Can someone explain to me why Sasha, Jennifer, and NNN...

[Christy8]

are performing the Charlotte? Is this going to be some kind of millenium move in skating now? I mean, I kind of liked the idea of MK reviving it, but now it doesn't seem as "special" as it was when MK performed it in Ariane and the Red Violin... *Sigh* I feel like the imitation has "cheapened" it somehow... Will all of MK's ideas for choreography be imitated? What happened to originality? And yes, I know that MK was not the first to do the move or the first to revive it, however I guess no matter how much I looked up to MK as a skater/performer, I would want MY programs to have MY stamp on it... Anyone agree? I am sorry if this topic has been discussed before, I have been away. --ct

[Karin]

I was sorta wondering that too... Well...I didn't know if Sasha was actually doing it...I just saw a pic of it!!! Who is Jennifer??? I didn't know Naomi was doing it too!!! I guess it can now be called the Charlotte American team??? No, U R sortaa right...it's not as "special" anymore... but it's nice to see MK bring it back to life...as Button said "how nice to see it sort of speak...descend to Michelle Kwan" (something like that)...And then to see others doing it too!!!

[skatingfan]

I believe that must be Jennifer Kirk? NNN is doing a forward charlotte, so that is a little different. I have never seen it, there are somewhat mix review, b/c she can not do a full split, and someone said it looks like a regular forward spiral, and Nicole can hold her free leg higher for that matter of fact. Sasha has been doing that for a while, I mean prior to Michelle's unveiling her current version of it in world pro 98. MK did a charlotte in Green Sleeves, when she was 14 Jennifer, no idea she is doing a charlotte. What I really want to see MK do is to add more difficulty to the Kwan spiral. How about change edge one more time from inside to outside then inside again. I it possible?

[Karin]

Skatingfan...My friend once suggested a backwards Kwan spiral!!! Inside out inside sounds cool too!!!

[Karin]

Skatingfan...My friend once suggested a backwards Kwan spiral!!! Inside-out-inside sounds cool too!!!

[CaptCanada]

Recent reports on RSSIF from Golden West, a local competition in California (?) show Kwan's influence in a major way. Various reporters have commented on increased emphasis on connecting moves, many skaters using classical music (including some pieces that were not in heavy use and couldn't be easily identified), and tasteful understated costuming (not many sequins, baubles, beads, etc.). Personally, I like this kind of style and I'm thrilled to hear it and can't wait to see some of these younger skaters strut their stuff on TV. If Michelle is bringing an increased interest to coherent, artistic, well choreographed programs that are more than just jumps...I say great! I was the one who commented on NNN's charlotte. I saw it live. The leg is not a perfect split, but then it would be very hard to achieve one going forward. It certainly looks very difficult...but not the most aesthetically pleasing move. Rather like the Biellman spin. I have seen Sasha Cohen's in pictures and she achieves a better position in her Charlotte...can't tell if she's going forward or backward though. I don't think it cheapens the move...I mean how many men do triple axels? You see it all the time. Some are great, and some are ugly, but when you see a nice one, it's wonderful. Same for any other move. I think Sasha's position looks even better than Michelle's, but I don't know how long she holds it or how fast she's moving. The internet skating community in general seems quite hostile towards Kwan. However the skaters are voting with their programs... and that is the ultimate compliment.

[CaptCanada]

Naomi's programs certainly bear her own stamp. She may use some of the same moves and poses, but she is definitely her own skater with her own unique presence on the ice. Her style and personality out there is nothing like Michelle...even though she skates to some of the same music.

[Karin]

Of course Naomi's style is different from Michelle. I don't think anyone can match MK's style and elegance... I am actually quite excited to see some many people do the Charlotte this season... Imagine a guy doing it...

[Jenny]

Just FYI, Sasha did a (very impressive!) charlotte in her SP at Nationals last year, and it was backwards like Michelle's. Here is a photo: <a href=http://www.mscnet.com/jenny/mk/events/99/nationals/dig-cohen03-sp.JPG>Sasha Cohen</a>

[Icare]

know the answer, would you please tell us why the internet skating community was hostile to MK. Thank you.

