Project Planning Thread #3

[Heather]

I'm starting a third thread on the project because I thought the other one was getting large. Again, anything on the project should be posted in this thread (instead of all over the forum) to keep things less confusing. If you have questions about the medal design submissions, you can post it here or in the Medal Design Info thread here:
pub1.ezboard.com/fmichell...3156.topic (http://pub1.ezboard.com/fmichellekwanforummkfanchat.showMessage?topicID=13 156.topic)

Quick update...lets see, how to donate has been decided, obviously. There is no deadline for that yet, so keep sending your donations to Anna:
pub1.ezboard.com/fmichell...2878.topic (http://pub1.ezboard.com/fmichellekwanforummkfanchat.showMessage?topicID=12 878.topic)

skatinfan5 has been in contact with the two companies that will be involved in making the medal, the NWT mint (the company that will design/make the medal) and Artisan Plating (who would platethe medal with plantinum). Everyone should read what she found out recently from the Project Planning Thread #2, specifically here:
pub1.ezboard.com/fmichell...0&stop=110 (http://pub1.ezboard.com/fmichellekwanforummkfanchat.showMessageRange?topic ID=12505.topic&start=110&stop=110)

We've been discussing the voting process. I think it's obvious the best way to go about it is to vote on specific parts of the different medals, but how to go about that is still undecided. We can continue discussing that here.

I've closed the other thread just so it won't get confusing (people still posting in that thread, but the main discussion going on here...that type of thing.) But I'll leave Thread #2 up for a bit because it contains important info that should be continued. After that's been discussed here, I can move Thread #2 to the Projects section of the forum, like I did for Thread #1.

The past thread, Project Planning Thread #2:
pub1.ezboard.com/fmichell...2505.topic (http://pub1.ezboard.com/fmichellekwanforummkfanchat.showMessage?topicID=12 505.topic)

[michellekwansfan]

8) :) :rollin 8) :) :rollin 8) :) :rollin 8) :) :rollin 8) :) :rollin

It sounds like there are about two more weeks left before voting begins on the medal designs. Right now may be a little bit early for me to do this, but since I'm really excited about this project...:rolleyes ;) Anyway, if it's OK with Heather and the rest of you, I'll volunteer to attempt the categorization of all the design elements (words, phrases, pictures, borders, diamonds, finishing, etc.) so that voting on the final design can be made easier. I don't know how to actually post polls in the "Projects" section, so maybe Heather will do that (or tell me how to, if it can be done easily from a PC), but I love organizing information and tallying numbers, and I have been dying to help in some way with this project beyond contributing money, so here goes. As long as this idea is OK with Heather, I would love to have input from the rest of you concerning exactly what categories should be created and what kind of voting system should be used (voting for first choices only in each category, voting for first, second, and/or third choices in each category, everyone voting for a "custom" design composed of all of his/her favorite elements, etc.). There are a lot of ways this conceivably can be done, and I am only one person with one perspective; I'd love to get different points of view on this. HOWEVER -- Heather, this is your forum, and everyone trusts you in the general facilitation of this project, so if you'd rather decide on all of this yourself or discuss it with only a few other people, I do NOT mean to cause any trouble or step in your space. If I have already done so, just go ahead and boot me back in line, it's your right.

Just my two cents...:rolleyes ;) :p

-- michellekwansfan

[Heather]

michellekwansfan-Oh, no, I'd love that!! Yes, thank you so much! It's not too early, this may take a while. And if it's finished close to the deadline, then we can vote right away (I'll be away the weekend after the deadline, so the earliest the voting would start is that Monday or Tuesday.) You can always e-mail me the info, and I can post it. If you just need to post a poll, you just hit "Add Poll" on instead of "Add Topic" in the projects section.

And...this isn't *my* forum, it's our forum. I am just the moderator, here to help solve problems, that type of thing. This is a group project, any help, suggestions, etc is welcomed. There's no space to be stepped on.

For suggestions, what you said sounds great. So far, maybe (1) main graphic (like the center one, that type of thing) (2) "motto" (and there can be possibilities that weren't used on one of the medals as well) (3) border (4) other graphics (like one had 6s)

[Kwadruple]

Thanks for staying on the ball, Heather:) Things are really moving along nicely. Thanks again to skatingfan5!!

[iceskaterdawn]

Out of curiosity, how do you plan on getting this medal to Michelle? To have some sort of public presentation would require a lot of strings being pulled. Will someone just give it to her the next time they see her at the rink or at a competition, or how is that all going to work.

[FlashOBlue]

I'm in a fog about Artisian plating the NWTM medal. I've read through the posts, but can't find one since the long one about NWTM. What did you find out? Do both companies agree that the medal will be of the same quality? If Artisian plates the medal in platinum will that be the last step? In other words the medal will be all one color, right? Will they be able to polish part of it and matt finish part of it? It will be good to know this before we start voting on designs. Thanks!

[justsk8]

Wow, I have been away from the forum for a little while and I feel so out of the loop- I spent so much time catching up today! Anyway, I think I'm back in, lol. :)

michellekwansfan - I agree with you about voting on the categories for the final medal design rather than on a specific medal, and that way everyone is more apt to be happy with the final product. Since there are so many people involved I think we would have to just vote on each "category" and not on custom medals because there would be so many that one medal probably would not get a clear majority but within each category there probably would be. Like you said, each person would be more likely to be happy with at least one aspect of the design if we went about it in that way. I also think that voting on your top choice for each category would be sufficient although if you can't choose just one and have a "top two" for some category I suppose you could cast your vote for both, but I think that second and third place is not neccessary to begin with. The only way that would be neccessary I think is that if two choices for a certain category were close and there wasn't a clear majority we could have a poll for first choice and second choice, and third if need be and try to find a clearer majority that way. Just my two cents though.

skater23 - I think that we have not even really started to discuss the presentation of the medal just yet because it would be too much to think about. I think once we figure out the design we'll move on to presentation details, because like you already mentioned, there are a lot of aspects to that.

