MK was completely INCREDIBLE at Skate America...the BEST!!!

[Karin]

Did you see her 3toe/3toe...the speed...the height...the distance she covered...the flow...the perfection???...did you see the NO-hand Charlotte...it was really NO touch!!!??? Did you see the jumps...her fall was so cool...she got up so quickly...and she smiled after the falll!!! The music and choreography were superb!!! I luved how MK moved the jumps around!!! The footwork was out-of the world... the spiral!!!...oh my gosh!!!... and her long-held spread eagle!!!...it blew me away...there is just so much in my head right now!!!...have to go watch it again... OK...now that I've calmed down a bit...(back from rewatch) The opening pose was very pleasant!!!...Then she did that 2axel...can it get any more nice???...talk about coverage on the ice!!! My oh my it was magnificent!!! The 3lutz/2toe was so soft!!!...floating on clouds... Regarding the 3/3toe...Frank's reaction was so funny!!!...he was like whoa!!!... The revolutions were so fast!!!...it was like...you blink your eyes and huh???...she's done the combo??? The spin combination after the flip was completely original!!!...It had excellent position...very outstanding!!! And the arm movements on the Kwan-spiral...talk about beautiful!!!... The footwork was extremely strong!!!...it was so intricate...so cleverly choreographed!!! And of course...the end pose was great!!!...Lovely!!!...powerful!!! Isn't it so strange that the music is so exciting...so "weird"...soo spooky...haunting...yet MK makes you so calm in the process!!!...yet...putting you at the edge of your seat!!! It seems like MK has improved a lot on her speed... even with all the "distractions" from school...Mk has significantly gone up the scale!!!...There is no way!!!...in this world can you compare any other skater with Michelle Kwan on a tantamount scale!!! MK is truly magnificent...spectacular...UNBELEIVABLE!!!...how does she do it???...with full time at UCLA!!! Brilliance!!! I'm glad and am very proud of MK... She can now go back to classes at UCLA...knowing that her wise choice of going to school and being a normal kid did not jepoardize her skating career!!!... She is still as fresh as she was at 13!!!... One thing I luved was seeing MK and Sarah talking...they are so friendly to one another... so respecting one another...very nice to see!!!...no bad attitudes... I was also happy that MK kept that outfit!!!...It is very attractive on her!!!...it did a lot for the program!!!...Yeh!!! And to end... "Life is not a triple lutz!!!"

[LaiNe]

It was okay. Almost all her jumps where in the 1st couple of minutes with nothing but plain old stroking around the rink inbetween them. The foot work sequence was pretty and effective but not overly difficult. It was deserving of the win but with the fall on the 3flip and under turned 3loop it was not deserving of the 6.0. I did love the end of the flying camel.

[MKfan]

Karin~ Oh my goodness, you got my heart pounding...now I can't wait to watch...I am sooo excited!! :) What did she fall on and was it like a 98' Worlds fall(double axel, barely fell, but was a fall?). Did they show her short program?? Oh...I CAN'T WAIT!!! Thanks!!

[Abercrombie]

Ofcoarse Michelle was brilliant!!! Her program is so beautiful, I'm so glad she's using The Red Violin for her free skate. And Michelle was so funny during the interview about her college experience. Go Michelle!!!!

[Abercrombie]

Um, Laine you just ruined my really happy feeling that I got inside when Michelle skated. Well its not at all ruined because your not worth it. Anywayz, Despite the fall, Michelle's program was excellent!!! I luved the coreography and the jumps were great! Michelle rulz!!!

[BMWMKFan86]

Michelle was STUNNING. She skated incredibly well. I also loved the little commentary about her and college etc. I also liked Timothy Goebel's reaction after he skated

[Googoo]

What is plain old stroking? MK knocked the socks off the rest of the competition! Didn't you love the KWan spiral at the slight variation in it? (It looked like she lowered her arm before changing to the other edge) I loved the end pose! So sweet. I noticed how everyone else (men included IMO) had such mediocre end poses! I'm so glad she was able to do both the Kwan spiral and the Charlotte in the program. The 3toe/3toe was AWESOME! Hey what was Tim Goebel's reaction after she skated?

[littleone4eva]

3 more hours for me now... can't wait!!! But actually, it's like 5 1/2, cuz I have to go somewhere (I have to time record). I don't want to start anything, but, Laine, why are you always so critical of Michelle??? You don't bash or anything (that's good!!!), but just lay back, appreciate, be optomistic, and enjoy her performances :) You can have your opinion, but I'm not going to try to contridict Karin! I don't think 5.9s/6.0 from ISU judges is an *okay* routine, but oh well. I'm so optomistic about this performance! And we get to see he SP on Wednesday, from The Masters.

[LaiNe]

Abercrombie, Oh, oh you're on to me Abercrombie that was my entire plot, to ruin it for you. But you FOILED it, but you haven't seen the last of me. (In manical sounding voice)HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!

[Gentle]

She was incredible!!! I got so nervous as she was going into her 2 axel. I screamed so loud after she landed the 3/3! I love her spread eagle right after the second Lutz. She looked sooooooo relaxed!!! Just amazing!!! :)

[Abercrombie]

Ha, funny Laine. Sure...