[yingshan]

What internet skating community were you referring to? I don't frequent anywhere else except rssif and there is a big group of Kwan admirers in rssif who will rebut any criticism aiming at Kwan. Of course, being a diversed internet newsgroup, rssif does have several Kwan critics or bashers. But they by no means form the majority opinion. Kwan admirers (not necessary fans) there definitely outnumber her critics in rssif. I don't know where you got the impression that "internet skating community" is "hostile" to Michelle.

[NannyMa777]

FSW seems to be hostile towards Michelle, IMO. I only visit there every once in a while anymore, because I just feel that the atmosphere is not very complimentary towards Michelle. While I've never visited FSU, I've heard that this place can be brutal towards Michelle, as can the CBS boards, although again, I've not visited there either. :o)

[ILLINOIS]

What's up with you guys!!! Ya all should be happy that every little girl wants to be like Michelle!!! That just makes Michelle the more 'true' champion. It's stupid how they gave Tara the 'gold' but nobody wants to skate the way she does!!!! Dont get me wrong, I like Tara and both Michelle. If you look at skating history, Michelle should have gotten an award for revolutionizing ice skating.

[ILLINOIS]

I love NAOMI!!! She sparkles in the ice and brings out another type of beauty.... I LOVE her spins...!!! I love Michelle!!! She can move to the sound of a note!!!!

[buster]

absolutely! michelle has been and continues to be an amazing representative not only of the skating world, but of a wonderful, down-to-earth person with terrific qualities.

[CaptCanada]

ok, I guess I should clarify. I meant FSW. I wasn't thinking of Usenet or skatefans. Read the recent outcast thread at FSW, and you will see there are many people who have hostile feelings towards her. I can't think why people like to tear her down, really. I have an e-mail friend and tape trade buddy who was on FSW since it's inception but no longer posts there because of all the hostility towards her. people criticize her for things that they tolerate quite well in other skaters. They go on and on about how her programs are all the same, not versatile, overrated. Well, the nasty truth of it all is that most competitive eligible skaters are not very versatile...but no one else gets nearly as much flack for it. It's a competition for chrissake...you want to do what you know will win. It's no time to take risks, and few skaters do. How else can you explain doing the same SP for three season (Bobek), or the same LP for three seasons (Nikodinov), or two seasons (Butyrskaya, Malinina). I'm just glad that Michelle gives three new programs (sometimes more) every season. Basically, everyone predicts doom and gloom for MK...she's over the hill, the litle ones are going to leave her in the dust, blahblahblah. Yeesh. Ya don't figure she's got it in her to improve? many people would like nothing better than to see her lose all her titles and not make the 2002 olympic team. Personally, I'm rooting for her to make the team, win the gold, retire, finish college, fall in love, get married and live happily ever after. my $.02

[MarcellaMichelle]

Bravo, CaptCanada. I couldn't have said it better myself!

[Deetlebug]

Imitation IS the sincerest form of flattery. So for all those who are bristling at the idea that the "specialness" of Michelle's Charlotte (or any of the moves she does) will disappear because so many young ones are doing the same thing, I say RELAX AND ENJOY! Michelle is having a definate impact on ladies figure skating (as predicted by many figure skating pundits over the past few years, inlcuding Mr. Button, Peggy, Carol Heiss Jenkins, etc.). And if you're still worried about it just keep this in mind. Tara may go down in the history books as the youngest World and Olympic champion and as the first lady to do a 3loop/3loop in competition, but how many of us remember other skaters who are known for their "firsts" in history? I know I frequently have to be reminded of many interesting "firsts". As such, I don't think that Tara's accomplishments - as remarkable as they are - will be quite so easy to remember as Michelle's obvious influence on ladies figure skating. If the up and coming young ladies are leaning towards a greater emphasis on creative use of music and accentuating the connecting moves that is a trend that we will see continue to grow and florish over the years. Even years after Michelle retires. That my friends is definately I~M~P~A~C~T !!!! 8-)

