's skating no matter if she never won a thing. Her skating has brought me to tears, made me hold my breath and gasp aloud at the beauty. There are many excellent skaters who have won medals, awards & 6.0s who have not ever moved me like this.

Also I am tiny bit concered that Michelle might think our admiration is dependent upon winning things and not the grace and beauty she excels at on and off the ice. I do not wish her to think for one nanosecond that we are disappointed in her if she does not rake in more medals & 6.0s.

She has recently talked of how much her fans mean to her and how the fact that we still like her after winning bronze at the Olympics makes her feel good. Michelle said after winning Skating Magazine's Reader's Choice Award "My fans are like family to me. The fact that they felt I was deserving of this award makes it very special." I believe that anything we come up with will touch her and make her feel appreciated :-)

[peglewis]

Which is another reason why a simple "thank you" might be nice, because Michelle did say in an interview that she appreciates the fan thank-yous. Why not a tangible, permanent expression of that.

(Of course, even though many of us don't care about the titles, it's obvious that several of us DO care, and care about them to perhaps an obsessive degree. Titles are obvious in some sig quotes I read around the web, for fans of many different skaters. I'm sure there will be many who would like to see a resume engraved... but this is beyond titles. This is a token of esteem.)

Peg

[jl109]

I know of two examples now that use the phoenix symbolism.
On the news I heard they call the rebuilding of the Pentagon after the 9/11 attack Project Phoenix.

Also, the SETI (Search for Extra-terrestrial Intelligence) lost its funding and had to end. Then they got money from a different source and called it Operation Phoenix.

Most people think of Phoenix as something rising from the ashes of destruction. I would just want to stay away from that implication.

On the web sites with the meaning of the Chinese Phoenix, 3 of the 4 didn't mention anything about ashes. So I guess if we do vote on it and the majority want the phoenix symbol, then I think it was said we would print out the Chinese version of the meaning of it.

In my dictionary they say it is derived from Egyptian mythology--first meaning, a bird that consumed itself by fire and rose from its ashes
Second meaning: A person or thing of unsurpassed excellence or beauty (from Greek Phoinix; perhaps from Egyptian bynw, phoenix.

So the second, less preferred and less used meaning fits Michelle. We would just have to make sure she knows that it is the second meaning and not the first we are using.

I still think we should avoid it.

[probativev]

For all its symbolism, I must say that I'm not too crazy about the pheonix either. I'd rather see an stylized image of her signature move on one side, and on the back side either some meaningful words and/or the beautiful design of a pair of skates that someone (forgot who) submitted.

I'm also not that much for the list of her accomplishment. Michelle said that she doesn't want to be remembered for her medal counts. I think words like "Heart of a Champion, Champion of Our Hearts" and a simple "Thank you" say so much more.

All that said, I will be happy to go with whatever the majority decides. I do share the worry of vote stuffing. But then again, we've all operated on a lot of faith and trust in organizing this project. Good faith is what got us to where we are now, so maybe the best policy is still to trust that everyone will submit one vote only. If we focus too much on mistrust, that we might destroy the good faith needed to get us through this project.

Alexa

[Kwadruple]

ITA with Shallah + SkatingFan5. I'd rather this medal be more repesentative of what Michelle can do on the ice overall, and her unbelievable character displayed both in good times and bad. She already has medals for all of her accomplishments.

[Banannak]

Actually - when Michelle was asked on Leno what she wanted people to say to her post SLC - what I remember her saying was that she wished people would say "We're proud of you" not "thank you". Did she at some point say she wanted thank you's? I don't remember that.

I like the idea of her fans - specifically the MKF - giving her a platinum medal, that we raised the money for. I like the idea someone had of the medal having some gold/silver/bronze on it - to indicate that medal color doesn't matter to us. I would love to see a silhouette of Michelle in the split falling leaf (would we need permission if it is a silhouette?) and some wording to the effect of the impact she has made for us. That we are proud of her, that to us she *IS* figure skating, champion of our hearts, a legend etc. This medal should be like a people's choice award. No critics/judges. Therefore, although I will definitely go along with whatever others want, I think we should narrow our focus from - awards/medals/accomplishments, mythology, chinese symbols (which can be very tricky anyway - there are so many subtly different symbols for words) to simply something that will depict our admiration for her, past-present and future. She is a very complex person so the medal should be something simple for someone who is simply the best.