[LaiNe]

littleone, Believe me I loveds watching her I just don't think she desereved the 6.0. Googoo, Well plain old stroking could alo be called croos-overs which made up the inbetween the 1st 4 jump's/or combinations.

[Karin]

Just ENJOY and appreciate the BEAUTY of the in-betweens!!!...It was spell-binidng!!!

[LaiNe]

Abercrombie, Yeah, Im such the comic.

[littleone4eva]

aahh... ok, LaiNe.

[Terri]

Laine, Back to provide "balance" for the board? Guys, It was great. The 2 axel was smoooth. And the 3-3 toe? Easy. The last few jumps seemed a little tentative but I think she was tired rather than unsure. Loved the little in-betweens.

[Gentle]

KARIN, i noticed that you posted this thread at 1:20pm but they didn't show the ladies until close to 2pm. How? oh i watched it ABC from 1-3 :)

[Karin]

OK people...chill out!!!... I am in such a good mood right now... no critisicm will ruin it for me!!! I'm floating on the clouds!!!...LOL... come on!!!... just sit back and be mesmerized!!!... OK...off I go...in a wonderful mood to study for my test tomorrow... if MK can do ALL that... I can go study for my silly 1 test!!!

[LaiNe]

Terri, Yep that's it.

[Karin]

I think the time...according to this board is NOT ET!!!... U R from Canada too right???... it's a different time from this board!!!

[jkovner]

Her jumps were solid with the exception of the triple flip (kinda the loop too, but those landings are easy to save--comparitively), the triple-triple was HUGE with lots of flow. The double axel was great. The flying camel, the second position where she kinda had a hop, it was supposed to be a jumpover, and I look forward to seeing that better. Laine, compare Michelle's program to Soldatava, Sokolova, Hughes, Nikodinov, Nam, Butyrskaya, Lipinski, and even Kwan of past years, and you'll see the abundance of in betweens. In addition, her footwork sequence is very difficult. With the running and the pulls into the fast counterrotational turns follwed by the deep spread eagle-besti squat-spread eagle combination with such speed is VERY, VERY, VERY difficult. The two things I wish had been better were the arm motion going into the Triple Sal and little arm motion in the butterfly-sit spin. Just my nitpicky self showing there.

[kwanette]

I learned from a dear friend of mine not to focus on the occasional weed in a garden, but instead to enjoy the beauty of the many flowers. Michelle's performance today was a beautiful floral arrangement, the fall on the triple flip, but one weed. Pull it out of the bouquet, throw it away, forget about it. My fellow Kwanophiles, you are flowers, too. Occasionally, a weed grows on this forum. Cut this out, throw it away, and forget about it, also. Now to Michelle....I sat here watching it with my friend Pat, I was with her and her husband at Nats. in 98, and she's going with me to see Divas next Sat. We were spell-bound. Her jumps, especially the 3x3t, were wonderful. And those "cross-overs" were subtle nuances that were unreal. Loved her spread-eagle variation in movement and position, the hippity-hop...I don't know what they are called...steps to the light music, the spiral with the change of hand downward, her charlotte...and despite the fall, her finish to the exact note of music...I called my friend Cindy when Pat left and watched it, critiqued it with her, and then just watched it alone."She has my heart." A @#%$ B. quote.

[Googoo]

EXACTLY JKovner! That is a very good suggestion about comparing MK's performance to that of the other skaters! I agree about arm movement into 3 salchow. I have no other suggestions! Maybe a little bit faster at some parts. ANyway this is her first run through. It will only get BETTER!!!!

[susan ba]

ok... i have to say that michelle defintiely didn't deserve that 6.0. no doubt. she fell! but she 5.9 and 5.8 was comletely justified. beautiful and spellbounding. karin, your enthusiam is always infectious. to nit pick on michelle's program for a second: because michelle's loop has gotten soooo good and consistent since 97, i was a little surprised to see her not land it smoothly it in this prpgram...i'm guessing it was from coming off of that flip fall. her 2nd lutze wasn't the smoothest..but that is really nit picking. and i thought some of her spins were not as fast and complete as when she competed at keri lotion. i thought her first circular sequence (partial circular actually) was kind of plain... and i have to agree a little with laine that there wasn't much footwork at the beginning... but laine, you do have a way with making it sound like michelle did nothing. she did three sets of jumps all within the first minute. even though she skates plainly, she has a tension and purposefulness that doesn't make it seem so plain to me...like michel weiss imho that was the best 3t/3t combo i've ever seen michelle do... one of the best i've ever seen anybody do. it had control and abandoment at the same time so that it made it very exciting. does anyone know what i mean? she did the first 3t so quickly that you would have missed it if you blinked...and that second 3t was even higher and might i add, better than some other people's single 3t jump. absolutely amazing. once again, her 3s was so smooth. and i'm so glad that they did a high overhead shot of michelle while she was coming out of her lutze and skating towards her 3t/3t because she completely hauled butt across the ice. she had sooo much speed and energy through out the whole program. michelle's skating is more secure and smoother than ever...if that is possible. and karin, i noticed frank in the background too. i thought that was a great reaction. i especially liked michelle's second circular sequence and the way she ends right on the beat ...twice. i've already watched it four times! and i liked seeing michelle talking to sarah too. it looked sweet. at the end, it looked like michelle was complimenting sarah on her dress or asking her something about it. and didn't michelle look happy during all of the interviews and the program?