[lavender]

I'm with captcanada. I feel the same way about fsw(some of them) are against michelle. The thing is that the board was mostly a supporter of michelle when it began.... I don't get it either. I think that most of the skaters do the same type of programs and michelle does one of the most difficult, detailed routines of them all but they are tired of her programs. please.....I bet those same people want the see michelle's programs every year. They may not cheer for her but they want to see her. Also, they do predict that history will repeat itself. They think that someone like tara will win the gold over michelle. Some even think she might not even make the podium. I just need to stay away from there.

[winter]

Welcome back CaptCanada. It is nice to hear from you again. I just want to let you know that your detail input is always appreciated by your fellow kwan fan here.

[Rene]

I have been going to FSW lately because this board is nice and quick one day and the next 3 days SLOW SLOW SLOW, it drives me crazy. Anyway, it's true what CaptCanada says. One person says they're sick of all the Elvis bashing AND Michelle doing the same moves all the time. I got soooo mad with all the hostility I tried to come back here. But really when you think about it's really very funny. It's such a ridiculous commment that it doesn't make sense. BTW as petty as it is(and I do know that it is petty) I don't like people copying Michelle when it is so obvious, but it is flattery after all. So I'll just have to get over it.

[mano]

All the previous "I'm an outcast" threads (there've been many and all go over 100 posts) on FSW pretty much is a free for all to put down Michelle. Sheesh, I have to go to choir now, but I'll add more later.

[littleone4eva]

Check out what one person posted... if this isn't proof that the thread isn't aimed at bashing, I don't know what else can convince someone (Do not read below if you don't want to read the post): i just could NOT resist this...im an outcast because... I am SICK of Michelle..someone needs to dethrone that little perfection goddess and make her realize she is NOT all that. I think that an out of medals finish at worlds would be just fantastic. It could make her deliver the technical difficulty that we know she is capable of. Lucinda Ruh PLEASE get your jumps and become a world champion!!!! Is that bashing on Michelle or what! Some people also say Michelle is "SOOO BORING" or her programs "Emotionally flat". This happens to other skaters of FSW also, not just Michelle. It just makes me sick.. I'm sorry, but it does. But, every DOES have their own opinions, so we should let them bother us...

[Willowdale]

Where is the thread posted? At FSW?? I'm SURE it is CONSIDERED bashing and I find those who bash Michelle are losers. I mean, Michelle is the one who has made figure skating exciting and beautiful. Michelle's jumps are beautiful, huge and correct and her ARTISTRY is superb. I don't see a point why people think Michelle is boring... That makes me really sad.

[Karin]

If he insists that MK is a "little perfection goddess"...I'd say what an idiot for ending sentence with letting her know she's not all that!!! What a ridiculous person!!! Hahaha Just laugh!!!

[Teddy99]

That's exactly why I've never posted on FSW nor will I. I read there pretty regularly, they have the best spoilers:) but the way they put Michelle down is so sad. No, everyone doesn't have to like but they way they tear her down is wrong. Constructive criticism is fine, what they're do over there viscious and for what reason?!! Because Michelle is a wonderful example for young ladies (esp. athletes) to follow. She's skating and going to college. Like others have said, Michelle has come out w/new competition programs EVERY SEASON SINCE 1993!! It's ridiculous how they rip Michelle apart, especially when other skaters (lots of them) are using the same programs 2 and 3 yrs. later, using the same old moves, I don't need to name names or point finger we know who they are...and you say Michelle lacks originality, and boring? PUUULLLEASE!! Look at what Michelle has done since she's been a Senior Ladies skater. There's no need to mention all that she's accomplished, we all know, whether you want to give her credit for it not. She has changed figure skating...look at the up and comers who are they trying to be like? let say it all together...Michelle. She's the one who started it all for the younger skaters! Now our ANGEL is going to college, and I say good for her! So everyone is making a big deal about her not being able to handle school and skating, why can't she handle it? she's not the first figure skater (or any other athlete for that matter), to go to college and compete competitively and succeed nor will she be the last. Michelle is a very smart, bright beautiful young lady and she is well aware of what she has to do, be it her education or skating, she is in control of her life and I say YOU GO GIRL!!! And all this crap about Michelle is washed up, losing her competitive edge, getting old, and she needs to beware of the young up and comers, Why is it that the rules only apply if you're name is Michelle Kwan? Why Michelle is considered "old" and Angela N isn't? neither is Nicole, heaven forbid we call Maria old, and Tatayana M. I mean let's be real here, the only reason people trip on Michelle the way they do is becasue they're JEALOUS (yea, I said it! :)) because even though she won the Silver medal in the Olympics, she's one of the most popular, well loved skaters in the world, she's a positive role modle, she is beautiful, and she's the #1 skater of the decade...Blades on Ice tells us that...enough said! hee-hee:)

