I received a reply from Philip Hersh

[kwanette]

The following is his response to my comments on his article...."This is a one-time only answer. Your sentiments are nice, and Michelle is a terrific young woman, and I agree with your feelings about how she handled defeat in an article after the 98 OG. But all that has nothing to do with the completely sporting question of who is the better skater. It was Lipinski in Nagano, where she beat a flawless Kwan. It was Slutskaya in Lyon (all seven judges in the decisive free skate) where she clobbered a flawed Kwan. Artists can't stand still either. Michelle has not progressed technically since 95, when she did 3T-3T, or artistically since 98 (short) and 96(long). Salome remains the artistic ne plus ultra of her career." Guess he put me in my place. What do you think?

[mano]

SP's: Romanza, Dream of Desdemona, Rach, Fate of Carmen, A Day in the Life LP's: Salome, Taj Mahal, Lyra Angelica, Ariane, Red Violin...Hmmmnnn Hilarious, what else does he want Kwan to do artistically, jump rope while balancing on top of a barrel on ice. I'm at a loss. Sounds like he wants Kwan to BRANCH out too. I'm telling you, MK should skate to Elton John's The B**** is Back in his honor.

[NicoleM]

Um, I was going to reply, but the bp's WAY too high right now. Maybe tomorrow...

[AYS]

I used to think he was just a typical journalist, looking for a sellable headline. Now I know he just doesn't know what he's looking at, as far as artistry in skating is concerned.

[littlepebbles1]

Too bad he thinks his opinion is fact. Also too bad he couldn't even bother to get the non-opinion facts right. (re '95 technical) It doesn't say much for his journalistic integrity. By the way, I would love for my "worse nightmare" to be getting a silver medal at GPF. That's a darn good life!

[AYS]

full of it, or was just really annoyed by kwannette's e-mail, I think. Juxtapose that answer to Kwanette with the article he wrote covering Skate America: <A HREF=http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/main/article/0,2669,SAV-9911010129,FF.html >http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/main/article/0,2669,SAV-9911010129,FF.html </A>

[AYS]

"Kwan performed her short program at the standard of combined technical and artistic mastery no other woman can match..."

[KeithB]

Mr. Hersh's remarks remind be of certain pedantic musicologists who refer to Beethoven's "Pastoral" symphony as a mere breathing spell between the supposedly more inspired odd-numbered symphonies. I could say a lot more, but many of you have said it just as well as I could have, if not better. Keith

[aehodman]

...with skaters I like for some reason! He also used to heavily critique Chris Bowman in the late 80s and early 90s, while he was an amateur. While Chris was never a skater at MK's level (he never won Worlds or was the most dominant skater in his time), and he certainly had his share of personal problems, he brought a lot of fans joy with his carefree and, well, "hamming it up" way of skating. (I always like to think of Chris as the one who paved the way for skaters like Phillipe Candeloro to be truly outrageous and flirty.) :) Too bad the MK Forum doesn't have a budget, because what would be most fitting would be forus to take about, oh, say, a 1/4 of a page ad and let Kwanette write a critique of HIS column in his own newspaper! That would serve him right.

[Buffy]

AEHodman - ITA!!!! That would be too funny!!! Although I don't like his article, I do have to agree to some extent with his reply to Kwanette. I agree that Salome is probably the peak of Michelle's career and she hasn't moved up that much technically since. At least with jumps, that is. I think program wise Lyra Angelica is as sound as Salome, so she has in NO WAY gone down, but I do have to agree that she has not gone up. Let's face it, whether we like the reasoning of it or not, Michelle will probably need to up her technical side to stay at the top. The ladies falling on the more difficult jumps won't fall forever and we have seen too many times before that artistry isn't always the deciding factor. Kwanette, I am so impressed that you attempted to put him in his place a little!! Journalists are not always my favorite people!! I am glad you stood up to him!

[Brian]

I think to say that Salmoe was MK's artistic peak is ridiculous. I think DOD, Taj Mahal, Rach, and Lyra show great improvement in terms of choreography and relation to the music. I agree that MK has been at the same place technically since 95-96 season, but to say she has not improved her artistry/presentation/line/carriage, etc is ridiculous. I think Phil Hersh expects MK to have a dramatic makeover like with Salome, every single season!

[Googoo]

ITA Brian. What does this guy have to do with/know about skating? That Salome comment is SOOOO ridiculous! LOL!