[Lara Michele]

And The Red Violin is, I think, deserving of a 6.0 for artistry (at the very least, when it's clean). The only move I disliked was the squat at the end - otherwise, every move was superb. But I wish, I wish, that Michelle would push herself technically beyond the triple/triple combination (which I was very happy to see her land so well!) The flip (left out in the short) wasn't even the last jump, after all. Still, she proved once again that she is hands down the best ladies skater today, and I *cannot* wait to see her in person at Skate Canada! I'm kind of glad she did have the one fall since it means the program can be improved on (but I'm hoping for a clean one next time lol!) Great job Michelle! Lara :-)

[LaiNe]

jkovner, Well the last half was wonderful but the first wasn't.But you got me on the foot work I rewatched that part and saw the difficulty of it.

[Googoo]

Laine that's big of you to admit that! Oh I wasn't wild about the squat either--

[littleone4eva]

Squat.... hhhmmm.... that'll be interesting :) Did they ever show that fluff piece on Michelle's College Embarkment (or something like that), like they said they were going to show?

[Lara Michele]

Loved the double axel with the secure and held landing! I think it's great for Michelle to open with it when she's probably most focused. 6.0, not this time (was the AUT judge backed in a corner?) but I can totally see it being fully deserved in a future clean program by the end of the season. Overall, it was a wonderful program and vintage Michelle - just not one that pushed her much at all IMO. Again, can't wait for the end of this week - just wish I had a preview of her short! Lara :-)

[SJB]

The best-choreographed lp she's ever done, not excluding Lyra.

[muri]

Oh Kwanette, so delicate in your personification, but I'll get down to business MK deserved that 6.0, it was given in the artistic/presentation portion ( for those who overlooked ) and it reflected MK's perfection of deliverance. Her moves were as elongated and poignant as the sounds of the violin itself, and she set the mood of on the edge/ haunting and beautiful. She fully deserved that 6.0 I was so enthralled with her that when the music stopped and she timed it perfectly & turned 180 degrees & poised I jumped in my seat & thought what? what? But it was only MK feeling the music. I loved that the unique spin combo, she should keep that. I loved the charlotte end, and throughout this program her flow with the music were as if she were skating on the violin strings themselves. MK achieved the goal of being one with the music! This was the first time I have seen the RV, I have not seen it in exhibition before & I'm sold, I loved it, completely!

[LaiNe]

On the flying camel, I hope that she holds the camel position for more than 2 revs in the future but the upright positions where wonderful and effective.

[LaiNe]

Gee Kwanette you where almost poetic in the way you called me a troll.

[Shallah]

I can't wait till Skate Canada (to which I am GOING with 5th row SEATS YES YES YES!!!!!) and see MK do this without the altitude to contend with! And with one succesful competition with it under her belt :-) It was a truely wonderful performance esp. considering how BAD so many others were. I read an article that quoted a skater saying how after like 5 days up there he had stabbing pains in his chest :-( But Back to Michelle! I LOVED the control she showed in particular in her spiral with that arm movement while her edge remained rock solid and then the spread eagle into a Besti Squat without a wobble! I am so glad she could fit in the Charlotte with that lovely new position :-) I LOVE how she now blows D!ck Button with her new layback!! hehehe! I have only watched it once and need to again now! I am just dissapointed to not see her short with is reported to have an EXCELLENT double axel in it :-(

[AYS]

For me, this long may be her greatest choreographic effort and artistic stretch yet. Greater than Lyra and probably even Rachmaninoff. The changing moods, fluctuating tempos in the program as a whole, unique, marvelous positions and *changing tempos and moods* within the spin combinations, her ability to evoke mood in the midst of difficult footwork sequences, especially that besti-squat (magnificent!). This is all separate from how fast, strong, and confident her jumps looked compared with last season, even. And is also quite separate from whether she should have gotten a 6.0 or not. Utterly beside the point. JMHO

[susan ba]

Muri and AYS, your descriptions of how michelle skated and how nice the music is is right on. very eloquently (sp?) said. after seeing the exhibition, i really didn't think i would like this music for a LP, but it is great. the music cut was superb. kwannette, you know how much i respect your opinions, but this time, i think you're a little harsh for calling laine a weed. laine didn't say anything that bad. his/her opinion. laine may have dampened other people's enthusiasm a little bit with her initial post but ....

[taf2]

If the ointy-toed slipper fits..... Jkover, you hinted this summer not to fall too much in love with RV from 99 Worlds & you were right. Although I really loved it last year, this year's music cuts are so much better-the mood changes so smoothly & Michelle's presentation was superb. I do have to agree about the 6.0 though-save it for when the program is perfect, as I'm sure we'll see from now on. If Michelle had just left out the flip, I would have given it a 6.0, but the judges aren't supposed to give 6.0 with a fall. After all, we certainly don't want 6.0's to be taken lightly-that would reduce the significance of them. As for Tim, he fell on his opening 3flip, did his 3a/3t with a turn out on the 3a, then 3lutz, 4s/3t, 4t, 4s, then 3 more triples-all gorgeous-his spins were great & I loved his program-it had a nice Lori Nichol's touch. His presentation was so much improved & at the end, he reacted with so much emotion. He covered his face with both hands-I know he was trying to keep from crying & finally was able to stand up & take his bows. He was beaming from ear to ear & so was Carol Heiss. It was such a touching moment. I was thrilled for him.