Also, I guess that is has been pretty well-established that people are in favor of a scrapbook, so Colleen and I will have to talk about that some more and I'll start a new thread about that soon for suggestions, ideas, etc.
One thing about the scrapbook- it is very feasible to include many of the sayings, slogans, quotes, etc. into the scrapbook in some way or another that are popular but don't actually make it to the medal design.

[FlashOBlue]

I thin you are GREAT! Love your ideas. Thanks for your enthusiasm! It wore off on me and, man, did I need it today!

[iloveskating]

Thank you for offering to organize the info. The categories Heather suggested encompass what I had in mind when I first suggested voting by category:

<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--> (1) main graphic (like the center one, that type of thing)
(2) "motto" (and there can be possibilities that weren't used on one of the medals as well)
(3) border
(4) other graphics (like one had 6s)<!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->

Also, I would suggest adding something for the backside of the medal..should there be something on the back, if so what?

I agree that each person should vote for ONE item in each category. That will help us narrow down the choices, especially on the first pass. We may need to do a couple of iterations of the survey to narrow things down.

Is there a way to limit the voting to people who are contributing to the medal? I am a "little" concerned about getting a lot of votes from people not contributing, or worse, from outsiders or trolls who have no true interest in supporting Michelle. For example, could the poll be passworded, and people receive the password when they make their contribution? Or would this too difficult to administer? Or am I worrying needlessly?

I would be glad to assist you in coming up with the categories and organizing the survey if that would help. But you sound quite capable!

[iloveskating]

skater23 you ask a good question which I have also been wondering about. We need to start thinking about this, because it could take a while to work out the logistics. I think that a scheduled presentation would be appropriate if that is at all possible. This is a big deal for MKF and it would be so nice to do an official type of presentation. It is so much more that sending flowers or cards.

I also think the presentation should be more than a member hanging out at the rink to see if they run into Michelle. Possible suggestions are:
1) The most obvious is to contact Shep's office, tell him what we are doing & see what he can assist with. After all it would be great PR opportunity. I don't know how easy or hard it would be to get in contact with Shep.
2) We know that Michelle is coming to g-man's fs club in Minneapolis because they won some kind of a contest to meet her. If g-man is willing, could we have him/her make the presentation? Of course, it would have to be cleared with the club too. And I don't know when she is coming to his club & if the medal will be ready by then.
3)Contact Lk Arrow. and see if we can do something at the rink since I guess that's where she is training now. Of course, she is on tour until Aug, so there may be a timing issue. And they won't give out any schedule info unless they really have confidence in who we are.
4) Would it be possible to contact Peter Oppergard/Karen Kwan through their rink? MAYBE they would be a little more accessible than Shep & they would probably be glad to help us make arrangements because they would love to see Michelle recognized!

[Yankees Suck 01]

I think having G-Man give it the medal to her is a great idea. He is a big Michelle fan and seems to represent the forum in a good light. I like that idea.
Either that or contact her agent.

[iceskaterdawn]

Except that I am moving out of state in a couple of months, I could help out with the Lake Arrowhead front, because I used to skate there. Most of the people I knew up there have left as well, but I could probably track someone down. I see Karen and Peter from time to time, but I don't feel comfortable getting either of them involved. Contacting Shep shouldn't be too difficult to do. That would probably be the best idea.

[Heather]

iloveskating-Jenny and I are possibly able to contact some people on that list. My personal choice was to present it at the Lake Arrowhead show, but I don't even know when that will be or if it's possible then. I am going to e-mail someone I originally e-mailed about the project before, but now that things are moving a bit more, I'll have more info for them.

[michellekwansfan]

I've been doing a LOT of thinking about the design information categorization, and it seems to me that we need to vote in two separate stages. I think we need to decide on the basic elements of the design first, right after the design deadline passes. At this point, I see four basic categories for this stage. They are: 1) main graphic (big center image); 2) secondary graphic (e.g., background of 6s); 3) motto; and 4) border. After we decide on those elements, we can move on to the second stage. This would encompass: 1) whether or not we want a back side; 2) whether or not we want more than one motto, and if so, what the second, third, etc., one would be; 3) whether or not we want diamonds; 4) whether or not we want the design to contain more than one color; and 5) whether or not we want multiple types of finishing (i.e., matte, shiny, etc.) on the medal. Basically, we'd be doing the simple stuff first and the more complicated stuff later, lol. :rolleyes ;) :p However, now that I'm thinking about it, we may want to vote on the diamond and back side issues along with the initial elements, since that would remove a lot of complication from the picture before it would start. In order for this voting to go successfully, I need input from the rest of you. What elements do you think we should vote on first? Are there any elements I've missed and need to include here? To Heather specifically: Is it O.K. for us to vote on the diamond and back side issues before the rest of the voting begins? Could I e-mail you a basic medal diagram (NOT a design -- just a picture to help everyone visualize all of the elements involved and where they would be on the medal) for you to post on your medal website? And to anyone who has a computer program superior to MS Paint (:rolleyes ;) :p :lol ) and would be willing to use just a few minutes of your time for this -- after both the first and second voting stages, we'll probably need to post a picture of what the design looks like "so far". Considering the possible complexities of the final design, this would have to involve a much better program than Paint and a much more visual, artistic person than myself. :rolleyes :lol I would be EXTREMELY grateful for any help in this area, and also for ANY input anyone has whatsoever. Thanks!!! :) :) :)

-- michellekwansfan

[Terri]

I think we would have to decide whether we want to have two sides before voting on designs.