[Ziggy Stardust]

I agree with Mano. What does he want her to do? Do a little clown on the ice while balancing an elephant on her head?¿? People are entitled to their opinions, but I strongly disagree when Hersh said Salome was her artisitic peak. The judges obviously didn't think so, when they gave her all those 6.0's at the '98 Nationals when she skated Lyra Angelica. When it gets to it, it's all about the jumps. I am really starting to resent how this sport seems to be revolving more around the jumps. People can deny this, but hey if you look at it, what's easier to score? The footwork or expression to the music or the triple/triples?? Also, the jumps are what draw in the audience who aren't normally figure skating fans. I think that's why T. Lipinski is considered 'user-friendly', well at least in my eyes. For people who know zip about skating, can look at her and sit down and watch. The bright costumes, cute music==user friendly. I think this Philip Hersh is one of those people. He obviously knows what he's talking about, but he seems the type that likes to be obviously 'entertained.' I'm glad to say, that Michelle is not a skater in that catergory. You actually sit down and think about what she's doing on the ice. She hasn't put on a Philip Hersh program since Salome really. I agree though that Michelle hasn't really topped techically since Salome though. That's when she was a little jumping bean though. I like the more mature skaters. In my opinion, the older the violin, the sweeter the music. People like Hersh ruffle my feathers.

[kwanette]

I am an insignificant servant of the Goddess of Kwan...AYS...thanks for the SA article...I had forgotten about that one. he really contradicted himself....I didn't really stand up to him, just gave my views...on his worst nightmare comment and on Carol Heiss. I am flattered that he took the time to response. As much as I enjoy when Christine Brennan sings MK's praises, I wrote to her re:Tanya Harding in response to her saying that maybe TH was what the sport of skating needed.Off subject...but point CB never responded....Again, I have no problem with anyone's criticism of or suggestion for MK's JUMPING difficulty...artistry??? NAH, can't handle that.....

[Googoo]

So Kwanette will you e-mail him back then?

[kwanette]

Yet, it would be nice to remind him of his lovely SA article...what do you think?

[AYS]

kwannette- Don't waste your time! Sounds like he feels pretty strongly about the issue. Basically he's a "what have you done for me lately" guy, which certainly has its place in sports. The main problem I have with it is that the "what have you done for me lately with jumps" attitude is creating a lot of revisionist history with regard to Kwan's artistic merit. My view is to forget him and the other naysayers, and sit back and be a fan. I hope she can prove them *all* wrong. If MK puts in a terrific, technically strong, winning performance at Worlds, it will be interesting to see what he has to say about it. I'll be rooting!!

[Rene]

I can handle when people critique Michelle's skating FAIRLY. Again, she is held to a MUCH DIFFERENT STANDARD THAN ANY OTHER SKATER HAS EVER BEEN!!!!!Her programs are better than anyone else's EVERY YEAR! It may not be your taste, but I don't see how you can argue that point! If you are only counting 3 jumps, I can totally understand his point about not advancing technically since 1996, but there are only so many triples you can do. Maybe she should have only done 5 triples in 1996, then 6 triples in 1997 then 7 triples for Nagano. See, she would have been getting better tech. Or maybe she should have been falling every year so when she did them all it would be better than the year before.DUH! Also, lets look at her other elements other than 3 jumps. Is her Charlotte, spiral, layback, footwork,Kwan spin, spread eagle, falling leaf, ina bauer better than 1996? I don't know about you but I can't for the life of me understand why these don't get some credit for being technical!!! It looks pretty physical and tech to me. I wouldn't waste my time writing him back either. ITA with Keith, he sounds like a POMPOS A** to me , too (I can read between the lines Keith LOL)

[Beth2000]

Well let's also let him know....and please don't anyone take this wrong, that the ones that have turned pro do not typically keep up with their jumps! Also, and again please don't let anyone take this wrong TL still is not very good artistically, this is my opionion only. I still say that MK is the best artistically all the way around. Look back at the 98 Olympics it was MK that had the highest scores aritistically not TL. MK can and probably will start throwing in 3/3's, she knows exactly what she has to do. I guess I should quit typing cuz' I am starting to get frustrated with idiots like that journalist that doesn't have a clue about skating.