[taf2]

I meant to say "pointy-toed" not "ointy-toed" & was referring to LaiNe's last post. Shallah, AYS & Susan Ba were all posting at the same time I was.

[Brian]

I absolutly loved the spread eagle/besti squat sequence. I thought it was very inventive, and the besti squat went perfectly with the music. I thought it was very cool.

[SJB]

Like others, I thought the presentation was worth a 6.0. With a fall, I don't know how you'd call it. I agree with arguments on both sides. :) But maybe it's what Michelle indirectly suggested---that the judge missed the fall ("snoozing"--Frank Carroll). At that altitude, you know, it is just so difficult to watch other people exerting themselves, some judges even need oxygen afterwards..... She certainly went down and up quickly enough. And I read somewhere (might have been in Brennan, so don't take it for a certainty) that that's happened before with judges? Perhaps the rest of them had wisely come to the competition early, to acclimate themselves..... Well, an excellent performance, anyway. I hope to see the program ring up solid 6.0's one day, without any falls.

[Karin]

may be the judge didn't see the fall at the time...because he/she was writing down notes as they often do...BUT...there is the REPLAY system don't forget!!!... I'm sure the judge thought MK deserves it!!!...and she does!!!

[Brian]

the judge saw MK fall. It is very unlikely the judge did not see it. IMO, MK deserved the six.

[kwanette]

My friends at school will LOL when they realize that my "gentle poetic" side was considered to be harsh. Last spring I could have lost my job by referring to my boss (using an adjective and noun that only Tanya Harding would have understood) in much harsher terms. I apologize to Laine and to the delicate sensibilities of my fellow Kwanophiles whom I may have offended. In a word, I didn't want to see people getting angry and upset so soon after such a lovely afternoon. At any rate, I loved today...Was Michelle perfect? In her words,"What is perfection?" Pretty darn close, I'd say!

[myBelle]

I have watched the program twice and didn't see the opening pose that she used last year that is pictured in Shallah K.'s post -- she absolutely locked her body in that position and held it for a few seconds. That was my favorite part of the program when she did it as an exhibition. Did I miss something?

[Brian]

I just want to say that a 6.0 in figure skating DOES NOT mean a perfect program. I found this posted on FSW by Lori2. She sums it up perfectly. "No, a 6.0 in ice skating DOES NOT MEAN PERFECTION. A fan may think that's what it means, that is NOT how judges award sixes. It may be the highest possible mark, but a "perfect" mark doesn't mean a "perfect" performance. Absolutely not. Some commentators disseminate that info - wrongly - too. You can say it "should" mean perfection all you want, but unless you have the opportunity to re-write the rulebook yourself, the sport is going to obey the rules usage in the sport. Here's Figure Skating For Dummies by Kristi Yamaguchi: "Whether you're talking about the technical or artistic mark, the marks don't represent a measurement against an absolute standard. A FIGURE SKATER'S PROGRAM MAY HAVE SEVERAL FLAWS, EVEN IF THE JUDGES GIVE IT A 6.0. You often hear that a skater earned a PERFECT 6, but there's really NOTHING PERFECT about a 6 at all." "A 6 is not perfect in the same sense as a gymnast or diver who gets a perfect 10. A gymnast who scores a 10 on a vault, for example, did the maneuver with perfect form -- her hands, feet, arms, and everything else doing just what they were supposed to do at just the right instant." I am not arguing with anyone who thinks a 6 in skating should be the equivalent of a 6 in gymnastics or diving. But there is no grounds to criticize a 6 for Michelle or any other skater if the criticism is that the performance had a flaw or a fall. You can't hold the sport and the judges to a rule that doesn't exist. You may wish it did, but you can't fault them for following your wish rather than the actuality. Bottom line, according to the rules of figure skating judging, a PERFECT SCORE does NOT have to mean that the PERFORMANCE was perfect."

[MarcellaMichelle]

Hello: Here is my humble two cents and all that. What I liked best about the program was that the mood changes were woven throughout the performance, sometimes coming right on top of each other. Not the same old fast sequence (get the judges'/audiences' attention), slow sequence (catch my breath/show versatility), fast sequence (finish strong and with excitement.) I also didn't see the ending coming. It surprised me and I thought that was cool. I always love MK's footwork :-) The beginning jumps were awesome and the ending jumps looked less secure in the landings. I also liked that she looked so happy, relaxed, and confident. I think school is helping in that way.

[Karin]

6.0!!!...We shoudl rename MK...6.0!!!

[KeithB]

I am nearly at a loss for words. So many of you have said it all as well as I could have, if not better. I was so thrilled to read about Michelle's SP yesterday, and then to see her in the LP. With some judicious editing, ABC could have worked the SP in without eliminating anything worthwhile. Keith

[SJB]

Well, you see Karin, my theory is that the judge was too oxygen-deprived to push the replay button....:) Go Michelle!