[Teddy99]

Whew, I feel better, thank you for letting me vent.

[Googoo]

I would have prefered if they didn't do the Charlotte (well at least not all of them). It's good that Naomi's is forward though for something a little different. To me it is LUDICROUS to say that MK is un-original. In my eyes she is THE MOST original skater. Just look at Taj Mahal and Lyra and then Ariane! Do you see any major similarities between them? Uh no! Is the choroeography not amazing and intricate and beautiful? Yeeea! When they say stuff like that I just think-- like WHO? Who is the original, care-free, spontaneous skater that they are talking about who is better than Michelle? For FSW's credit I do have to say that the post on can MK handle college was generally in her favor. Anyway don't let the silliness on the net get you down guys! In reality Michelle is VERY loved by skating fans!!

[Shallah]

Heaven protect us FS fans from skaters aiming for perfection. Protect us from consistant jumpers who rarely fall or have a rough landing and who stun us when they DO fall. Protect us skaters who land there jumps as well at the beginning of the season as at the end. Protect us from skaters with new programs every season with intricate choreography that blends wonderfuly with the music. Protect us from skaters who are good at all aspects of skating not just the jumps. Protect us from skaters who use unusal music and who can skate with the music, not just TO the music. Protect us from skaters who never say anything bad against competitors or judges. Protect us from skaters who can create fans out of people who normally aren't FS fans as well as those who Are or WERE skaters. Protects us from skaters who the worst things you can say about them is that they are "too consistant" "he/she isn't interesting cuz he/she never falls" and "There is no excitement because she/he is above all the rest". Protect us from skaters who help raise the standards of skating by showing that Yes you CAN be both a jumper and an artist!! Protect us from those who make us forget just how technically good they are by their wonderful presentation & artistry. Protect us from a skater than can make it rain teddy bears and showed you don't have to have the gold to be a champion. Yes, someone please protect us.

[dreamr]

I don't really mind them doing the move. I mean its like the Bielman spin. Yes Denise Bielman popularized the move but others do it too. A move is not someone's property but for everyone to use. If someone wants to use it so be it. I think it is kind of cool that Michelle can influence the sport of skating to the point of people doing what she does. As for the "bashing" going on in FSW, I think that for the most part people do like Michelle. But when you are a famous person, people are bound to critizize you. Its just part of the sport unfortunatly and all you can do is just listen. If I know its not true then why waste my breath arguing with someone who is completely ignornant.