[GinnySmith]

Kwanette--Thanks for taking the time to write to Hersh and for writing posts that are great summaries of the way I feel about all of this. Now, I have to vent and get some pent up feelings out regarding the way the press covers figure skating. Here goes...... Hersh and other's who write about figure skating JUST DON'T GET IT!!! I read the article and actually don't think it is a terrible slam of Michelle. However, I am sick of the way that figure skating is covered in general. Figure Skating is unlike any other major popular sport. Reporters of figure skating continue to apply the same formula to reporting figure skating as they do to football, basketball, prize fighting, tennis, and golf. This is dumb. When you think about it, this is ludicrous! What is worse, is that these so-called intelligent human beings don't even realize what they are doing. They are themselves grossly incompetent in reporting on the subject of figure skating. They certainly don’t win any medals for good reporting. They are total losers! They don’t get it that figure skating has first, second and third place. Coming in second is a WIN in figure skating, not a loss. The skaters who come in second and third get recognized and WIN medals. Silver and bronze medals are GOOD things! Why does the press treat silver and bronze medals with such disdain??? Because they just don’t get it! Figure skating is the only, and I repeat, only major, popular sport where the outcome of a competition is determined and completely controlled by a panel of judges. All other major competitive sports have crystal clear metrics of who wins, and who loses. The win is totally based on superior execution of one team over another, not whether the umpires thought one team had more spark or artistry on a given day. When was the last time you heard of the New York Yankees being granted a win and “held up” by the umpires in scoring a baseball game, because they were world champions the year before? While there are some clear metrics in figure skating, such as a technical short program, where there are clear guidelines of deductions if an element is missed, there is the ever-elusive rating of "presentation or artistry". What does this metric really mean? I don’t think there is a clear, purely objective answer to this question. Artistry/presentation is a personal and subjective preference. There certainly is no fair way to measure it. It is true that there are umpires, referees, and line judges, who from time to time make bad calls. However, for the most part, good/bad calls balance out over the course of a game and rarely do the referees have total control over the outcome of the game. You either hit the ball or your don't. At the end of 9 innings, the team with the most runs wins. And, by the way, the winning team can look pretty ugly out there and still win in spite of what the umpires think. But I digress...my point is, reporters of figure skating continue to write using paradigms and clichés that are appropriate for other sports but not for figure skating. This is dumb, really dumb. While the following examples are not all in the article in question, here are a few recent terms that I've heard in reference to Michelle and her figure skating at the GFP: "Rematch" - Michelle, don't forget to bring your boxing gloves to the rink next time you skate against Irina or Maria. If you don’t win the gold, then after the long program, you will change into your boxing attire and go 15 rounds in the parking lot with the winner…. "Clobbered" - Yes, Irina did "clobber" Michelle during practice at the 1998 Worlds when they accidentally collided while skating backwards. "Avenge her loss..." - I'm sure Michelle lays awake at night figuring out how she is going to do this. "Redeem herself..." - Oh, Puleeze!!! Unfortunately, fans of Michelle and figure skating will have to endure this torture until some bright individual wakes up and realizes that this is figure skating, not prize fighting, basketball or football. Oh please, whoever you are, where ever you are, we need you NOW! I can't stand this much longer...

[kwanette]

Great post....

[GinnySmith]

Thank you, kwanette...

[maryada]

Too bad Mr Hersh doesn't know what we know and what we are reminded of every time littlepebbles posts---That "winners come and go but Legends are Forever"---Irina is a winner, Maria was a winner, but Michelle is a Legend and that will never change--no matter what happens from here on in. (in spite of Mr. Hersh)

[Liz D.]

Philip Hersh doesn't know what he's talking about.

[ChicaRealidad]

Unfortunately I do think there is some truth and basis for Hersh's remarks. He said essentially the same thing that D. Button did last at the last Keri Lotion event....the he thought Michelle was stalled technically & artistically. And unfortunately I tend to agree with both of them. Michelle is the best skater around, but she is stalled. Be it because of school, too many demands or her time or whatever. I think it was Tracy Wilson on CBS, who said that great artists have a unique ability to reinvent themselves and that she'd only seen two acts capable of that feat -- T&D and Scott Hamilton. Well, hopefully Michelle can become the third. She needs to do for her skating what she did with her hair -- just close her eyes and take a chance. And no, I don't ever want to see our girl shaking her "bon bon" to Ricky Martin or anything like that. I just think that she's capable of much more growth than she's shown this year.