[Karin]

Hee hee SJB...U are just not too friendly with the judges are you??? Hee hee...

[skatingfan]

Ahh, finally I am able to go online. Not a bad day for me, my most fav skater won S.A., then my second most fav athlete won tour of champion convincingly. After watching f.s. and golf, I was able to watch second half of my most fav football team won a tight game in the 4th quarter. I am in hog's heaven now. I think MK's speed has improved so much. I absolutely love everything about this program, I was breathless. I think Lori is brilliant in editing the music again, instead of letting the program end in a soft passage, she added a more turbulent passage at the end. I think the way MK ends her program is almost Yuka like, saves the difficult footwork at the end. She is so sensual, and sexy, yes, I think she is very sexy, not b/c she vamps all over the ice, I think she is so sexy b/c she has such a quiet and calm confidence. I have not seen her so confident about herself, who she is a college kid and a world class skater, and that tranlates into the skating. So rssifer who watched S.A. live described MK as confident like a lioness? I wrote earlier today on the RV dress thread, before I watch the program, that I thought it may be better for MK to have another costume for the program, I am taking it back, she looks so beautiful in it. Now the following is teasing, and joke... About a fan always providing us a sense of balance, no problem, if s/he can dish it out, and can take it in. I wonder if his/her most fav skater, i.e. my 4th most fav skater has a message board? May we visit and write honest opinion about Black magic woman, and peel me a grape?

[Karin]

Who R U talking about???...I know U R talking about Lulu...but who's the fan??? I'm so dumb...I need more hint!!!

[wonder]

IMHO, she deserves that 6.0. The presentation was near perfect. Yes, the 3t-3t, my goodness, are so crispy. Karin, I guess sf is talking about laine, the one who loves to give us some balance. Hehehe ...

[littleone4eva]

My view on her program: This program is esquisite! (Sorry, can't spell!), but there, of course, can be improvment. WOW! That 3/3 and 2axle were huge!! There could be more variation with arms on spins (and she was slower than usual on spins)... The fall was distracting a little, because her leg was sticking out... some parts didn't flow as well as others... but I still think that her scores were where they should be... MAYBE that 6.0 could be a 5.9... I could see the contriversy, but that 6.0 was deserving. Maybe if there was more footwork or jumps at the end, that may help also, but this is a GREAT program?!? Can't wait to see it totally clean!

[susan ba]

SJB: i think i know what you're talking about with the brenner book. brenner mentioned how one judge had totally missed a skater crashing into the boards because he/she was writing something down and thus didn't mark the skater down... so the judge might have missed the jump. which leads me to... brian: while i still don't know if i agree about givng michelle a 6.0...i totally appreciated your explaination that a 6.0 doesn't mean 'perfection'. it sheds a whole new light for me. well, i can't say i like that squat move, but i agree with you about how it really fits the music perfectly. (the arm movement helped) Jkover: was that you that initally gave us reports from Lake arrowhead about all the new programs? i wanted to remember who did that so i could them (you) again. thanks, i'm glad you told us just enough but not too much. karin: while brian's theory about lack of oxygen for not pressing the replay button is viable (wink wink) :) i think they don't have the replay option until worlds. somebody please correct me if i'm wrong wonder: loved your description of MK's 3t/3t... "krispy"

[skatingfan]

Who is the fan? Who post immediately after your original post. And I am just saying that is a joke.

[Karin]

Got it!!!

[muri]

Kwanette, girlfriend, when I called your personification delicate, I was complimenting you since I would not have thought to say it like that! Also Keith, I agree. As I sat watching the commercials, not to mention sports update (what for), I thought we could have easily seen MK's sp, easily!

[yingshan]

I wasn't too enamoured with the music cut at the World exhibition (too many low passages). I suggested a re-cut for the LP. I'm so happy they did! This HP has pursuasive power or what! :-)Now I absolutely love the music and the choreography. It's definitely a 6.0-worthy program. I liked it much better than Arian. I agree with Brian that the Betsi squad was really cool. It showed originality, good edge and great body control. The 3T-3T was huge! Her second 3T was even higher than her first! It was excellently done. Maybe Michelle can change the combos to 3Z - 3T and 3S - 3T next? I loved the footwork after her 2nd 3Z. It's difficult and different. I don't think her jumps were front-loaded since she did have three of the toughest toward the end: 3F, 3L and 3Z. Her landings on her 3L and 3Z didn't have the flow and speed out as her first couple jumps. It's probably a result of the fall. She became just a bit tentative after that. I also wanted her Y spin combos faster. She's slower than usual here. As I said in the costume thread, I loved her costume on second viewing. The deep wine color suits Michelle and the music. Or maybe it's because of other skaters' terrible costumes. By comparison, Michelle's costume was downright a masterpiece! :-) Oh, skatingfan, I watched the golf too. I'm glad Tiger won because he made playoff absolutely out of question early. :-)

[LaiNe]

skaingfan, Go ahead a post what you think about her Peel Me A Grape and Black Magic Woman. I didn't care for those two programs my self. I'll even try to find a message board about her, I'll point you to it and you can go and knock yourself out.