[Heather]

michellekwansfan-Sure you can e-mail me me that, and I'll put it on the site.

[iloveskating]

michelleskwanfan, I agree that we will probably need more than one stage of voting, as we narrow down the design options etc as you described. That is a good idea. I think your categories for the front are good. I would put whether or not we have a back side in stage one, not stage 2.

In fact, in stage 1 we could have 2 lists to vote on, one list for the front as you outlined, and a 2nd list for the back. One of the choices would be "no back side". The other back side choices could be different from the front side choices, based on the designs submitted. For example, a list of her medals, the chinese characters, a skating graphic (for ex. if the spiral is on the front, then maybe we would want a split falling leaf, or charlotte on the back). You get the idea.

Another category, probably in stage 2 will be the ribbon color(s).

[michellekwansfan]

You guys have a lot of great ideas -- thanks so much for sharing! :) I'm thinking about the information in your posts, and I think maybe we should move the multiple-motto issue to the stage 1 as well. That way, if the consensus is that we want more than one motto on one or both sides of the medal, we can arrange polls for people's first AND second choices for stage 2. Also, I agree with iloveskating that a poll on ribbon design would be a good addition to the second phase of voting.

If anyone has more ideas, I would love to hear them. Also, if anyone would be willing to work with me on visualizing and computer-drawing the design as we vote on it, please e-mail me at michellekwansfan@yahoo.com -- I would love to talk with you! :)

-- michellekwansfan

[modicum]

Just wanted to say I'm impressed with the progress you all have made on this project. I had to stay away from the Forum for awhile because I was spending too much time here, and when I came back lo and behold you had already figured out how to collect the donations and began collecting design ideas! After the Olympics it seemed like things were taking forever but it's really been moving along. It is neat to see how people working together can accomplish things (also for anyone interested in Sociology the forum is like a little "mini-government" or informal organization where we can get a glimpse of social interaction and what types of decision-making, planning and cooperative behavior work best).

I just wrote my check and I'll be sending it tomorrow, plus I'll submit my design as soon as I finish it. Thanks again to all you planners and keep up the great work!

[Sunnyskate]

I was on break so I was gone and I'd just like to say I like everyone's ideas :) This is a great project! :)

[Sharon]

I live near there. It's actually closer to me than El Segundo, so I would love to be there when it's presented to her :) :) :) :) :) :) !

[iloveskating]

<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--> (also for anyone interested in Sociology the forum is like a little "mini-government" or informal organization where we can get a glimpse of social interaction and what types of decision-making, planning and cooperative behavior work best).<!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->

yes I have thought about this. It is so amazing how this forum, esentially a group of strangers but with one common interest, can work together to accomplish such a huge project, involving egos, ideas, and lots of $$$ too. Maybe it's easier that we don't know each other so well & can't meet face to face. Maybe that keeps a lot of the personality differences & onfusion out of it. Maybe we should send Heather to the middle east to help mediate their problems!

[modicum]

Yes sending Heather is a good idea! :) Maybe we could have the Middle East antagonists set up a "Peace Forum" in cyberspace where they wouldn't have to meet face to face! Plus they would have to type out their ideas, which might give them some clarity of thought, if that's even possible, in addition to being accountable for what they typed on the record.

As far as the cooperation, I was thinking in terms of Anarchy, Socialism, Communism (Community) and Democracy, how it is so difficult to get everyone to agree (ever seen a school board meeting? :) , but possible that the extra time it takes is worth it in terms of everyone having fair and equal input and "owning" the result. But in contrast, when Heather made the "executive decision" of how to handle the donations, it made that part go so much quicker. She's not really "elected," but in a way we all "elected" to be part of this forum/group/coalition, and we all agreed with her decision I guess because she knows more about this person than we do, and for some good reasons (long-term association with long-standing members of the group, evidence of responsibility in that she takes care of this whole site, etc.) we trust her. But she also might not have stayed with that decision if most of us didn't agree (i.e., it's not a dictatorship).

So it is an interesting mix of all that. I guess the Internet in general is like a type of new frontier where new methods of interaction and "governance" (if any) are being explored. (Note I didn't advocate or criticize any type of Gov't or try to start a discussion but just noted we can all take our own ideas of what works from what we see here.) OK I'll shut up now because this thread is about planning, not analysis. But it's so cool that we are doing all this stuff and many of us don't even know each other at all! Which is more testament to Michelle and the qualities that she inspires in people. And a testament to all of us for recognizing it!

[FlashOBlue]

Still want to know what NWTM and Artisian Plating company think about a joint product. We need facts about what is realistically possible before we can organize a vote -- one side, two sides, the cost of each if both are possible, all one color? It seems to me that if a NWTM medal is coated in platinum it will be dull. Can Artisian plate part of the medal leaving a second color or texture? Where are you Skatingfan5?
Forgive me if I've missed posts about this subject.

[modicum]

Someone mentioned including all of our slogans in the scrapbook; we could also just include all the medal designs that people submitted. (Also, and maybe more farfetched, someone here had made a CD of songs to listen to after SLC, would it be too difficult to add another "gift" and also give Michelle a CD of songs that make us think of her or that made us feel better after SLC?) I guess by the time we're done it'll be a whole gift basket!