[SJB]

Hersh sounded a little defensive to me, kwanette--maybe you pricked his bubble a bit? Cuased him a moment of guilt? These blanket statements about how Michelle hasn't progressed, next to "Kwan performed her short program at the standard of combined technical and artistic mastery no other woman can match" make me conclude with regret that Hersh has fallen victim to the epidemic of "journalism" writing, in which no facts are allowed to interfere with crafting a more catchy, entertaining story, and no overstatement is too great be used to punch up the prose. The "no progress in technique" remark also leads me to conclude that even I, who hasn't skated in 25 years, who has never seen a live skating performance, and whose only knowledge of technique comes from a few years of reading message boards, know a lot more about figure skating technique than this writer does. And the "artistic peak in '96"? I am on very sure ground here, I have done a lot of time over the last 30+ years at live ballet performances and have seen the best of artists come and go, and, believe me, Michelle has always just gone up artisically from year to year. She's better now than ever, and she's still moving forward. Chica, I think that the problem is not that there's no basis for Hersh's opinions, though I would beg to disagree with some of them. It's the sweeping exaggeration and overstatement, all done to make the story more colorful. If he'd said "Michelle hasn't added to her jump difficulty since (whenever), and now Irina is really ahead of her on that", I would agree totally. But "no technical progress" is exaggerated to the point of being just plain wrong. BTW, what were Mr. Button's exact comments at last year's Keri? I thought I had that on tape, but must have missed it.

[ykchan]

I read both this thread and the one with the original Hersh article with great interest - especially being a graduate journalism student myself who is going to enter the work force this fall (the question is, which work force and where? but that is a whole different story). I think the problem extends beyond figure skating coverage, it is sports journalism in general. I had the great opportunity to cover the U.S. Open tennis championships last September, and I had to say I was appalled by the behavior of the U.S. media. There were all these people twice my age thinking that they were complete hotshots (okay, some of them are pretty well-known names, but if we're both standing in line waiting for the same lunch, heck, we're both in the same boat). I can't say for TV because they were in a different section, but print reporters were almost nowhere to be found. Sometimes I'd be the only one at press seating areas, other times one of like three people attending press conferences. And why should they show up? Everything gets typed up and photocopied on press conferences for them to enjoy and regurgitate before deadlines. I can't say for figure skating because I've never covered a skating event (yet), but I think sports journalism these days has gotten lazier and lazier. About a decade back, I remember reading all these great articles about the business aspects of tennis (okay, so I'm a huge tennis fan), and now it's just fluffy results. So when I looked at the Hersh article, I could tell two things: (1) He's been covering skating for a while and remembers past results. That's a good thing. (2) He tried to make a big deal out of a rare loss with the most active verbs and generalizations you could throw in, backed up by his comments to Kwanette. That's a bad thing. Journalists are--or at least they SHOULD be--always taught to be objective. You are not supposed to bring opinions into your writing. Sometimes it's hard to do that, but at least editors should pick up on this. But more often than not it all gets overlooked. I had the privilege of meeting Christine Brennan very briefly last fall. (While I do not always agree with what she has to say, I do respect her for bringing figure skating coverage to the forefront.) As she signed my Edge of Glory and realized that the second half of my hyphenated first name is Michelle's surname, she immediately said, "Oh, Michelle should have won. She definitely should have won the gold medal." --- Not even one minute after meeting me, and she knew I was a student journalist! I know some fans have talked about her unfair treatment of Tara in the press, and this kind of validated it. Before I get any more long-winded, I really do hope that sports journalism will change. Some people said here that Mr. Hersh doesn't know what he is talking about, and to a certain extent that is true. The way it works in the newspaper business is this: claw and scrape your way to a major metropolitan daily newspaper as fast as you can. Paper will have openings for specific types of reporting, so someone with, for example, business reporting background might want to make a switch. The paper might say, "Well, you have no sports reporting background, but you've several solid years of REPORTING background. Do you want to join us anyway?" Heck, if it's The New York Times, the reporter will leap for it, even if he or she has no iota of sports. Case in point: there was a tennis reporter for The Washington Post whom my entire family couldn't *stand* because she always dissed my fave Michael Chang and made comments or observations that were completely unfair. What does she do now for the Post? Entertainment news. It doesn't always work that way, but it happens more often than not, and that's why I don't want to become a newspaper reporter. But, alas, that is another story. :)