[Karin]

Chill chill chill Laine!!! otherwise...bp will elevate!!!

[LaiNe]

skatingfan, Go here and have fun. <A HREF=http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Teahouse/2971/GraceOnIce.html >http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Teahouse/2971/GraceOnIce.html </A>

[wonder]

Peace!!! Glad you like Lulu so much.

[François]

that the best Michelle, i never see.....Super...super...super

[littleone4eva]

ITA :) A little OT... I don't know, but all the skaters spins seemed a little slow... I think that could have been because of the altitude... I wonder if Michelle is training at Lake Arrowhead anymore, since Frank is moving... If she still is (wait, her house is at Lake Arrowhead, so she still probably will), it will help her adjust. That squat thing wasn't too bad... it was with the music... but Mano, on FSW suggested a falling leaf and ina bauer in there. I think that's a good idea...

[Joshua]

I liked the besti-squat. I thought it fit perfectly how she slid down--fitting perfectly with the sliding of the trombone--and it was a different move than Michelle is used to doing. I loved this program a lot of interesting moves. I wasn't bothered by the front end loading of the jumps because it was a nice change, she added nice, new in-betweens, and it's got the same amount of movements as her other programs only the rest come in during the 2nd half....which is also great because it makes the program more difficult.

[skatingfan]

Joking and teasing Laine, since you are so unbias, and so knowledgeable, maybe you should write why you like or dislike your most fav skaters programs there first. As for me, I may visit that site someday. Too busy watching and rewatching our angel's TRV for the next 2 days. Then of course on Weds have to watch masters, then come on board and gush and gush all over Michelle. Coming weekend master Tiger's tournament at Balderama Spain will be on tv. Since Lulu is only my 4th most fav female skater, I need to prioritize.

[ChicaRealidad]

Everyone else seems to have said it all already. I just have one comment re: the 6.0 being deserved or undeserved. Compared to the other skaters...and aren't the judges supposed to place a skater in relationship to the other performances?...Kwan deserved a 6.0. As Button pointed out...her choreography flowed from one move to the next, her arm movements were minimal and made sense within the context of not only the choreography, but the music she was interpreting (not just "skating to"). When Sokolova and Soldatova were skating I wanted to tie their arms behind them so they'd stop flailing them about. For all the sense their arm movements made choreographically they could've been flagging down a cab. So in perspective to the other skaters...Kwan deserved a 10.0.

[CaptCanada]

Well I hate Besti squats but this one was RIGHT ON with the phrasing and very effective IMO. In fact, practically every little move in this program is extraordinarily effective, and this program will probably rival the Taj Mahal for my most favourite MK program ever. Incredibly cohesive, complete, detailed, encompassing, yet subtle. Very very Michelle, I can't really think of anyone else who could pull something like this off. I thought her speed looked better and she was fleet, secure, and confident throughout. Laine, I think you are way off in your assessment of this program, and I happen to know through private e-mail that some very knowledgeable long time fs fans including those who DO NOT LIKE Kwan and who attended skate america IN PERSON were blown away by this program and predicted a passel of 6.0s at Nationals if she lands everything. You write: It was okay. Almost all her jumps where in the 1st couple of minutes with nothing but plain old stroking around the rink inbetween them. The foot work sequence was pretty and effective but not overly difficult. It was deserving of the win but with the fall on the 3flip and under turned 3loop it was not deserving of the 6.0. I did love the end of the flying camel. Her jumps were in the first couple of minutes. Um, a couple of minutes is already half the program. And when you can do a triple-triple...that's two off right away, plus the lutz. The other jumps were well spaced throughout. All the jumps at the beginning? You're talking Tim Goebel. And the second lutz was very near the end. The loop did not have a great flow on the landing, but definitely didn't look cheated. And I have to disagree that Michelle did a lot of stroking around at the beginning. Like puhleaze...that big beautiful double axel came out of nowehere. She did less stroking than other skaters setting up for jumps...take a look at Elena Sokolova and Stojko if you want to talk empty stroking. She also changed the footwork into the flip making the sequence longer and harder and the second footwork sequence was very fast, intricate and difficult. Not to mention the improved layback and many other special Kwan touches like the jerky angular hopping spin, the no hands charlotte, the arm variation on the change edge spiral, and that gorgeous footwork sequence. And you wanna bring up revs on a camel spin...LOL, Lulu did what, 3 revs in camel position in her 96 worlds LP? And you still think she should have won despite consistently poor spinning throughout her entire program...a total of 4 spins that were completely sub par in the LP, plus less jumps than Michelle. You make me PML when you can't appreciate this basic fact yet come here talking about balance. You're certainly entitled to your opinion and constructive criticism of Michelle. None of what you posted was even *valid* criticism, let alone constructive. If that program was "just okay" for you, I don't know how you can force yourself to watch the rest of the ladies skaters muddle their way through.

[CaptCanada]

...read what Lori2, who made the effort to read the rule book, has to say.

[Rene]

Well said CaptCanada. I don't think I've ever liked the Besti(sp) squat before. I thought it was great in this program. It didn't look awkward or obscene like some others I've seen. ITA about this being my favorite program, rivaling Taj Mahal. I loved everything about it. One thing that I was WAITING for was the exit from the Charlotte like at Keri. Boo Hoo I thought she was going to do it for sure. I can't wait to see it done perfectly. I ADORE this program!