[Sandy]

I had also been to fsw, but i rarely frequented there anymore. it sickens me how anyone can tear down mk just for being a well-rounded, well-liked and beautiful skater who happens to win almost every competitions that she enters. I think the problems come down to jealousy--most people are sick of seeing michelle win all the time (except me) especially when she beats their favorite skaters, so they would complain about her "supposedly" similar programs and moves!! I mean, who doesn't do the same arm movements and have the same styles--at least mk skating is not forced and seems natural and liberating to watch! anyway, all i have to say is that mk will always have those who dislike her as long as she keeps winning. but hopefully, she will gain more true and honest fans not those ignorant ones coz mk doesn't need their support. Sandy

[Sandy]

btw, i just wanted to add that it's really sad that some people cannot appreciate the beauty of mk's skating. *sigh*............ way to go captcanada and teddybear!! you two are examples of true-hearted fans of Michelle that i was referring to! :) SAndy

[Karin]

It's a little sad...but not really...that others R doing the Charlotte too... I mean...MK was known for bringing it back...but probably only in the US... At least here in Canada...no one even mentioned it!!!...so I guess now tha so many R doing it...it'll be a popular move...but not THAT sprcial anymore... And Sandy...pity on those people...it's their loss...

[Googoo]

ITA with you Shallah!!!!! I especially liked the part about you forget how great she is technically because of her outstanding artistry. I noticed that in FSW threads about who will land the 3 axel and who has best jumps, MK wasn't even mentioned (at least not in the axel thread). Actually she is the best jumper out there right now in the eligible world.

[Karin]

Googoo... U know...it's probably because MK makes her moves so easy that people don't pay attention to her jumps!!! People like to see the fustration and effort into jumps....to seem like the skater is good. But MK makes them look so effortless...people always forget hos great of a jumper she is!!! About the 3axel...hope she'll debut it soon...that'll shut them all up!!!

[Deetlebug]

teddy99 - I couldn't agree with you more! RIGHT ON!!! Shallah - I humbly bow to you with the powerful verbage!! The pen is truly mightier than the sword and you my friend have a VERY MIGHTY pen!! 8-) Karin - I agree about the jumps. It's probably one aspect of Michelle's ability to so completely harmonize the technical and artistic aspects of skating that ends up hurting her at times. As our favorite Uncle D i c k i e says, "Michelle doesn't give you the impression that's she's showing you she can DO the technical stuff, she just uses the technical stuff to tell the story." , (or something like that). Anyway, my point is that Michelle's jumps look so effortless that it doesn't even really look like she's jumping. I happen to love her jumping technique, but I think that alot of people overlook how difficult it is to make a triple jump look effortless.

[Karin]

aha...deetlebug!!!

[Marco]

Well, to me, Michelle's technical ability is as great as her artistry but then when I watch her skate, I just couldnt help but concentrate on her expressions instead of her jumps...dun know why About younger skaters doing the Charlotte, I think we cant really say that they copied Michelle. Coz she didnt invent the Charlotte, right? I am happy as long as Michelle performs those elements beautifully. Afterall, it's not the first one to do certain moves, but who does it the best that counts and Michelle certainly is in for it.

[yingshan]

I was one of the posters in rssif who reported the Kwan influence at Golden West and I also said I couldn't be happier. As a fan who loves artistry, I couldn't be happier seeing young skaters pay attention to lines, positions, in-between moves, music selection, simple costume...etc. I don't have any problem seeing young skaters copy Michelle's moves. I would be tuned off if all young skaters strive for being the next Tara. One junior skater at Golden West did a good Charlotte in that she achieved the position I've been hoping Michelle would achieve, with upper torso completely folding close to the gliding leg. Michelle's line was a 80 degree instead of a 90 degree to the ice. That junior skater achieve a 90 degree to the ice, or as close as it could be. She won huge applause on that one. But she only held it for 1/3 of the rink length. That's one thing about these young skaters. They can mimic some of the moves, Beillmann spins, donut spins, Charlotte spirals or change-edge spirals, but they usually did them with very little speed or couldn't hold it as long. That affects the impact of the move. As for FSW, I don't go there for a reason. the posters there are less diversed, comparing with rssif, and some of them are very ignorant. (shrug) Not everyone has taste (don't I know that :-)) or knowledge of figure skating.

[Karin]

to paraphrase Button... MK's technique doesn't control her like it does to tl!!! That's why all the young skaters get the attention on jumps!!!...it shows in their faces... But MK is so peaceful!!!