[AYS]

Once again, I completely agree with SJB! BTW, at the recent Keri Lotion USA vs World, DB commented that she wasn't branching out or creating something new with Hands. That is probably true with her exhibition/proam numbers, but I gather Hersh was talking about her sp and lp output. You may not prefer Kwan's stylistic preferences, but to say she hasn't grown artistically since '98 and possibly '96 is unbelieveable to me. Her power, sureness, line, refinement, body movement, the new choreographic elements are so beyond where she was, even a couple of years ago. Yes, for many of the elements you can't say, yes she's added that 3/3 - they are explorations in body movement...essentially dance on the ice. I shocked myself earlier this season by looking at her performance of Lyra Angelica from Nationals (which I hadn't watched since right after Nationals) in comparison to the sophistication and power of Skate America's RV performance this year. I actually found the difference just as striking as the change in her famous '95-'96 transition. People were complaining they wanted to see something more upbeat and jazzy, and she's given us ADITL this season-a total departure in style for her. Yes, the fact that she hasn't increased her 3/3 content (and indeed wasn't consistent with the 3/3 this season so far) is a very legitimate beef - and probably cost her the GPF title. But to attack her *competitive* programs on artistic grounds other than those competely accounted for by taste (ie. obscure music, angst-filled rather than upbeat, intricacy rather than simplicity - apparently simplicity one of Irina's advantages according to DB during the GPF), I can't agree at all. And it just so happens that her style of programs are very much to my taste, so I certainly wouldn't agree with those who attack her work on that basis, LOL.

[GinnySmith]

Excellent assessments, everyone. Thanks. And, ykchan, it is refreshing to see that there are signs of intelligent life in a future journalist....

[Brian]

I agree that MK has not increased her technical difficulty since the 95-96 season, if you only measure technical improvement in terms of jumps. But I vehemently disagree with the statement that MK has not progressed artistically since 96' Salome. I agree that great artists reinvent themselves, in the PRO ranks not AMATEUR. Scott Hamilton did not reinvent himself in the amateur ranks, he did the same long program for three of four years! I think some of the expectations placed on MK are totally unfair.

[SJB]

that the very first thing you learn about figure skating when you start to watch it carefully is that "technical difficulty" comprises a LOT more than jumps. I'm surprised that a journalist who has covered skating for so long would be so ignorant. Actually, I don't think he's ignorant of the elementary fact that I stated above. I think that he's sloppy and careless with his language, which gives his prose imprecise meaning. The very eptitome of a good writer is that s/he can express their meaning clearly and precisely---they are supposed to be masters at the job of conveying sharp images and clearly-expressed thoughts in prose. So, to say "technical difficulty" when he means "jump difficulty" is a glaring violation of good writership.

[Googoo]

Chicarealidad-- out of curiosity, you don't think ADITL is an example of MK taking a chance? I mean it is an upbeat, jazzy, sassy number, which she hasn't done before. When you say you want MK to show "more growth than she has this year", artistically anyway, I really think you should give an example of how. If you can't think of a way than how can you really say that.

[ChicaRealidad]