[GinnySmith]

And, thank you, Tiger, for making the airing of the entire program possible. You have my eternal devotion. I'm even starting to like golf again!! By the way, I loved the program and am going back for my 10 viewing.....bye!!!!

[Joshua]

Oh yeah, Rene, I felt the same way about the Charlotte exit. The exit from Keri would have fit better, IMO. One thing about the beginning, Michelle starts off with her pose then does that arabesque position, a least I think that's what it's called (sort of pic from one of our poster's banners), into another move. I think she should have kept the move that comes right after the arabesque position in the TRV exhibition, a sort of step turn. I wasn't bothered by the beginning except some of the moves were performed a little too fast, but again I'm nitpicking. And she kept the "haunting voice".....YAY!

[kwanette]

I didn't mean you...I am just trying to focus on the positive in life...my stress level at work is over-the-top and I have alot going on at home. I was trying to avoid an argument, that's all. Thank-you for your compliment.I am still basking in the kwan-glow...I have watched it 4 times, and each time I find little subtle moves that I didn't notice previously.

[Lara Michele]

I didn't put anyone off with my comments. I guess I got too excited after all the reports of Michelle practicing more triple/triple combinations, and there's been so little increase in technical difficulty in singles the past two seasons. Yeah, Goebel should have been enough, but Button wasn't nearly excited enough LOL. I'll sure miss Barb Underhill's enthusiasm on this broadcast! :-) Anyway, once Skate Canada cones I know I'll end up hoping for a clean program, even if that means a triple toe LOL. btw, I still don't care for the Betsi squat but on second viewing I could really see how great it went with the music. It just caught me off guard the first time I saw it! Lara :-)

[lavender]

I loved michelle's program and I can't describe it the way everyone has. I just want to say that the judges know that the program was excellent because for one the RV is a very hard piece to put together and no one can do it better than michelle and lori. Can you imagine what the other judges would have given her if she didn't fall on the flip. I hope that she skates it without falls at skate canada, nationals and of course worlds. Then we would see how the judges view this piece with no flaws. I think that most of the competitors looked a little tired or slower than usual. It was probably hard to skate in that altitude plus this is the beginning of the season and it seems like every year everyone is kind of tired in the very beginning. It's going to be interesting when everyone peaks later in the season

[TLynn]

What a wonderful, beautifully executed program. I loved so many things, especially the triple-triple, double axle, and the footwork near the end. The Besti squat worked perfectly with the music. And she skated with so much boldness, maturity, and attention to detail. All this in a debut performance, at high altitude, and as a new college student. I expect that she will work out the few quirks and continue to dazzle us throughout the season. This girl continues to amaze me. I am a college professor, and I constantly see how difficult it is for many students to get organized and adapt to the new freedoms of college life. Some adjust well, others take a semester or two (or more) to get their acts together, some never do. Michelle looks to be handling the adjustment very well, and I admire and respect her goal to be "normal" for a while. Selfishly, I would like to see her participate in and win every possible event for years to come, and college life could make the continuation of her stellar record difficult. Being realistic, though, this IS Michelle Kwan--she will try this college thing out, weigh the pros and cons as she goes, and make the appropriate decisions. Adding a new dimension to her life also could help take off a little of the pressure she has been under for so long, and actually help her skating in the long run. I am very excited about the possibilities--she is one of the very few skaters who have continued to turn out superior quality, varied, and improved performances year after year. Looks like it will be a great season for Kwan fans!

[littlepebbles1]

Well, since according to one of the USFSA pages, Michelle is Russian, I guess she got Russian scores. You know, fall 2 or 3 times and get 5.8s and 5.9s. hee hee hee... Ok, let me stop. Seriously, I admit that I was worried about how Michelle would do with both college and skating and I was encouraged by how Michelle skated. I know that she is not out of the woods quite yet, but I still feel a little better. I think she only has Skate Canada next week? and then she is pretty much free until Nationals, except for a USFSA pro-am. I really liked this new Red Violin. I do miss some things that were in the exhibition version, such as reverse camel, almost fig 8 Kwan spiral, etc. But I think this version is a little more powerful. By the end I was so engrossed in the program that I didn't even notice the final 3lutz. I vaguely heard Peggy Fleming mention it and then I started looking for it. LOL If only they had shown the SP. Looking forward to Skate Canada now!

[littlepebbles1]

When I read in a practice report that Michelle was doing a besti squat in her program, the first thing I thought was eeeewww. But it seemed to go with the program for me and I didn't mind it. Maybe I'm biased cause it's Michelle, but don't I have that right? :oŞ If I ever decide to become a skating judge, I'll be sure to go to Biased Anonymous.

[SJB]

Having learned what the rules are (thanks, Brian, and also Lori2) and considered Michelle's presentation in relation to that of the other skaters, I think MK really deserved that 6.0, even more than one, in fact. My new theory is that the judges were not oxygen-deprived, but just dizzy with joy and excitement caused by viewing Michelle's stellar perfomance.