Just my .2

Anna

[Shallah]

The phoenix is a rare and magical creatue. One story of the western phoenix is that only one can exist at a time just as there is only one Michelle Kwan. In the American Heritage Dictionary the definition of Phoenix lists after the mythological meaning it says A person or thing of unsurpassed excellence or beauty; a paragon. I know some of you all don't like the phoenix and the 'rising from the ashes' yet this is something I myself like. It means never give up, you can get over or through your troubles. Many times the media has predicted the end of the "Kwan Era" and tried to decided who is the 'next Michelle Kwan' and yet she always came back stronger and better. To me the phoenix represents Michelle's indomitable will to be the best skater she is capable of being.

Michelle wears her dragon pendent all the time and yet western dragon legends have them devouring young women, fighting and destroying villages, etc. Eastern dragons are much more positive symbols and according to what I have read are often paired with the Phoenix with the dragon representing yang and the phoenix yin. If a phoenix design was chosen this would balance the energy of Michelle's jewelry collection quite nicely http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/images/emoticons/happy.gif

[kyla]

I realize we all have different ideas on how we would like to see the medal designed, but I would like to think we could do this without taking pot shots at each other. Peg, I don't think anyone is obsessive about her titles. Some of us think putting her titles on the back of the medal would be nice for Michelle to be able to look at, at a glance. Someone else suggested putting something more simple on it, such as The Most Decorated American Skater of All Time, another good idea. I would love for her to be able to look at the medal and be very proud of what she has accomplished. Remember, this is from someone who thinks Michelle is the greatest skater of all time, WITHOUT the Olympic gold medal. If in the final design the medal doesn't incorporate that idea, that's o.k., the majority should rule. From just the postings on this thread, I can see we all have different visions, ALL OF THEM WORTHY (including the Phoenix). While we are working on the medal design, and eventually voting on it, let's try to be gracious about it. That way, when all is said and done (voted on), there will be no hard feelings and we can all support the final design, whatever it may be. I know she will be thrilled with whatever we come up with.

[mkjsdp]

Ok, Peg (I think?) brought up a good point that some people do feel strongly about the titles thing, and I guess we shouldn't just dismiss that. So I'm thinking we need to compromise. It's been brought up before the idea that we make a case to go along with the medal...maybe we should go for that? It could just be something simple, but maybe we could engrave her resume on the case instead? That way it wouldn't take up as much room on the medal, but it'd still be there. I mean, we donated over 3 times the amount we need for the medal...so we have some extra cash to spend. A hundred dollars wouldn't make all that much difference to the charity donation. Would that make everyone happy? It'd also give us a lot more room to play with with putting on what everyone wants. The only thing is it might make this project more complicated.....but it's an option.

[peglewis]

It's not a "pot shot" to notice that some of us have sig quotes here and elsewhere that talk about the color of medals for their favorite skaters, or the titles they've won. And taking note of such firm beliefs helps people with various points of view here understand that coming to a concensus is going to take patience and maturity. ;)

And mkjsdp... compromise is a very good thing. :D

Peg

[kyla]

I agree that respect and compromise are very good things. A good idea mkjsdp regarding the case, one that we could consider.

[Trystine]

I've been lurking here for a while...and I've been following medal process.


I've always thought simple was better...

"Forever the Champion of our Hearts"

Michelle you make us proud!

MKF 2002

Whether this would be something to use wherever, is totally how people vote.

[thetoaofben]

Hi everyone,
I really liked all the designs that were submitted- looking at them all just comes to show how Michelle has affected us all. I think that after we pick the designs for the medal, we should at least put together a collage of all the designs that were submitted. This would honor everyone's hard work. These designs were made from the heart of Michelle's fans. I would support any medal design that is chosen- after all they all mean to say the same thing, don't they? My only suggestion is that the medal should at least reflect Michelle's character. All i know is that she is very simple- beautiful and mezmerizing- yet quite simple.