[bearpaw]

Last week was one of the first weeks I had ever been to the FSW board and some of the threads I enjoyed - especially the spoilers that talked about moves, costumes and music choice. I also enjoyed the articles people post about skaters other then MK. On the other hand, I read the outcasts thread like many of you here and immediately came and asked for positive MK vibes! Sigh. Thank you for this thread - it made me feel better to know that I am not alone!

[Teddy99]

Bearpaw, you're not alone! Now admit it MKfans, don't you feel better after you've let it all out? I know I do:-) Shallah! (humbly bowing my head) may I kiss your ring?! :-)

[littlepebbles1]

When Phil Hersh's article came out and had that statement about Michelle negotiating her USFSA contract, lots of people called her greedy, among other things and criticized some posters for giving her the benefit of the doubt. If I remember correctly, the thread stretched to about 100 posts. What I want to know is when the whole story came out, meaning the USFSA went to Michelle (and the other skaters) -- not the other way around -- about drawing up all new contracts since more things had been added to the schedule, did any of these people who were so outraged at Michelle allegedly being so greedy happen to say anything about it? Something like "yes, I should have given Michelle the benefit of the doubt" or "No, Michelle was not being greedy" or anything like that? Or did they (as I suspect) ignore the whole thing and pretend like nothing happened? Another thing that bothered me was last spring, when someone wrote a report about meeting the skaters at Hershey's. This person was very nice towards all the skaters until he or she got to Michelle. Then this person began bashing Michelle because Michelle only signed a few autographs and then gave a "lame excuse" that she wanted to get to the arena early because she wanted to get ready for the competition. Then this person threw in the "Michelle snubbed poor little girl that waited for hours and hours" to make her look even worse. Now earlier in this person's report, he or she had reported on other skaters that left the hotel even earlier than Michelle, didn't sign any autographs and didn't give any explanation to the fans. What? No little girls waited hours for those skaters?? Now is it me, or was this person unfair to Michelle? Or course when some posters pointed that out, then this persons defenders decided to pick on Michelle for another thing. She didn't sit the the kiss and cry since the very beginning of the competition (and who else did? maybe 2 people? Everyone went to the K&C after they skated and since Michelle was the last skater, she was the last person there.), her coach and parents were at the competition with her and this apparently makes her a "diva". From what I heard, Richard Callaghan was also there, and I'm totally sure that 13/14 year olds NNN and Sarah Hughes were there without any guardians! Then they began bashing the amount of applause Michelle got, saying that it made Maria B. feel bad that she had just beat Michelle at Worlds and they weren't giving her the respect she was due. Excuse me for thinking that maybe they were applauding the skating and not whatever medals they have. Michelle skated great and from what I remember, Maria's performance wasn't anything to write home about. Frankly, it seems to me that some people will go over Michelle with a fine tooth comb looking for things to criticize her for, and if they can't find anything, then they make it up. Now am I out of line by saying any of these things? I think not.

[Googoo]

Oh ha ha! Littlepebbles that person sounds like such a moron! Maybe we should start a stupidest things ever said about MK thread! I have to add that at FSW, ironically, someone said that you can see the effort on MK's face and body I guess when she is jumping (meanwhile we all acknowledge that she makes it look effortless!) Oh btw at the outcast thread I posted "I'm an outcast because I loooove Michelle Kwan. Yes love her-- and I think she's the best skater ever!"

[littlepebbles1]

People can say that Michelle and her skating is nothing or it sucks or whatever, but how many young skaters are imitating Tara or Maria B. or a lot of other skaters? There you are -- THE SKATERS HAVE SPOKEN. Hey Teddy! Yep, I feel better. In fact I feel good! I wish more people were here to read my rant! LOL

[littlepebbles1]

Number one can be that excerpt that Andrea posted. First of all, look at the first thing this person said -- "perfection goddess"? So this person is saying that not only is Michelle perfection, she's a goddess? Well, well, and people complain about her fans calling her an angel or thinking she is perfect. I hope those same people will be jumping on this person, since a goddess is a higher being than an angel. Next, "make her realize she is not all that"? Seems kind of redundant to me. I have never gotten the impression from MK that she thinks she's all that. Yes, she has confidence in herself and yes, she knows what her abilities are, but I doubt she is conceited about those things. Not to mention that the statement negates the perfection goddess thing. Anyone who is a goddess and perfect is all that, IMO. This poster complimented Michelle and didn't know it! LOL Next!

