JohnZimmerman on ladies final - disagrees with Silver & Bronze medalists

[Shallah]

http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/torino2006/figure_skating/news?slug=jz-ladiesfree022306&prov=yhoo&type=lgns


To miss the first jump in a program is one thing; to miss the second is another matter altogether. The more mistakes a skater makes, the harder it is to refocus. But Sasha didn't let the program get away from her; she didn't give anything up. That is the mark of a true champion.

Although she got through the free skate, Sasha lacked the speed she demonstrated in the short program. Her overall performance lacked energy, and her spiral sequence was painfully slow. Sasha has wonderful flexibility, but flexibility alone doesn't equal good skating skills. I thought her program component scores were ridiculously high, given the mistakes and the speed issues.

Like Sasha, Irina Slutskaya skated with heavy expectations weighing on her shoulders. As the last skater in the final flight, the long wait didn't help either. Irina started strongly, landing a huge Lutz and three-jump combination. But after doubling her second flip, she went down on the triple loop, one of her most consistent jumps. You could tell she was completely shocked by the fall and knew the Olympic gold was no longer hers.

snip

Fumie Suguri of Japan had an amazing performance. She nailed some very difficult jumps and skated with a light etherealness reminiscent of Yuka Sato. The judges didn't reward her with the marks she deserved for what was essentially a clean program.

snip

The judging left me a little perplexed. Shizuka was the deserving winner, but I'm not sure if the flawed performances of Sasha or Irina deserved to be placed above a clean Fumie. Each of these three could have won the gold with clean performances. Had they all skated perfectly, the results would've been put under a microscope. The judges are fortunate that Shizuka was such a decisive winner, and her win was a satisfying end to two weeks of fantastic competition.

[lasaslav]

I agree, John! Good for you for saying this comments re: Fumie. I'm sure she's surprised, too, that she didn't end up on the podium after such a beautiful skate.

I wonder if Sandra B was right that Fumie's program just didn't have the complicated in betweens that the other skaters seemed to have. Overall, I just loved Fumie's skate and she has to be happy with that, at least.

[lasaslav]

Although, I could do without the last sentence of this paragraph:

"I knew Sasha Cohen was in trouble after she went down a couple of times during the warmup. Her confidence was completely shaken, and you could see it in her face before her music even started. Her expression was blank, a direct contrast to Tuesday when she had a fire in her eyes. Even her former coach, Robin Wagner, said she looked scared."

Who cares what Robin thinks? Obviously, she was Sylvia Fontana's coach for the Olympics (John's wife) so that's why they probably discussed Sasha together, and look how well Sylvia performed.

I think Robin has said way too much about Sasha in the press and should just keep her mouth shut. You would never hear Frank Carroll talking about anyone that way.

[kwaniac888]

Well she looked scared and that was pretty apparent to many who watched it, including me. So I think that quote is not entirely out of place. And I think that Robin Wagner's comments were revealing as to Sasha's character and work ethic, although I understand they come from someone who might have an axe to grind.

Anyhow, I agree with Zimmerman's view that the 2nd and 3rd place winners were not necessarily the right ones.

[rubyred]

Very logical comments. Fumie deserved a medal. It seems that judges had decided that she is not the first class from the very beginning regardless of whatever she does. Sigh.

I want to send a message to Fumie...

[Kabooke]

Right with you John. :8

[kazenoyume]

Thanks. I'm glad to see a prominent skating voice express these concerns.

[Krista]

Yayyy John!! :clap well said

[uncchristine99]

Not only is the man HOTT... he's right.... painfully so.

[ceap]

Wow, good fo John for being vocal about the medalists last night. I agree with him and I just can't agree with Fumie not receiving a medal.

[cyncansurvive]

I agree too. Flexibility and 'beautiful positions' aren't the only hallmark. Her edges were especially weak last night and the spiral wobbled A LOT. So I'll still agree Fumie deserved higher scores in the SP and LP. Sasha shouldn't have medalled w/ the program and Fumie should have had a medal.

[kittyjake5]

I agree too. Flexibility and 'beautiful positions' aren't the only hallmark. Her edges were especially weak last night and the spiral wobbled A LOT. So I'll still agree Fumie deserved higher scores in the SP and LP. Sasha shouldn't have medalled w/ the program and Fumie should have had a medal.

Even Sasha was suprised that she medaled with her performance
and then to get Silver no wonder she called it a gift. Good to
hear some support for Fumie I usually never say this but
"she wuz robbed".