GooGoo, no I don't really see ADITL as Michelle taking a BIG chance. I see it as her taking baby steps. Yes, it's different for her, but not that different. It's not as if she was skating to a hard-edged version of ADITL. Jeff Beck's version is more easy-going and less strident than the Beatles' original version. That may be because it doesn't have the lyrics, but I just don't find the Beck version to be that much of a departure musically for her. It's a very pretty number, but it's just not as difficult in the footwork as her programs usually are. Take the circular footwork sequence. It's little more than a series of 3 turns, isn't it? There's not much changing of edges or toe work at all. It's pretty straight-foward. Michelle is capable of much more. Others have commented on the lack of footwork difficulty in ADITL, so I know it's not just me. As for giving an example of how I see Michelle stalled this year. Well, take ADITL. She's got choreography in that program that she used in Carmen last year. TRV is a bit more of a musical departure for her because it's not a syncopated rhythm. The music is very choppy. That I'll agree to. BUT, she's still using the same order for her jumps. For the most part she's still using the same entrances into her jumps. Her spins are better, BUT they're the same combination spins she's been using for 3 or 4 years. Her spins are still slow compared to some of the other skaters. The choreography is different, but it's a natural progress of "different" and not something totally out of left-field or that you would say is "un-Kwan-like". I'm not saying that Michelle hasn't made some progress, but I just don't think she's making enough progress to stay head-and-shoulders above the competition. And that was proved at the GPF. That's an example of Michelle not closing her eyes and taking a chance. The finals really didn't mean that much, did they? They weren't a make it or break it competition. And because of the situation with MB you'd think the Kwan people would know that she wasn't going to be much of a threat. However, I think Michelle skated too cautiously in each of the rounds. Growth to me means more than adding triples and faster or different spins. It means taking a chance when there's nothing on the line but proving something to yourself. The GPF would have been a great place for Michelle to practice her 3t/3t in a competion environment, but she omitted it in each of the two LPs. That's not growth. Michelle uses it when she thinks she's going to HAVE to do it, but she doesn't use it just for the practice of doing it in competition. That would be growth in that it shows how confident she is that she does it when she doesn't have to. Michelle does lots of little things that she doesn't have to, I'd just like to see her doing some big things she doesn't always have to do. Like Slutskaya did. Her two 3/3 combos weren't perfect, but she took a BIG chance and did them anyway. Slutskaya had to know that there was a very good chance that she would fall on those two combos, but she tried them anyway. Slutskaya has made a lot of growth this year and it showed in the confidence that she had to use those two combos when she hadn't used them in the two previous rounds. Her combos were harder than Michelle's yet Michelle left hers out. Was that a miscalculation on her part and she just didn't think she'd need them against Slutskaya because she'd beaten her in the other 2 rounds? Or did she just not know that Slutskaya had been practicing...and landing... those combos? Either way, it was detrimental to her because now it looks to the other competitors and the media that Michelle isn't technically up to snuff and that she's beatable. Which, of course, makes a much better story for them than "Kwan Wins Again". So basically I guess I'm giving Slutskaya credit for GIANT "Mother May I" steps, and Michelle credit for making baby "Mother May I" steps.

[Rene]

I don't think Irina took a BIG chance at GPF. She couldn't lose if she fell 7 times. She was in 2nd place coming into the final, she would stay the same or move up. She didn't do 2 3/3's during the previous rounds, where she DID have something to lose. Did anybody else see Irina last year? It's funny I hear so many people talk about Irina's growth in presentation this year. I think she changed alot LAST year. She just wasn't as consistent on her jumps. As for Michelle miscalculating about leaving out her 3t/3t, I would think that she WANTED to land them, it just didn't happen for whatever reason. I think one of the reason's Michelle gets so "tight" in comp and skates causiously is because she is always expected to be perfect. If she doesn't land everything it's "second rate". Nobody else has that burden. If Michelle did Irina's program you may hear, "great jumps, but where's the rest of her program? She's really lagging artistically this year" Maria and Irina are almost expected to fall, because of their track record. When they don't , when they land 6 or 7 triples it's...OMG!!!! When Michelle does 6 or 7 triples it's "business as usual" and really(no offensene to Irina) I didn't see anything else in her program that wasn't in her short program. Nothing. "A great program is easy to judge if you take the jumps out of it and it still stands by itself" -Kurt Browning

[SJB]

that we should read Deetlebug's thoughts on the "Ariane Jinxed" thread. An entirely new perspective .

[ChicaRealidad]

Rene, I have to disagree with you about Irina Slutskaya. She did take a big chance in the final. You said she was either going to be #1 or #2, but the same could be said of Michelle. Michelle came out and skated cautiously and slowly at first. Irina came out with both barrels blazing. To you it may have seemed that she had sewn up #1 or #2, but obviously to her it wasn't about placing second to Michelle again. She wanted to win and since she was skating after Michelle she already knew what she'd have to do to win. She could've gone out there and done 7 single triples and as long as she landed them her technical scores would have been about equal to Michelle's, but she knew she had to skate better than Michelle to win. And for Irina you have to admit that's a big deal. She's coming off a season that was so bad she was contemplating retirement. Yet she came out in the GPF and went for broke. She knew she'd either fall flat on her butt or land those combos. That's a big chance for someone who hadn't been using those combos in the previous rounds. So, I'm just going to have to differ with you on that issue and let it go at that.