[Shallah]

Thanks for all the positive responses to my rant :-) Most of the time I try to ignore silly put-downs of Michelle but everyonce in a while I have to blow off some steam. Most of the reasons people have for disliking MK are so illogical and silly to me. I have no problem with people who simply don't care for her skating but some people dislike (and even hate her) for winning too much, for her consistancy taking all the fun out of a competition (heard alot of that last season), for the media paying too much attention to her (like she is in control of newspapers and the like), I have even been told that her father is in cahoots with Christine Brennan to ruin Tara in some way(I think Brennan has a really bad case of hero worship normally seen in young kids). It really is sad that some people's rantings against Michelle drive people who do like her away from message boards or make them keep quite for fear of being flamed.

[Sampson]

I think if you look closely at the pic of Jennifer Kirk supposedly doing a Charolotte, it looks a lot more like an illusion spin to me. I'll have to see her program, but I kind of think she's not doing this move. Sampson

[sw10025a]

Regarding the MK bashing, I know that in some cases its disturbing, unfair, petty, mean and beyond the pale, but if you let them upset you, they win. There will always be people who hate success, dislike those who are richer, more talented and beloved than themselves, and who feed off negativity because it is the only way they can feel better than themselves (geez, almost sounds like it belongs in the Maria B. thread, but I won't go there). Slough it off. Its not worth the energy or attention to deal with these people and their comments. Or look at it another way: all of these people wouldn't be spending so much time spewing venom at Michelle if she weren't the best figure skater in the world. No one would expend so much energy dissing a mediocre skater, barring stupid comments or bad behavior (MB or TH). As long as they keep flinging serious mud, it just proves how great she is, so as far as I'm concerned, LONG LIVE THE BILE!!! Regarding all the copying of Michelle that has been going on, this is hardly a new phenomenon. Between 1993 and 1996, for example, Michelle used to do a beautiful double axel where she held the landing edge and raised her free leg up in a sort of backwards spiral. Almost immediately, a whole legion of little girls started doing the same thing. I also noticed about that time that Kristi Yamaguchi started doing the same thing with her triple flip. Now Kristi may have done it before, but I don't remember it, and it could be a coincidence, but. . .Then Michelle started doing the Y spin, and lo and behold, the next year, Chen Lu shows up with a less proficient version in her Take 5 SP, and they've been cropping up in various permutations. I don't remember a single skater doing them before MK, and now variations are everywhere. Last year, Michelle did a catch foot spin in one competition and this year, I'm seeing a whole lot more of them, just at the Keri competition. Now the Charlotte is being copied to various degrees of success. Next year it'll be forward scratch spins or the charlotte into that beautiful backward spiral position. The year after that, it'll be something else. Michelle, Frank and Lori Nichols will always be coming up with something new and different that others will copy. Not only that, but there have been a legion of little girls who have been skating to the same or similar music. I can't tell you how many little Salomes and Sheherezades I've seen skating around -- I think at last year's Evening of Champions there was one who had a nearly identical costume, only in red. Naomi Nari Nam seems to be making a career out of cultivating the Kwan comparison by repeatedly using the same music (Rondo Capriciosso, Rach 3, etc.). If Michelle inspires these kids, particularly Americans, to choose classical or operatic music over movie soundtracks, if her example encourages them to think about presentation, flow, connection, details, position, line, and choreography, then I'm all for it, despite the inevitable copycat sprees that ensue, and all the better for the USFSA's prospects in the future. Sooner or later these young girls are going to grow up and want to establish their *own* artistic identities, but in the meantime, who better to emulate ?