[SusanaDalia]

Modicum writes: <<<< Someone mentioned including all of our slogans in the scrapbook; we could also just include all the medal designs that people submitted. (Also, and maybe more farfetched, someone here had made a CD of songs to listen to after SLC, would it be too difficult to add another "gift" and also give Michelle a CD of songs that make us think of her or that made us feel better after SLC?) I guess by the time we're done it'll be a whole gift basket! >>>>

Gift basket!! I have been thinking the same thing, LOL!! I had thought about giving Michelle a gift certificate to one of those posh day spas in L.A. so she can relax there after a long season of touring. Maybe that could be incuded if we decide to give her something a little extra. Or perhaps if there is sufficient money donated for the medal and the charity, a little extra can go to that. Maybe as a birthday gift or something. Just a thought......... :)

[michellekwansfan]

...LOL, modicum, that's one of the best ideas I've heard yet!!! :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol I suppose that by the time we're done with this, our project may resemble something of the sort. ;) :p :lol

As far as the voting issue goes: As far as I know, the design submission deadline is three days away, and we're going to start voting a few days after that, so during this week I'll be working on finalizing the voting categories and options. I hope to post a sample list by Thursday or Friday so that you guys can look at it and see if you think it needs any drastic changes before the actual voting begins. As always, I would love to hear any input anyone has, either on this forum or through e-mail. Thanks! :)

-- michellekwansfan

[iloveskating]

There is an endless list of ideas of what we could do for Michelle, and this thread is about the medal. I think we should focus our efforts on the medal and not get sidetracked with other projects. You can always start a thread about other projects, just as barbnf did about starting a permanent foundation.

[skatingfan5]

First of all, thank you to Michellekwansfan and the others who have had great suggestions for how to vote on the medal design ideas. Using categories to vote is a great idea and one that will allow us to have the best of all possibilities. One comment, though, since I think it is pretty much a given conclusion that we will be working with the Northwest Territorital Mint on this project (please correct me if I'm wrong about this). Even though I did not specificically discuss this with Marty Colwell from NWTM, I do not think their coin and medallion minting process will allow for the inclusion of diamonds or other gemstones. The produce a die and then stamp the design in the metal -- I believe that a diamond would need to have a jewelry setting of some kind. So, I don't really think that this is a possibility if we are working with the NWTM. I can check with them and see what they say, but this is my understanding as of now.

Secondly, in answer to FlashoBlue's questions about NWTM and Artisan Plating: <!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote>Quote:<hr> I'm in a fog about Artisian plating the NWTM medal. I've read through the posts, but can't find one since the long one about NWTM. What did you find out? Do both companies agree that the medal will be of the same quality? If Artisian plates the medal in platinum will that be the last step? In other words the medal will be all one color, right? Will they be able to polish part of it and matt finish part of it? It will be good to know this before we start voting on designs. Thanks! <hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> As I said in my March 25 post (the "long one"), NWTM has no problem with our having the medal platinum plated by someone else, if we decide to do that and of course, Artisan Plating would always be starting with a product produced by someone else. As to the quality of the finished product, I agreed that we wouldn't want to compromise the beauty of this medal, so I offered to send a piece of silver jewelry to Artisan Plating as a "trial run". I have since contacted NWTM and they are going to send me one of their sample silver medallions to use for this, so that should give us a very good idea of the quality of Artisan Plating's work.

I'm not sure how to reply to your question about "polished vs. matte" finish of the platinum. My understanding from conversation with NWTM, is that it is the design surface of the medal itself that lends the "finish" to the piece, with the smooth parts being more "polished" looking and other parts of the design that had more relief appearing more "matte". I have just sent an email to Marty Colwell to make sure, but this was my understanding when I asked him about what NWTM's rhodium finish would look like. I will check with Artisan Plating to see if they can selectively plate the medal in platinum (i.e., leave part of the medal with the gold undercoating showing). Hopefully I will have the answer on this before voting begins next week.

edited because I just now saw that FlashoBlue had posted other variations of her questions:
<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote>Quote:<hr> Still want to know what NWTM and Artisian Plating company think about a joint product. We need facts about what is realistically possible before we can organize a vote -- one side, two sides, the cost of each if both are possible, all one color? It seems to me that if a NWTM medal is coated in platinum it will be dull. Can Artisian plate part of the medal leaving a second color or texture? <hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END-->I think I answered some of these questions above and below, but as I said, the cost of having a design on both sides will depend on the type of design used. If it is just a simple inscription with a surrounding border, it would only cost $400-500 more than the $1200-1500 for the sculpted image on the front. If we chose a custom coining die (that can include simple line art, like logos, etc.), this would be $800-$900 for that side. Going with a fully sculpted image on both sides would likely cost $2400-$3000, which at the high end is quite a bit more than the original estimated cost for this project. My understanding is that the platinum-plating done by Artisan plating would result in a shiny, rather than a dull finish (as I was told about NWTM's rhodium plating), but with parts of the design appearing less shiny. Here is what I received from Marty Colwell about this issue (polished vs. matte):
<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote>Quote:<hr> The plating typically takes on the finish of the metal underneath. When you see the silver medallion, you'll see that the 3-d image becomes frosted from flowing across the face of the coining die. The background becomes polished because it's where the metal comes from. When we plate it with gold, the gold is polished where the silver is polished, and the gold is frosted where the silver is frosted.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> I am assuming that this is also the case with the platinum layer, but again, I will check with Artisan Plating about this aspect.