BEN~

[madison]

I would like to see the medal with mostly platinum finish (exterior!), and VERY well-done sculpted image(s) of Michelle on either side, with a brief message such as 'champion of our hearts' or 'forever a legend' or something like that, and the date.

It matters less to me whatever else people what to put on the medal and much more that it is done very well and classy.

I don't care for listing her accomplishments, cause I already think she knows them:) ) When this medal was in the works, I think what was discussed at that time was a medal to show Michelle our love and gratitude for her incredible skating talent and her incredibly wonderful personality. I thought it was intended to be a medal from us to her.

So, the phoenix idea leaves me a little cold, because more than one meaning can be attributed to it. Also, I don't want to give Michelle ANY notion that her career is over, so listing her skating champoinships seems to me like 'the end.'

Other than that, I am open-minded:) )))) JMHO.

[Raeshondaaa]

I would first like to thank everyone that submitted a design. I am not creative enough to come up with anything on my own. As far as voting goes, there is no one medal that I like so far. There are qualities of several medals that I love.

This question is for anyone that can answer: When it is time to vote for the medal are we voting on the designs that have already been presented or different qualities of medals? I have been trying to keep up with the different post, etc.. but I am getting lost in the shuffle.

When I think about Michelle I think about some of the following qualities:

Her love for skating,
Her love for her family and culture
Legend in her own time
Perfection

So when I think of a medal design I like the following medals:

Kathy's design: I like the three medal tone idea with the platinum base with the three different images.

Modicum's design: I like the Chinese characters, except I would like to use the letter on her necklace since that means so much to her. Does anyone remember what it means? I remember her talking about the meaning but I do not remember. If it has something to do with strength, determination, etc. I think it would be appropriate for the occasion.

Kristen's design: I love the quality of the graphics of her the poses, especially the final pose.

Shallah's design: I like the wording on the back because I think it very much represents how I, not sure about others, feel about her contribution to us as fans and to the skating community. I think someone said somewhere that she doe not want to be thanked, instead of saying thank, we can say how proud, etc...

To put them all together:

Front: Kathy's colors with the graphics of Kristen's designs. Where Kristen had two designs and Kathy's has three, the third design on the side could be the design from her necklace.

Back: Use the coloring from Kathy's back with the wording of Shallah's back. Maybe put 6.0 around the edges, not just 6666. I am not sure about anymore more details because I do not want it to become too busy.

That's my pennies worth.... I just that is more like 10 cents instead of a few pennies. Sorry it was so long.

[DeeDeeA]

I really like the idea of the phoenix on the medal. The medal is for Michelle, not her fans, and if the phoenix has special significance to the Chinese people, I think it would be very appropriate to use it.

[Aslan's Girl]

I thought it was so sweet when Michelle said on Dateline that she wanted ppl to say that they are proud of her. I think it would be nice to say that on the medal :)

[iloveskating]

Has Michelle ever commented on this symbol? If she has, that would make me feel like it is more appropriate. Other wise, to say it is meaningful to all Chinese people, to me is a pretty broad generalization and we don't know how it applies to Michelle specifically.

[cruelladekwan]

Just wondering where we all are with this project...I wanted to volunteer to be an email ballot collector if it comes to that...I have Broadband and could accept a large amount of emails if needed.

Please let me know organizers!

MaryJo

[iloveskating]

I am concerned to keep this process moving. It has been a month since much progress has been made on the voting. michellekwansfan did a great job of thinking through the categories, etc., but it seems like she has not had the time to put anything together for the actual vote.

Here is my proposal:
1. I downloaded all the medal designs & mottos, etc. I will volunteer to go through them and make a list of items to go in each category.

2. I can post my list either here or on Heather's site. All the contributors can download the 'ballot', mark it, and e-mail it back to someone. I suggest that someone else volunteer to receive and count the ballots. I know that a few people have indicated a willingness to help.