[april]

I love this Red Violin program! Yeah, I think the first minute is filled with jumps (2axel, 3lutz/2toe, 3toe/3toe) but wow, what beautiful jumps they were! The second half of the program is my favorite . . . footwork sequences, spin variations in tune with the mood changes! Plus the jumps in the second part of the program: 3flip, 3loop, 3lutz . . . she's really upping the difficulty of her program. Besti squat . . . at first I wasn't crazy about it but after watching it again, I love how it is placed perfectly with the music. Very effective! Her layback is gorgeous plus she did a change-edge spiral variation in the lp! The only thing I missed from the RV Worlds Exhibition is her ending pose which I loved! Jumps . . . her last 3 jumps weren't as solid as her opening jumps. Did anyone think the height in MK's first 3lutz? It was huge and also good speed coming out of it . . . makes me wanna see a 3lutz/3toe or 3lutz/3loop! Double axel was WOW! So secure and it looked so easy with great speed coming out of it again! No need to mention 3toe/3toe as D!ck said it all. Yeah, her spins didn't look as fast compared to Keri's but it's prob. due to altitude and maybe MK was trying to conserve energy. I probably still would not give her a 6.0. I did notice that the same judge gave her a 5.8 for technical marks. I have no problem though that the judge gave her a 6.0 since MK's presentation was brilliant. BTW, I loved what she said "life is not a triple lutz". It was so funny . . . I was laughing along with D!ck, Peggy, and Terry.

[LaiNe]

Capt, Gee captain I was just making a suggestion on her camel spin, I really don't see how that was bad or anything and what does 96 world's have to do with this?

[Karin]

Guys...stop shewing at each others' throats!!!

[calculusfan]

I agree with all the positive comments made and won't repeat them. I taped the show and the first thing I did was to watch Michelle. Wow. Then I went back and watched the others. My most common thought was "Why are their programs so long while Michelle's ends too fast." I personally liked the Besti squat. She had good posture in it. PS Where did the name besti come from?

[annabelle]

wow....and i mean that in every sense of the word.... its a totally different michelle and i think everyone loves the program. just look at the reaction of the audience at the end, and @#%$ button and peggy could not stop talking about it. im way excited about this program..... i can't wait to see it at skate canada when she's out of that horrid altitude. i really think that the altitude really took a toll on all the skaters.... sarah didn't look the same, angela didn't look the same, overall i don't think any lady didn't fall at least once. a couple more runs through the program and by nationals we're gonna see 6.0's across the board again! i think the betsy squat or whatever it is called is cute, something new something different. we wished for a different side of our dear michelle and we got it!

[jkovner]

Susan Ba, I was the one who wrote the reports from Lake Arrowhead. Oh! One more thing! At Arrowhead, I saw do a Charlotte into a double Axel at the end of her program when she did the triple-triple---so we'll see.

[Karin]

Oh...I hope we see it perfectly!!!...Go MK!!!...

[Terri]

Besti squat is named after the 1988 Olympic ice dance champions Bestiaminova and Bukin.

[LaiNe]

I hope she adds the Charlotte into the double axel I really hope she starts putting in 2 double axels in her programs like in the 95-96 season. I think that would be an easy way to up the difficulty of her program.

[CaptCanada]

You know exactly what I'm referring to. You think you're the the voice of reason and balance and to play this role you make fallacious statements so you can criticize a credible effort and well put together program. The flip, loop, and lutz were all in the last half of the prgram (and these are the hardest triples), yet you complain about too many jumps in the first two minutes. Well, by my count there were 7 jumps and if 3 are in the latter half, what's wrong with that? Then you say the footwork was not hard...did you even watch it? It was the hardest fw in the women's competition and quite difficult. Your past postings that I am quite familiar with are indicative of your level of understanding of the judging criteria and your own fairness in appraising the relative strengths and weaknesses of skaters. I would not have brought it up, but when you come here touting yourself as the "voice of reason", you begged for it. You are no more the voice of reason than any of us here. You just like to take Kwan down a notch whenever possible...too bad for you, this program is the real thing and that good. The fact that you were not willing to recognize it until others called your bluff says volumes about your so called objectivity.

[Karin]

(LOL...Karin...everything's about U!!! LOL...) I wanna see a 3axel!!!... I luved how at the end of Salome...originally...(not at worlds)...it was a scheduled 2axel!!! 3axel!!! Go MK!!!

[LaiNe]

Captain, Go read my last several post's I said I rewatched it and saw the difficulty of it. Maybe you should read all of the post's before you go attacking people.

[Karin]

Calm down...go watch Lyra Angelica!!! NOW!!!...

[LaiNe]

Captain, To make it easier for you so you don't have to search through all these pages my post was the 5th one on the second page.

[LaiNe]

One more thing captain, Truce, okay? We obviously don't agree I don't like the 1st half you like it all. Chances are we'll continue to nag at each other about it and frankly Im tired of it so let's make peace.

[LaiNe]

Karin, I tooky your advice and I also watched LuLu's Rach Concerto #2,Butterfly Lovers,The Last Emperor, and Michelle's Rach. I feel much better now.

[LaiNe]

Forget about reading my last post about me realizing it was difficult, you already read it and took it the wrong way.