For some reason, I was operating under the assumption that the medal would have at least an inscription of some kind on the back, if not a design element. It didn't occur to me that we would be doing something that was completely blank on the back. I like the idea of the scrapbook as a place to include all those mottos, sayings, and images that don't get incorporated into the final medal design, because the medal is only 3" in diameter, and that couldn't begin to hold all the feelings we have for Michelle. Part of our decision-making during the voting will be to choose design elements and mottos that will not only convey the essence of our feelings, but will also look good in the final design. Sometimes, less is more (when I think of MK skating costumes, it is often the ones with the simplest, but most striking cut and color that are my favorites).

I'm sure we'll also work out the best solution for how and when this medal will be presented to Michelle. Right now I'm leaning in favor of the Lake Arrowhead show idea (I think this is sometime in August -- perhaps it will be after the COI ends). If Heather and Jenny (and other forum members) can be involved, so much the better! Contacting Shep once things are further along on this project would probably be a good idea.

Finally, someone asked (sorry I can't remember who it was!) how much will the medal cost. That will depend on the type of design we choose and also whether we have a one- or two-sided medal, but I think that even if we have a design on the back, it will likely cost no more than $2500. The previous estimate that I posted, was based on having a sculpted design die used for the front and a coining die for the back, and that was $1800-$2300. Given how much $$ we have collected so far, that would allow us to donate more than double the cost of the medal to whatever charity(ies) we choose. And since not everyone who plans to contribute has sent in their $ yet, I would expect that this will go up quite a bit more, which is really great! I had planned to submit a design for the medal myself, but I'm not sure now whether I'll be able to get one done in time. But there are already so many great design ideas submitted, that it really doesn't matter. :)

[iloveskating]

If one of the choices for the back of the medal is a list of her titles (one design shows this) we should be sure to include "2001 Sullivan Award Winner" !!! (she gets the award in 2002 but it is for accomplishments in 2001 so I think it would be called the 2001 award)

[probativev]

It's been a while since I checked this thread. I'm so so happy to see what we are able to accomplished so far. Michelle will be the first (and maybe the only skater ever) to receive a precious medal from her fans!!! I'm thinking that I'll buy a plane ticket to go attend the medal presentation ceremony whenever and wherever it takes place just to be there to see the whole experience! We should really give ourselves a pat on our backs! :)

Alexa

[iloveskating]

Alexa,
I was thinking about going too, if it is done in CA. Maybe I can cash in some frequent flyer miles & go down overnight or something. It depends on what the final arrangements will be for making the presentation, if there will be a way to accomodate some MKFers who want to attend.

[Terri]

I'm also considering attending the presentation. Unless it interferes with my Disney World vacation plans. I have to support Michelle in other ways too! :lol

[probativev]

Wouldn't it be cool if all of us from MKForum who attend the ceremony meet up for dinner afterwards? Hey, maybe we can invite Michelle to join us.

Alexa

[michellekwansfan]

OK, guys, I know I said I'd have a sample list of voting categories and options up by now, but once I started actually going through the designs and trying to categorize their various elements, I realized I was in for a little more than I bargained for. ;) :p Therefore, what I will post right now, besides my apologies, is a list of *voting categories only* (not a complete log of every option in every category) and an attempt to explain it. So here goes. (Remember that these are just the initial categories, meaning that we use them to decide the basics of our design before moving on to the nitty-gritty details.)

CATEGORY 1: MAIN GRAPHIC. Probably the most important category *and* the hardest one to vote on, since we have so many brilliant, creative, and diverse designs to choose from. I already have a list of options that I came up with by reviewing the different designs. As you probably know already, the main graphics in several of the designs contain more than one image, so I am planning to include a combination option in this category. Those who vote for this option would be saying that they want more than one image in the main graphic, but *not* specifying which particular combination of images they want.
***IMPORTANT***: Some design ideas include words as part of the main graphic. If you like this idea, you will need to vote under the "Combination" option!

CATEGORY 2: SECONDARY GRAPHIC. Options in this category run the gamut from a background of 6.0s to Chinese characters to subtle phoenix images...well, you get the idea. ;) Again, I have a list of options ready, and there are so many good ideas that I am thinking of splitting this category in half -- "First Graphic" and "Second Graphic" (with each category containing the same list). That way, people who want two graphics can vote for one graphic under each category, people who only want one can vote "None" under the second category, and those who see secondary graphics as unnecessary clutter can vote "None" under both categories. If some people want more than two, well, I'm sure I can think of a way to include that possibility too.

CATEGORY 3: MOTTO. I saw so many different suggestions among the various designs that this category probably will have the longest list of all. However, I have attempted to shorten it a little by lumping some of the *very* similar ones together. For instance, I would like to "Messages to Michelle" under one option, rather than typing out each individual message I saw. This is NOT a slam against any of the designers; rather, it's an attempt to simplify things so that if the consensus is against including a message to Michelle, we can just drop it, and if it goes the opposite way, we can decide on the exact wording of the message at a later stage. Again, I would like to split this category in half, just as I described under the second category. Of course, "None" and "More than two" would be options here as well.

CATEGORY 4: BORDER. This probably will be a much shorter list (thank goodness), but I am thinking of splitting this category as well. The reason I'm doing this is that some of the designs include a border within a border, and some people might like that idea. As with the second and third categories, I plan to include the "None" and "More than two" options here.

CATEGORY 5: BACK SIDE. The easiest category -- all we need to decide here is whether or not we want to put anything on the back of the medal. If the "yes" option prevails, we can go through this great cycle all over again during the second stage of voting.