3. I suggest that for some or all categories we use a technique called "multi-voting" because there are so many items to choose from and people may like more than one specific item. In multi-voting, each voter would get more than one vote per item. For example, in the "Graphics" category each person could get 2-3 votes. You can vote all 3 votes for one item if you really really love it, 2 votes for your 1st choice & 1 vote for your 2nd choice, or 1 vote each for 3 different items. It is a way of "weighting" your vote & level of interest, while keeping it fair for everyone. And it is easier to tally than actually voting 1st, 2nd & 3rd choices, because every vote is the same. So the ballot would say "3 votes in this category".

4. After the initial votes are tallied, we will review the results and decide if we need a 'run-off' vote in any category. Once the basic elements are decided, then 1 or more designers will put together the basic medal design.

Do people like this approach and do you want to move ahead? If people support this approach, I will commit to having the 'ballot' ready by Tuesday 5/28.

<!--EZCODE BOLD START--> Edited to add:<!--EZCODE BOLD END-->
If you want to volunteer, please 'private message' me with your email address. This will help me collecte everything in one place, so I don't have to comb thru all the messages. To 'private message' me, just click on my name and then click on send e-mail. Thanks.

[leon]

A GREAT pathforward -- iloveskating --
The only thing I might add is that the ballots get mailed back to several volunteers so that they can check each other and agree on the totals.
No chads, please ( couldn't resist that!)

At some point a decision on how to make a decision is going to have to be made... iloveskating has done us all a favor.

leon

[Terri]

Thanks iloveskating and everyone working hard on this medal project. If you need my help in any way please let me know. I'm anxious to be of any help.

[Aslan's Girl]

I know we're concerned about "stuffing the ballot", but I was wondering if we would have a "one vote per e-mail/account (here at ezboard)" or what because both my mom and I share a computer and we'd both like to vote...

Also, no hanging chads, dimpled or otherwise, lol!

[mkisthebest]

Hi, everyone, taking cues from our discussion, I am ready to post the first poll on specific designs for the medal project. I am working out the graphics details, but I have no idea how to go about limiting one vote per username and I need help if most of you feel strongly about this. I haven't seen any polls done this way, so I don't know if it can be done with the exception of write-in open voting.

So let's talk about this, or do we need a poll before the vote to decide on "how do we vote?"

[iloveskating]

I had no idea you had taken the lead on the ballot. I posted messages about where are we at with this project for the last 2 weeks and no one responded so last week I volunteered to make the ballot and people said ok. I am ready to post it and now I don't know what to do. If you would like to 'private message' me perhaps we can talk, or find a way to combine our ideas. Your private message is not activated so I cannot email you. Simply click on my name, then click send email. Thanks.

[mkisthebest]

Dear iloveskating, go ahead with the ballot, I was coordinating with MichelleKwanFan to come up with the voting categories when I started this thread but I am kind of stuck with limited choices on poll. Please go ahead with your ballot, I am glad to see someone taking the lead. Looking forward to vote!

[iloveskating]

I have posted the ballot and I need a few people to help me TEST it. Please go to this message for instructions. Thanks.
pub1.ezboard.com/fmichell...4302.topic (http://pub1.ezboard.com/fmichellekwanforummkfanchat.showMessage?topicID=14 302.topic)

[barbnf]

for something simple and classy ...

I like Trystine's ideas ... and the 6.0s ...

Capture please ... "We're so very proud of you!"

Also, "Champion of our Hearts, forever!"

Multiple medals sounds good ...

No offense, but I do NOT like the phoenix or the listing of her accomplishments ...too complex and too busy ...

Less really is More for this type of thing ... say a LOT with fewer words and less busy-ness ... My 2 cents worth ...:) ...

[Heather]

Since the voting for a design has now started, I figured I'd close this thread. I'll probably also be starting a new thread, for continuing discussion on the project.

Info on voting can be found here:
pub1.ezboard.com/fmichell...4329.topic (http://pub1.ezboard.com/fmichellekwanforummkfanchat.showMessage?topicID=14 329.topic)