[sw10025]

I agree that Hersh sounded defensive and IMO a little hostile. I suppose yours was not the only pro-Kwan missive he received (a good many were probably much more indignant and possibly nasty to boot). The fact that he felt the need to declare that it was a one time only reply suggests that some have gotten rather argumentative with him. But I wouldn't waste my time sending him any more messages if I were you. He doesn't sound like he's particularly interested in what readers or figure skating fans think. I'll preface this by saying I don't know exactly what you said to him, but his response seemed IMO to be pretty much a very terse, offhand, "I'm right, you're wrong, now go away response". I doubt any of us could change his mind any more than his comments are going to change ours. Not that his apparently very flexible opinion matters, anyway. The one thing I find odd about his comment, however, is that he separates out Salome (96) and Rach 3 (98) as her high points, as it were, and then says Salome was her artistic peak. Excuse me, but does anybody else find it odd that he separates her SPs and LPs into different categories like that? Rach 3 was an incredibly well choreographed, artistic program, and whether it was an SP or a LP is irrelevant. If he himself cited her 98 SP as an artistic achievement, than how can he say she hasn't progressed since 96? This is not to say that some programs, for whatever reasons, tangible and intangible, are going to be more successful than others. That's inevitable, particularly when a skater comes up with a masterpiece like Salome or Rach3. OK, so Fate of Carmen and Lamento d'Ariane weren't quite up to the level of Rach3 and Lyra Angelica, they weren't quite as brilliant and emotive, but that doesn't mean they weren't good, well choreographed, well presented programs. I can't think of a single skater who hasn't had some misses as well as hits. You aren't going to hit it out of the ballpark everytime. I think that to a great extent Michelle's own success and reputation is an albatross around her neck. [Although I have to insert here that I *think* the Dick Button comment during the hands program was aimed solely at that specific program, and was not intended as a comment about stagnation in general.] If any other skater came up with any of her recent programs and performances, they would have been applauded for their efforts and the sophistication and completeness of their programs. Her programs are still miles better than those of her competition. If any other skater was competing at the top level while attending a major university full time, the press would be singing their praises for their ability to successfully juggle, whereas for Kwan college is the lurking menace hovering over her to sabotage her skating career. If any other skater finished second, it wouldn't be "settling" and it would be awarded the just recognition it deserves, instead of being perceived as a failure. Its an absolutely amazing accomplishment that Michelle has been at the top of eligible figure skating [and before someone jumps down my throat, by the "top" I mean finishing in the top 3 in international comps since some time in 95 and generally, being recognized within skating circles as one of the top eligible ladies] for so long, even as many of her erstwhile competitors have disappeared (either voluntarily or involuntarily) from the eligible ranks. The fact that she would even contemplate staying eligible through 2006 (when she could make a lot more money elsewhere) says a lot about her willingness to train hard, her love for her sport, competitive fires, etc. Its just unfortunate that she isn't seeming to get the kind of respect and credit for her accomplishments that she perhaps deserves. That being said, I will once again concede that I was wrong when I said she didn't need to upgrade her jump difficulty until next year. Obviously, although I believed Irina was going to be her most serious competitor, with all her lutz difficulties, I didn't think she was going to get her jump combos together until next season. I was wrong. Obviously, Michelle is going to have to do more combos and soon. Although I can appreciate the subtleties, depth and complexities of programs like TRV, perhaps some of the judges and the audience can't or won't. I'm not suggesting that MK start doing Malaguena, Giselle or the Nutcracker like the rest of the herd, but I do think that in their effort to choose music that's never been skated to before, to come up with an artistic vision, Team Kwan may be becoming a little too abstract in their tastes and may be eliminating some perfectly wonderful music. For next season, or definitely by 2002, I'd like to see Michelle skate to music which is less subtle, but which has greater dynamism, emotion and drama than some of her more recent selections.

[Rene]

I didn't say it wasn't a BIG DEAL for Irina. I said it wasn't a BIG CHANCE. Two different things. I still don't see what she had to lose. Like you said, coming off a bad season(I really liked her programs) and being 2nd to Michelle at GPF's wouldn't even be a loss. It was a win-win situation for Irina.

[Banannak]

Rene - ITA with what you said, and Irina herself siad in her interview that "she had nothing to lose". It will be another story entirely at Worlds. That is not to say that I think Michelle should have won...I don't. But I also don't think she is over. She needs to change unfortunately. Something different is always more appealing.