All right, I think I've covered all the bases now. If you think this way of voting is too crazy and complicated, or if you think a few ideas here need changing, or if you like it just the way it is...whatever, please don't hesitate to post your opinion here! I REALLY want to do this right and in a way that at least most people here understand and like, and I need input from you all in order to do that. Thanks, and I'm sorry if I confused you! :rolleyes :p

-- michellekwansfan

[skatingfan5]

michellekwansfan: First of all, thank you for all the work you have put into coming up with the categories -- and trying to figure out how to specify the various choices within each category -- I know that it took a lot of time and thought! Several people have raised issues in the past week or two that (1) I hadn't really thought about before or didn't think were a real possibility, or (2) I thought had already be discussed and decided, or (3) have been discussed a lot before, but never really had been resolved (or people seem to have conflicting ideas about what the decision was). How's that for confusing? :lol

Under (1) are things like including diamonds or other jewels in the medal and having a medal that was made up of multiple layers (not the plating, but a very high-relief design). I guess I hadn't really paid attention to these things until I looked through all the designs that had been submitted, but also because I didn't think that they were technically possible, at least not if we were going to be working with the Northwest Territorial Mint (NWTM) -- which is something that falls into category (2). While at least two people had posted some detailed information about other possible makers of the medal, both of these sources were jewelers/jewelry designers and the prices they quoted were quite a bit higher than NWTM (in the $4-$5K range). If I have missed any other possibilities, please let me know. I was operating under the assumption that we would be going with NWTM for this -- but if someone else has information about other definite options, I hope they will post them soon so that we can consider or vote on this, because once we have finalized our choice of the design, it will take at least a month and more likely 6 weeks or more before the design is executed as the finished medal.

Category (3) included the choice of having something on both sides of the medal vs. only one side. Again, I was operating under the assumption (perhaps incorrectly) that we wanted to have at least an inscription on the back. I've since found that there are at least several people (and likely quite a few more) who thought this either hadn't been decided yet or who thought that we had decided to only have the design on the front, with the back being left blank. This is something that will affect not only the final cost to produce the medal, but it might also affect how people vote for the design elements. If you assumed that there would be room on the back for an inscription, and perhaps a design element of some kind, then you might choose differently for the main graphic and motto. If the front was going to be the entire thing, then it might mean a different choice in order to convey everything you wanted. So I think that this is something that might need to be established (one-side only or two-sided) before the voting for the various design elements begins.

Finally, the design for this medal has to be something that is possible to produce -- so we may have the designers at the NWTM (or whoever we go with to produce this) rework the elements that we want included in the design to best fit the medium -- a silver medal that will be stamped/cast. Also, it may be that the very top "vote getters" in each of the categories don't work well together. I could see how the favorite choice for, say, the border might not be the most appropriate to use with the first choice for the main graphic -- and maybe even the motto, depending on its length or complexity. In that case, some sorts of compromises will need to be arrived at -- and again, I think it may be the designers at NWTM who will come up with the best solution. Perhaps we can send them more than one idea, and they can work up two or three alternate designs that we can choose from. I'll have to check with NWTM on this (Mr. Colwell was going to be away from the office until next Tuesday, but I can check at mid-week).

I hope that the above doesn't seem to be putting any kind of "damper" on the medal project process, because that isn't my intention. I just want us not to lock ourselves too tightly into wanting some specifics (such as a border or particular background) which turn out not to be feasible or which don't work with the overall design. I have been amazed at the wide range of wonderful ideas that have been submitted for the medal design and am looking forward to our narrowing things down to a workable number of options when the voting is done. I'm also anxious to learn what our latest total for the $$ is. Things are pretty exciting for this project. :)

[mkisthebest]

Hi, michellekwansfan, thanks for sorting out all the categories, I like your categories and sub-categories but I think it is too much to ask one person to come up with all the descriptions for all the 16 designs and it is especially difficult for anyone to guess what the designers intend as the main graphic or secondary graphic, etc. besides the obvious choices. So as a fellow designer, and I have already done so in my design, maybe we should ask all the designers, who are willing, to submit their own details under each category as short as in a couple of sentences so there is no confusion or misunderstanding and all you have to do is compile everyone's details to be voted on (which is already a lot to do). I believe that after all the time and artwork that they put into their designs, they probably wouldn't mind listing their own categories.

For my own voting, I am trying to put all the designs on the same page so that I don't have to keep flipping through the different designs and I realize that it is a huge job for you to go through all the designs because it is not always clear to me what are the categories, so I want to make a suggestion here if you don't mind! Cannot wait to see what the final design will look like!

[GoldenMichelle]

Did we ever decide on the size of the medal? That will make a difference as to what design to choose. If it is a smaller medal, it would need to be less complictated simply because it is difficult to put a lot of detail into such a small area. I know it was voted on, but don't know if a decision was reached.

[Terri]

From the voting I believe it will be three inches in diameter, a very generous sized medal.

[michellekwansfan]

;) :) :lol :p

Heather -- glad you're back! :) I hate to ask for more of your valuable time, but it looks like we kind of need your input on the voting situation. I have posted my ideas on how we should go about voting on this thread already, and so have some other posters who have very good ideas. It looks like this will be a complicated process no matter how we do it, so if you strongly feel that one way or another would make it easier for everyone, I would love to hear your opinions and will try to re-structure my categories around what you and everyone else thinks is best.

Also: Should we start voting on whether or not to have anything on the back side of the medal now, before we try to decide everything else? Again, I would be happy to post a poll in "Projects" or wherever immediately if that's what everyone decides.

-- michellekwansfan

[skatingfan5]

michellekwansfan: I think the idea of having a "pre-vote" to decide whether to have a medal with designs on one or both sides might be a good idea -- unless, of course, it adds a lot of time to the voting process. Maybe if the vote was "lop-sided" enough (i.e., in favor of one or the other choice), it wouldn't have to be a long period for the voting. If 50 "votes" are cast and they are split 40:10, then I'd say that was a pretty clear choice and no need to wait for 100 votes. Do you have the break-down of what the cost would be for each alternative? If not, I can dig that up from my previous posts.