[Kay]

I agree with John. I actually watched the results on line and was surprised when I got home and watched Fumie's skate. Fumie's program was better than most. Oh well, the judging system needs to be worked on.

[ExoticFlower213]

Fumie should have medalled.

Irina and Sasha were *so* sloppy.

[JazDFW]

Even Sasha was suprised that she medaled with her performance
and then to get Silver no wonder she called it a gift. Good to
hear some support for Fumie I usually never say this but
"she wuz robbed".


ITA!!!! I couldn't believe they placed her 2nd. That was a travesty to Irina and Fumie. I think Fumie should have been 2nd and Irina 3rd.

[3Flutz3Lip]

I think the podium should’ve been like this:
1. Arakawa
2. Fumie
3. either Sasha or Irina

Here's why, Fumie was clean and she should have gotten her PCS that she deserved in the LP and the SP. And I agree w/ John, she did some difficult elements as well as the others.

Even though Sasha had her two falls, her program as a whole was better than IS.

The structure of IS program was blah to me and the elevator-ish music doesn't help. (what's up w/ Russian skaters using elevator music. Sokolova music also was totally boring and cheesy). Besides the fall, she also had a few balance checks on the landings of her other jumps and overall it was a bit sloppy, especially on some of the spins and the atrocious spiral sequence.

[skatesindreams]

Right on, John!

Sasha was extremely lucky to have the Silver after that performance. She seemed insecure and unsure on most of her elements, as though she were fortunate to get through them.

[KwansPrayerWarrior]

http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/torino2006/figure_skating/news?slug=jz-ladiesfree022306&prov=yhoo&type=lgns


Fumie Suguri of Japan had an amazing performance. She nailed some very difficult jumps and skated with a light etherealness reminiscent of Yuka Sato. The judges didn't reward her with the marks she deserved for what was essentially a clean program.

This is the only part I agree with :clap

[YankeesSuck01]

FINALLY!

Thank you John. It is nice to see someone stick up for Fumie.

He didn't say it but he kind of implied what I feel. It should have been Shizuka, Fumie and Irina. Sasha should have been forth

[debbwin]

FINALLY!

Thank you John. It is nice to see someone stick up for Fumie.

He didn't say it but he kind of implied what I feel. It should have been Shizuka, Fumie and Irina. Sasha should have been forth

when i read this i was gonna post....please please please someone tell YS please....and here you are- yes i'm glad he finally spoke the truth....but i agree with you YS, Sasha should have been 4th but it was close in my mind between her and irina for 3rd...Sasha looked slow and Irina looked weighed down....but John has to be given a kiss for saying that flexibility is not artistry...yipeee..finally. thanks.

[goldenkwan]

This is off the topic but is John not pairs skater anymore? John was mentioned as former us pairs skater last night.
But boy is he handsome!

[YankeesSuck01]

when i read this i was gonna post....please please please someone tell YS please....and here you are- yes i'm glad he finally spoke the truth....but i agree with you YS, Sasha should have been 4th but it was close in my mind between her and irina for 3rd...Sasha looked slow and Irina looked weighed down....but John has to be given a kiss for saying that flexibility is not artistry...yipeee..finally. thanks.

I wouldn't have been to upset to see Sasha over Irina and in third because she does do a lot of things better then Irina but she didn't do anything to merit the scores she got that night in the LP. Irina's jumps even when landed sloppy are pretty nice and high, even though she never seems to swing out of them very well.

Anyway the problem I have is how low balled Fumie was. She should have been on that podium.

[aethera]

goldenkwan, I think they meant "former" as in "former amateur". Zimmerman still skates professionally with Kyoko Ina; they're on the Stars On Ice tour.

YankeesSuck01, I agree completely. Both Cohen and Slutskaya were totally inflated in the PCS; I don't really care which of them medals. The problem is totally that Fumie didn't.

I think he's right on the money when he brings up Cohen's skating skills, and that flexibility isn't the same thing. I thought I was seeing things when the spiral seemed to just cruise in on a flat. He's astute and he's hot; what's not to love? ;)

[YankeesSuck01]

He's astute and he's hot; what's not to love? ;)

Well he is married:)

Does anyone know if he has an e-mail or a web site? I need to let him know that his comment were VERY appreciated.