[probativev]

When will the vote go up, now that medal design submission date has passed? Would only people who actually contributed money or time working on this get to vote (in some way I think that is fair).

Alexa

[iloveskating]

I agree with Alexa. I think only those who contribute should vote. The voting deadline could be 1 week longer than the contribution deadline so that those who haven't contributed yet but plan to will have time to send in their $$ and still get to vote.

I don't want to be 'elitist' if there are those who cannot contribute. But I do not want the medal design determined by many people who have no intention of contributing. If there are people who love Michelle but simply can't afford to give even $1.00, maybe we could allow a limited number of MKFers to vote without contributing...maybe 5-10% of the total voters could fall into this category. (For example, if 500 people contributed, then we could allow 25 (5%) or 50 (10%) non-contributers to vote if there is a good reason they cannot donate. This could also include teenagers whose parents do not want them to send $ to an internet project. I can see how some parents may feel this way, I know it has come up during past projects.

[ObsessiveCompulsiveMKFan]

I just wanted to say that you people have some great ideas!

[Nude Jerri]

I say a pure gold - 24 karat- medal would look gorgeous. the medals that they give out at the olympics are not even pure gold. platinum looks similar to silver. pure gold is beautiful. and I bet michelle would love a pure gold medal.

of course- her family have probably given her 24 karat jewelry.

[Forever Loyal]

Any news on when and how we are going to vote??

[iloveskating]

Yes, what is the status of this project and the voting? We haven't heard anything new this week and are eager to make this happen!

[GoldenMichelle]

I disagree on the voting issue. I think everyone should be allowed to vote regardless of whether they have contributed or not. We all are Michelle fans, and we all can make a contribution simply by voting. And since we have a predetermined set of designs to vote for which are all beautiful, and in truth no matter which one we decide on, it will be lovely, I think it won't matter if we allow the non-contributors to vote. If they aren't able to make a contribution, I'm sure that it would make them even more eager to contribute to the project in some other way, so why not by voting.

[mkisthebest]

:D I have started a poll on "Michelle Kwan Projects" thread to find out how many of us want to have a two-sided medal now that we have exceeded our expectation on the donations, approaching $12,000 (updated 5/9/02)! :) I also include a costs breakdown based on Skatingfan5's research.

Please stop by my poll and thanks for participating. :D

pub1.ezboard.com/fmichellekwanforumletscongratulatemichelle.showMes sage?topicID=133.topic (http://pub1.ezboard.com/fmichellekwanforumletscongratulatemichelle.showMes sage?topicID=133.topic)

[Scholastica]

I have an idea...

After I saw Anna's report, I think that we would definitely have enough money to make an amazing medal for MK and donate to charitable organizations.

So, I was thinking that it would be a wonderful idea to found "Michelle Kwan Scholarship" for students who cannot afford to study at university/college this year. What do you think? Wouldn't it be really cool and honour MK so well by helping out poor students to realize their dreams? Just a suggestion...

[michellekwansfan]

Hi mkisthebest -- I just read your post & poll yesterday and am just getting to post-replying and e-mailing today. :rolleyes ;) Anyway, if you're reading this thread, could you e-mail or PM me so we can talk about the project voting? My e-mail address is michellekwansfan@yahoo.com. Thanks!

-- michellekwansfan

[Kwanfan25]

Im sure that the medal will be beautiful either way. I hope she loves it and knows we'll be rooting for her when she goes back into the skating competitions. I remember when me and my sister went to the champions on ice in our area and my sister gave michelle kwan a stuffed animal. We gave it to the guard after the show. She recieved it :0).

[mkisthebest]

Hi, Michellekwansfan, I have emailed you twice, once the same day and again yesterday, I just wonder if you recieve them?
LISA

[FlashOBlue]

Am I correct in assuming that we are waiting for the NWTM's sample medal to be platinum plated by Artisan before the voting will begin? My total life is in a fog, so maybe I missed something, but it seems a long while since anything has been posted about plans. And what about presentation? There are so many ideas that it seems like it will take weeks of discussions to sort that out. Just wondering.

[probativev]

Flash,

I thought we were waiting for Heather to let us know the final selections of medal designs from which we can vote on. And someone (not sure who) need to make voting categories.

Alexa

[mkisthebest]

Hi, thanks to those of you voting on my poll on the "2 sides v.s. 1 side":

pub1.ezboard.com/fmichellekwanforumletscongratulatemichelle.showMes sage?topicID=133.topic (http://pub1.ezboard.com/fmichellekwanforumletscongratulatemichelle.showMes sage?topicID=133.topic)

we now have an idea that most of us want to see sculpted images on both front and back of the medal.

I am coordinating with MICHELLEKWANFAN to finalize the voting process, and here is my next question:

<!--EZCODE UNDERLINE START--><!--EZCODE BOLD START--> Should we pool all the front and back sides of the submitted designs, all 33 designs together, and select the favorite two for the front and back of the final designs?<!--EZCODE BOLD END--><!--EZCODE UNDERLINE END-->

My thinking behind this is there are so many beautiful front designs and since most of us want to go all out for Michelle, spare no expense, we can put the most favorite / appealing two front designs on the medal to maximize the effect!

For example, we can put a spiral image for the front and a multiple posture or images in the back.

What do you guys think?