[Dolphine]

ITA with John! Fumie deserved a medal.
Why doesn't ABC hire him to put him behind a microphone? He would definately contribute to a good rating! I would tune in just to see him on TV! :D

[sric]

I agree with Zimmerman, he got it right

[gatzbee]

You would never hear Frank Carroll talking about anyone that way.
lets not forget tho that carroll said at 2005 worlds during the QR that he thought MK looked terrified of the NJS.... he has kept his mouth pretty much shut to the press, but he has been quoted during a similar type of occasion.

[Fumbilicious]

Great article by John!! :clap

[malina]

i think if sasha would have fallen 2 times at the end of her program the scores may be different. story reads sasha falls twice but composed herself well enough for a silver. if she fell towards the end it would have read different. i think that may be the reason why her scores were high for 2 falls. her speed was lacking too. her spins not as fast as irina's that for sure. sasha's spins are more pleasing to the eye and irina's spins are very stong and fast but looks sloppy to me. when irina finishes her spin she looks dizzy. i think that's part of the program but it looks funny. anyone notice?

[Shallah]

You can leave a message for John at his official website's guestbook -

http://www.figureskatersonline.com/cgi-bin/guestfriend/guestbook.cgi

I don't know of any other way to contact him except for snail mail via his agent

sorry the guestbook isn't working now, don't know why.......

[Mousee24]

Finally, somebody said it... :)

[jlta]

I completely agree with John. Fumie did not get the scores she deserved in the sp and definately not in the long. I was expecting her tech scores to way above Sasha's after her skate. I was completely shocked when her scores came up. I think she was too... She had a beautiful skate and it was definately worthy of an Olympic medal..
Hopefully she can do as good at Worlds and be rewarded for doing so...

[NeverGivUp]

I totally agree with John Zimmerman.

[Eeyora]

I love him!

[kittyjake5]

For the past two weeks a local station in my
area has had a program on called the Olympic Zone.
They cover all the sports not just figure skating.
Of course tonight's show was all about Sasha,
and how she fell again, and missed the gold, but
recovered to get the Silver. One of their reporters
in Turino interviewed Brian B. briefly and asked
his opinion about the ladies free skate and he
said basically the same thing John Z. said that Shiz
deserved the gold but he was very surprised at the
Silver placement and in his opinion he would not
have Sasha in second but he did not say who he
thought should have gotten Silver.

[AMAubert]

Oh my gosh, he looks THAT good and he stands up for the wronged Fumie. There is a man who has it all.

[badhairday]

Oh my gosh, he looks THAT good and he stands up for the wronged Fumie. There is a man who has it all.

I know... lucky Silvia Fontana!

Anyway, I totally agreed with him. If this was the old system, I think that Fumie would have been on the podium.

[3axel]

The reason Fumie didn't get a medal was that she looked stiff, and had poor positions, had an artisticly weaker program, and lacked the beauty of Sasha and the power of Irina. Fumie just doesn't have style and artistry of Shizuka, Sasha, and Irina, and looks juniorish in comparison.

[magicalhaven]

Fumie might have scored better if she skated after Sasha and not Shizuka.

[Forever Loyal]

Brian Boitano was interviewed last night on Olympic Ice and he too said that he would have givent he silver to someone else. Didn't say who though.

[lynlei]

Daring the risk of being bashed by everybody else here...
I think John is wrong. I agree with judges...

I am heartbroken by Irina's bronze. Wished she got silver and Sasha bronze.

Fumie's program was so simple, she just stroked between elements which were mostly jumps, and her spiral positions were less than mediocre. Yes, she had great speed but I feel program was compensated because of the speed. She did 6.0 system program.

Both Irina and Sasha performed COP programs. While Irina was sloppy, Sasha really recovered from early mistakes and performed other elements well done.

John seems to be a really nice guy and I admire him. But he has not performed under COP and he is not coaching anybody under COP either.
His take is still 6.0 era.

[kittyjake5]

The reason Fumie didn't get a medal was that she looked stiff, and had poor positions, had an artisticly weaker program, and lacked the beauty of Sasha and the power of Irina. Fumie just doesn't have style and artistry of Shizuka, Sasha, and Irina, and looks juniorish in comparison.

In my opinion beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Sasha and
Irina looked pretty junorish to me when they fell and botched
their programs. On the other hand Fumie held her program
together, nothing juniorish about that.

[sric]

In my opinion beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Sasha and
Irina looked pretty junorish to me when they fell and botched
their programs. On the other hand Fumie held her program
together, nothing juniorish about that.

I agree, there is nothing juniorish about Fumie's interpretation and musicality. Fumie is one of the most ethereal skaters out there, and tv does not communicate her speed and freedom of movement.