Here is the link to medal designs:

heatherw.com/medal/ (http://heatherw.com/medal/)

[mkjsdp]

I think that you should have NWTM check out the designs first and make sure that they can be done before we vote on them, because then we'd have to do it all over again if there are problems. I have a feeling some of the designs, while beautiful, may be too complex to do. Also, since everybody seems determined on platinum plating the medal, how realistic is it to also have a multi-colored/jeweled medal? I'm just trying to be realistic here. If we have NWTM tell us what designs are possible and what aren't now, it'll cut out a few steps down the line.

As to your question, I guess we can do that, as long as we make sure they don't clash. I'm more concerned about the inscriptions, because that's what will tell Michelle how we feel. She can find pictures of herself anywhere, heck she sees it in the mirror everyday ;) Images will make it look pretty, but the words are from our hearts, and that's what this medal is all about. IMHO. :)

[Terri]

I've looked at samples of medals that the NWTM has done on the website and I also received a medal by contacting them. I don't feel that any of our designs are so intricate that they won't be able to do the designs. Some of their medals have been very complex and detailed. Also, whatever design we decide on they will have to fine tune.

[skatingfan5]

that the designs submitted for the medal "are OK as
starting points." Marty Colwell further states "If at all possible, a photo of Michelle will help the medallion look good." I think that he is assuming that we will choose to have a medal that features Michelle's image, rather than a more stylized rendition of one of her signature poses. I'm not sure that this is what the final vote will turn out favoring, but I assured him that it would be no problem providing a photo of Michelle -- there are literally hundreds of them around to use as models.

I also just received my sample coin from NWTM (Marty had been out of town for a week right after I requested one about a month ago and unfortunately my request was buried in the stuff that came in during his absence). But I now have a sample to send to Artisan Plating for the "platinum test". :) Also, from the sample they sent me, I can assure you that Terri is right that we don't have to worry too much about our design having too much detail to be produced well -- the coin they sent me was very detailed. In fact, I think there was too much small detail in the image and a simpler one would have looked less "busy". Of course, this is my own preference, and as I have stated several times before, I like things simple and elegant -- just like my favorite MK costumes (Red Violin, Lyra, SOTBS (Worlds), etc.)

Some of the suggested details in the submitted designs are NOT possible for NWTM -- this would be those who indicated having diamonds or other gemstones imbedded in the medal. I have not seen any $$ estimates provided for these elements, either.

I also agree that one of the most important things for us to decide on is the "motto" or the "inscription" on the medal, because that will hopefully convey to Michelle just what she means to us -- as a skater and as a person. I was one of those who initially did NOT think that having an image of Michelle on the medal was the best idea -- and yet the designs I submitted both featured Michelle -- albeit one in a more abstract or stylized rendering. I still like the idea of incorporating the phoenix symbolism in some way -- either the Chinese characters for this or in a drawing. I thought that mkisthebest's use of stylized letters MKF to depict a phoenix was very clever and Shallah's phoenix was quite beautiful.

As has been said, there are so many great ideas submitted that I think we will be able to come up with a very special medal for Michelle. Some of the designs had very sophisticated renderings while others were more preliminary sketches. I think we should keep in mind that all of these will just be the starting point for the NWTM. We will send them our concept, with some drawings to help illustrate it, and then their designers will send us back their first drawing of the medal. This first design can then be altered more than once, depending on our feedback to NWTM.

Since about 3/4 of those who voted in the one side vs. two-sided medal poll chose having a fully-sculpted image on both sides, I would take this to mean that we can do so -- if that is what we finally decide will be the best design. I still think that the best option may be something simpler -- i.e., the sculpted design on the front with a simpler design or just an inscription on the back. For that reason, I don't think we should automatically just use the "top two vote getters" as the front and back of the medal -- we want them to work well together and not clash. (Two of my very favorite foods are kung pao chicken and spinach lasagne -- but I really wouldn't want to have them at the same meal. :lol )

I know that part of what has been holding up the voting process is the complexity that seems to be involved with so many possible choices. It was suggested that design elements could be combined from several designs -- and I think this could work -- in fact, several of the medal designs submitted incorporated several different design elements. Again, we just need to make sure that they work well together. When I looked over all the medal designs again today, I realized that there were several motifs that were repeated in a number of the designs:
MK or stylized skater in a spiral (9 designs)
MK in split falling leaf (3 designs)
MK in other pose (charlotte, landing, salute) (4 designs)
Phoenix (either bird or characters) (4 designs)
Ice skates (3 designs)
6.0 (either one large or many smaller) (3 designs)

I don't know if it would be possible to vote on design elements by category, but it would certainly simplify the voting. As I said earlier, in speaking with Marty Colwell most recently (twice this week) it seems that any one of the designs submitted would only be the starting point for the final medal, so I think we could submit elements from more than one MKF'er even if they were quite different in rendering style or level of detail. The designers at NWTM are used to working with a variety of source material.

Well, that was a lot longer than I intended, but I hope that this has answered most, if not all, questions about what the NWTM can do.

One last thing I thought of: Has anyone compiled a listing of all the "mottoes" suggested for the medal? Not just those on the medal designs submitted, but from the earlier threads about this project? I think we should be at least thinking about what we want the medal to say, even if we aren't voting on it now. However, what we want to say on the medal could affect the type of design we choose. Oh well, I'd better end this for now before it becomes an entire page of this thread. :)

[Heather]

Please continue talking about the medal on thread #4:
pub1.ezboard.com/fmichell...4070.topic (http://pub1.ezboard.com/fmichellekwanforummkfanchat.showMessage?topicID=14 070.topic)

I'm closing this thread, and will move it to the MK Projects section in a few days.